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Petition to sell surplus M14s through CMP.
- Thread starter PaulD
- Start date
Do surplus M14's even exist any more? A bunch were destroyed during the Clinton years. The Army still keeps some in inventory and has used them in Iraq and Afghanistan. We sold some overseas - to Baltic countries I believe.
There were never anywhere near as many M14's made as there were M1 Carbines and Garands. Both the Garands and the carbines were made in the millions. I don't believe M14 production ever even cracked 1 million - therefore there were never that many around to be surplus in the 1st place.
And like the previous respondents said - under existing law, they are illegal to sell as they were once full auto. They can't be converted and be legal.
They could sell parts I suppose - everything but the receiver. But that is already happening. Fred - the guy who runs the Appleseed program - has been selling M14 stocks for a while now: http://www.fredsm14stocks.com/
I think all this stuff came from the M14's that the Clinton administration destroyed.
There were never anywhere near as many M14's made as there were M1 Carbines and Garands. Both the Garands and the carbines were made in the millions. I don't believe M14 production ever even cracked 1 million - therefore there were never that many around to be surplus in the 1st place.
And like the previous respondents said - under existing law, they are illegal to sell as they were once full auto. They can't be converted and be legal.
They could sell parts I suppose - everything but the receiver. But that is already happening. Fred - the guy who runs the Appleseed program - has been selling M14 stocks for a while now: http://www.fredsm14stocks.com/
I think all this stuff came from the M14's that the Clinton administration destroyed.
As mentioned above, once an MG, always an MG. Like the M16s, the M14 was a select fire rifle from the get-go. A switch was installed to make it possible to lock out the full-auto capability but it won't fly as a surplus rifle because of it.
There are many many M14s in service right now. They were squad issued rifles capable of extreme ranges (1000 yards) and used as snipers in Iraq and elsewhere. When it was discovered that the M16s and their iterations couldn't work as long-range rifles, the Army dug around and found a warehouse full of old M14 receivers and parts. These were all ressurected and assembled into rifles and are now in service (albeit not advertised) as squad issued sniper rifles. I've attached only three of hundreds of photos of the M14 at work in the middle east.
Frankly, the M14 was a terrible full-auto rifle. I've fired one and they are not fun. As a semi-auto sniper, however, they are wonderful so having one with a "civilian" receiver is tantamount to what they're using in service right now, anyway.
Rome
There are many many M14s in service right now. They were squad issued rifles capable of extreme ranges (1000 yards) and used as snipers in Iraq and elsewhere. When it was discovered that the M16s and their iterations couldn't work as long-range rifles, the Army dug around and found a warehouse full of old M14 receivers and parts. These were all ressurected and assembled into rifles and are now in service (albeit not advertised) as squad issued sniper rifles. I've attached only three of hundreds of photos of the M14 at work in the middle east.
Frankly, the M14 was a terrible full-auto rifle. I've fired one and they are not fun. As a semi-auto sniper, however, they are wonderful so having one with a "civilian" receiver is tantamount to what they're using in service right now, anyway.
Rome
In fact, the Government could sell M14s as machine guns from the CMP. They did sell some to clubs many moons ago with the selectors welded in the semi position. Could have sold all those Grease Guns that where destroyed during the Clinton years too... They just don't want to.
18 USC 922(o) allows the Government to transfer machine guns at any time.
--EasyD
The M14's (semi-auto only) that clubs had were on loan from the Government. They were never sold. They have since been recalled as they need them for maintaining the ones they have.
It wasn't that long ago (five years, maybe?) that you could get all major parts (bolt, trigger groups, op-rods) through the CMP for about $50 each. Again, they stopped that when they reallized they might need those parts to maintain their in-service rifles.
Oh, and you will never see M14 rifles released through the CMP.
It wasn't that long ago (five years, maybe?) that you could get all major parts (bolt, trigger groups, op-rods) through the CMP for about $50 each. Again, they stopped that when they reallized they might need those parts to maintain their in-service rifles.
Oh, and you will never see M14 rifles released through the CMP.
My last Navy unit had five or six M-14s in the armory. The gunners mates let me hold them, but not fire them ![[crying]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/006.gif "Crying [crying]")
Just as an aside, the fully capable M14 rifle had a "special" full auto muzzle shroud that covered the original flash hider when you shot the rifle as a full-auto MG. It's not well known and it's quite rare. I've attached a photo. Keep your eyes peeled for one at any show you may go to. They're like hen's teeth.
The M14 was truely a rifle that was at the end of the "bigger is better" design line. Why the M16 was adopted over more conventional designs like the FAL, for instance, was that those big cartridges just beat up a "small arm" pretty badly over a short period of time. None of the big-caliber semi-autos designed from around the world survived for long in the field and were set aside for the smaller, more intermediate size cartridge such as 7.62 x 39 and the .223. Most main battle rifles use one of those calibers. However, that wonderful .308/NATO 7.62 x 51 round most certainly has a place in the field and is why it found a niche in the battle fields of today. It's a wonderful rifle however it's reallllly heavy but does the job to reach out and touch the badguys better than any of those smaller cartridges.
Rome
The M14 was truely a rifle that was at the end of the "bigger is better" design line. Why the M16 was adopted over more conventional designs like the FAL, for instance, was that those big cartridges just beat up a "small arm" pretty badly over a short period of time. None of the big-caliber semi-autos designed from around the world survived for long in the field and were set aside for the smaller, more intermediate size cartridge such as 7.62 x 39 and the .223. Most main battle rifles use one of those calibers. However, that wonderful .308/NATO 7.62 x 51 round most certainly has a place in the field and is why it found a niche in the battle fields of today. It's a wonderful rifle however it's reallllly heavy but does the job to reach out and touch the badguys better than any of those smaller cartridges.
Rome
The military has warehouses full of weapons- what were destroyed during the Beelzabubba years were part of that.
In the late 1980's my unit was deploying to the JRTC, which was then at Ft Chaffee, AR. We were the third battalion to go, ever, and the first from our division (the 101st Abn). So it was a big deal. At the time each line company had two snipers (or at least guys they gave M-21's to). We had one guy who had been to the sniper school on post, and I think they just grabbed another guy. Anyway, for this deployment they issued each man an M-14 fromt he post weapons pool. They were brand new, in the foil wrapper, M-14A1's, with accessories. Except for one guy in Alpha company, his receiver was marked M-15. Honest to God, I saw it with my own eyes, as they didn't know what it was and a friend in that company came to find me to ask and I went over to look at it. it had the standard barrel, not the heavy one, but was plainly marked. Anyway, at that point there were still some floating around that were virtually brand new.
We gave something like 100,000 M-14's to Lithuania, there were a bunch that Beelzabubba had destroyed, and there were about 1.2 million produced. Korea got some, the Philipines have a bunch, some were given to other countries, too, in smaller quantities. Of those remaining many were unserviceable- used beyond repair or in need of repair, stripped for parts to repair other rifles, etc. So there weren't many available when the GWOT started.
What I'd like to see released are the million++ M-16A1's that they have. While many are worn out there are lots that are like brand new. they could drill out the sear pin hole, put in a block like Colt did, and convert the internals to AR15 specifications. That would be awesome.
Anyway, we're lucky enough to get M-1's and carbines and such via the CMP, particularly given the politicians we elect these days.
In the late 1980's my unit was deploying to the JRTC, which was then at Ft Chaffee, AR. We were the third battalion to go, ever, and the first from our division (the 101st Abn). So it was a big deal. At the time each line company had two snipers (or at least guys they gave M-21's to). We had one guy who had been to the sniper school on post, and I think they just grabbed another guy. Anyway, for this deployment they issued each man an M-14 fromt he post weapons pool. They were brand new, in the foil wrapper, M-14A1's, with accessories. Except for one guy in Alpha company, his receiver was marked M-15. Honest to God, I saw it with my own eyes, as they didn't know what it was and a friend in that company came to find me to ask and I went over to look at it. it had the standard barrel, not the heavy one, but was plainly marked. Anyway, at that point there were still some floating around that were virtually brand new.
We gave something like 100,000 M-14's to Lithuania, there were a bunch that Beelzabubba had destroyed, and there were about 1.2 million produced. Korea got some, the Philipines have a bunch, some were given to other countries, too, in smaller quantities. Of those remaining many were unserviceable- used beyond repair or in need of repair, stripped for parts to repair other rifles, etc. So there weren't many available when the GWOT started.
What I'd like to see released are the million++ M-16A1's that they have. While many are worn out there are lots that are like brand new. they could drill out the sear pin hole, put in a block like Colt did, and convert the internals to AR15 specifications. That would be awesome.
Anyway, we're lucky enough to get M-1's and carbines and such via the CMP, particularly given the politicians we elect these days.
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Great post, Tim. It's always great to read first-hand accounts. So you saw one marked M-15? Wowzer, that's a new one on me.
I'm going to suggest that you post over at the M14 forum and direct your information to a guy whose handle is "Different".
http://www.eotacforum.com/viewforum.php?f=108
His name is Lee and he's the undisputed pro when it comes to the M14 and he's even written a book about it, too. I'll bet that Lee will be able to shed some light on that designation and if not, it'll be some fodder for him to chew on. I'd love to know more about it!
Thanks, again.
Rome
I'm going to suggest that you post over at the M14 forum and direct your information to a guy whose handle is "Different".
http://www.eotacforum.com/viewforum.php?f=108
His name is Lee and he's the undisputed pro when it comes to the M14 and he's even written a book about it, too. I'll bet that Lee will be able to shed some light on that designation and if not, it'll be some fodder for him to chew on. I'd love to know more about it!
Thanks, again.
Rome
M16A1's would be the way they could go.
Strip them down, get rid of the lower receiver, and any NFA parts, then peddle them as parts sets. Add a lower receiver, bolt carrier and trigger parts, and you've got a rifle.
Strip them down, get rid of the lower receiver, and any NFA parts, then peddle them as parts sets. Add a lower receiver, bolt carrier and trigger parts, and you've got a rifle.
![[shocked]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/007.gif "Shocked [shocked]")
ChevyGuy91
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i shot a M14 full auto during one of our gun shoots on the ship a few years back, perks of being a small arms coach, it is almost imposible to control. we had to undo the sling from the butt and stand on it to keep it from walking to bad. but in Semi, it is by far my favorite long gun to shoot. i really want to get one of the springfield M1A's.
Some of the clubs in CT had some of these on loan from the military for shooting matches. They were all requested to be returned a couple of years ago.
I can't see the CMP getting these .. I would like the CMP to get some 308 ammo that would nice !!
I can't see the CMP getting these .. I would like the CMP to get some 308 ammo that would nice !!
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