Permit refusal/denial question

[Marcus99]

Sorry for the long post, I can't really ask the question without a little background info.

A while back when I was younger, misinformed and eager to start carrying I applied for a NH non-resident carry permit; I was a MA resident at the time. I didn't have the MA LTC Class A at the time because I was under 21, just had an FID. I thought that would suffice. Unsurprisingly I did not receive the permit. However I'm not quite sure if I was denied the permit. I dug up the paperwork and nowhere does it mention the words "refusal" or "denied". It says that the form is being returned to me, highlights the reason why (lack of a resident carry permit) and says to resubmit the application when I have the required materials.

I then applied for a NH resident, I thought my family's property in NH would suffice as a residence (very stupid and ill informed information I know). Again I was not issued the permit. A letter was included with the returned form that said it was "being returned" because I was under 21, nowhere are the words "denied" or "refused" used.

I'm currently a NH resident and possess the resident carry permit.

I know it was really stupid to apply for those permits when I was younger and I regret it no doubt. But my question is whether or not I was "denied/refused" the permit's or whether the paperwork was simply returned, because it seems to me that there is a distinguishable difference (at least in definition) between the two. I ask because I am going to be applying for my MA non-resident LTC soon and want to have everything in order. As many of you probably already know it states verbatim on the form:

10. Have any license to carry firearms, permit to possess firearms, or firearms identification card issued under the laws of any state or territory ever been suspended, revoked or denied?​

It goes without saying a refused/denied permit won't look good, so if I can avoid mentioning those permits I applied for I would be very happy.

As always thanks for any help or advice you can provide.

 

[Len-2A Training]

IANAL and can't answer your question definitively. My NON-lawyer "opinion" based STRICTLY on what you wrote here would be that they "refused" your application as you weren't qualified due to age.

At any rate, even if you did disclose it as a "denial", you are required to give the reason for said denial. Being underage is NOT something that CHSB will hold against you and won't prevent you from getting the standard NR LTC-A restricted to hunting/target only for your $100.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

If they kept the fee and application, it would be a denial. If they returned everything, I expect that you could defend it as "not a rejection".

 

[caboose84]

IANAL, and competent legal counsel should be sought- but in NH a denial is required to be formal, in writing, with the reason for denial explicitly given in order to allow an individual to appeal. So based on that not happening in your case, you could answer "No" to the denial question.

 

[wolf223]

dude


why on earth did you apply for those permits even though you weren't 21 years old???? what were you thinking? were you hoping they'd somehow "miss it"???

you know, like handing over a ID to a bar tender or bouncer in a night club???

 

[natf]

dude
why on earth did you apply for those permits even though you weren't 21 years old???? what were you thinking? were you hoping they'd somehow "miss it"???

you know, like handing over a ID to a bar tender or bouncer in a night club???

There's no minimum age for the NH pistol permit. There's a minimum age to purchase a handgun but not to be issued a permit. It still was not a wise decision to apply for the permits as he did but it's not a simple matter of hoping they'd miss it. There is no statutory minimum age for the NH pistol permit.

-Nat

 

[wolf223]

i stand corrected..

 

[Marcus99]

Guys I'd really like to stay on topic. I admit it was a stupid thing to do, but I'm moving forward. Thank you.

The check's were returned with both applications. There were also formal letters included in both, however neither says it was refused or denied, one says returned and the other says incomplete. If anyone thinks they could determine by looking at the letter's, I'd be willing to blot out the headers and post them up.

is NOT something that CHSB will hold against you and won't prevent you from getting the standard NR LTC-A restricted to hunting/target only for your $100.

Lens, are you saying that because of those failed attempts at the NH permit I won't be able to get an unrestricted MA non-res LTC Class A, or are you going of the general trend where most first time applicants seem to get a restricted permit?

Thanks again for your time and assistance.

 

[caboose84]

A denial would say denied and why, and here is how you can appeal.

Can't answer for Lens but the history reported on this board is that MA does not give out unrestricted LTC-A's to non residents.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Marcus, the latter. It seems that CHSB is issuing restricted permits to all first-time applicants, unless they have some very good reasons (in CHSB's mind) to need to CCW.

What I was saying is that in your case, even if you were denied for being underage, it will NOT adversely affect your application to MA or anywhere else.

 

[Marcus99]

Marcus, the latter. It seems that CHSB is issuing restricted permits to all first-time applicants, unless they have some very good reasons (in CHSB's mind) to need to CCW.

What I was saying is that in your case, even if you were denied for being underage, it will NOT adversely affect your application to MA or anywhere else.

That's good to hear, thank you for clarifying that for me.

 

[Nick-mc]

dude


why on earth did you apply for those permits even though you weren't 21 years old???? what were you thinking? were you hoping they'd somehow "miss it"???

you know, like handing over a ID to a bar tender or bouncer in a night club???

I got my NH resident permit well under 21. I think I was 18 or 19 at the time. I also got the ME Non-res license shortly afterwards. As natf stated, there's no age requirement for the P&R license but if you want to buy a handgun from an FFL you'd have to be 21. However, it's not illegal to possess handguns (in NH at least, i'm not too savy on other states laws) if you're under 21, you just can't buy from a dealer. I had several before I hit my 21st, family gifts, etc. Now in MA, i'm sure this isn't the case, I believe they specifically state you need to be 21 for their license, i'm sure others can chime in on this.

That being said, it wasn't "stupid" for you to apply for the permit because of your age. I have seen very responsible, young gun owners. I mean, if you've grown up in NH, it's pretty much part of life as a kid.

And in regards to the original question, in my humble opinion, I don't believe it was "denied" for two reasons. The first is that when you filed the original non-resident app you didn't have all your paperwork in order, and the second time you didn't recieve the license based on something that is not grounded in NH Statute. NH is a shall issue state, so a local CLEO couldn't deny your license request based on the fact that you were under 21, and you could have most likely appealed the decision. But, sicne you already admitted you weren't actually a NH resident at the time (you were just trying to find a loophole with a family members address), it wouldn't have done you any use to argue that point.

But, those are two very easy to explain reasons for a permit denial anyways, they shouldn't impact the outcome of a different state's permit app. It's not like you were denied because you have domestic battery charges or something.

...oh and good luck!

 

[Marcus99]

Thanks for the replies guys.

I spoke with officials at the NH SP Permits and Licensing unit. Being that the paperwork was returned due to failing to fulfill the requirements, the non-res application was rejected, not denied. In addition, the Police Chief in my town said that my res permit application was also not denied because I didn't meet a requirement so they never processed the rest.

So I'm fortunate in that I can say I have never had an application denied. I'm a little more optimistic about applying for my MA non-res LTC now