Pelosi: ‘We want registration.’

[calsdad]

Yeah, they do, AFTER you get them from the FFL. There's just ONE copy, and the FFL keeps it. Even the NICS check only tracks the buyer info, for a couple of days.

4473's do NOT go outside the FFL's control without a warrant. The BATFE can go look at them, even transcribe some info.

Needless to say, on a large scale bassis, that's damned near impossible to do quietly.

What you folks in MA need to sweat are FA-10's, because IIRC, the state gets a copy, right?

FA-10's go to the CHSB (Criminal History Services Board) - and the Firearms Records Bureau - so yeah, the state has a copy if they want to bother to look at it.

http://www.goal.org/misc/faq/handgunsales.html

In MA at least the Feds could always use State records to do confiscations if they were so inclined.

In the short run I think the efforts at marginalization are far more worrisome than confiscation.

I just can't see how they could pull off confiscation without a lot of pre-warning and even test cases. To just wake up suddenly one day and find out that the Feds are attempting confiscation is basically impossible.

All other countries that took firearms from owners' all had "hand them in" - not outright confiscation initially.

So any effort to removed guns from their owners in this country would (in my estimation) start with a "hand them in" edict. Police Departments and/or government agencies all around the country would have to be notified in advance, warehouses would have to be set up to receive the firearms (there is something on the order of 220 million firearms in this country - and a LOT of ammo), etc. and so forth.

There is absolutely no way we would not know about this before hand. It's just too damn big. And we could throw the entire train off the rails by simply refusing to comply.

The minute a significant percentage of gun owners refuse to walk down to their local collection center and hand over their firearms the entire effort would be on the road to failure. The difference in effort and expense to actually go around and confiscate vs. having people hand them in is HUGE.

It's all going to come down to how much each individual gun owner is willing to defy the powers that be. If you are the type of person who when you hear the command to hand in your firearms, you run down to the local collection center - to "avoid trouble". Well then guess what: those guns were never going defend your liberty, because YOU were never going to defend your liberty.

The gun is only a tool. If the person wielding the tool doesn't know what the f*** he is doing - then a masterpiece will never result. Put a paintbrush in the hand of a monkey and he will paint his nuts blue. Put the same paintbrush in the hand of Picasso and he will give you a masterpiece.

Far too many people think all they have to do is own a paintbrush and all the problems will be taken care of - it's not true.

 

[Nickle]

+1

That's about the best way I've ever seen it presented.

You know, it's also what I've been talking about, too.

Marginalization is one method.

Making it "Socially Unacceptable" to own a firearm would be another. Somehow, I don't see this one happening anytime soon. More like it's starting to turn the other way for some people. You might not see it, but, I damned sure do.

Does anybody think increased penalties is what caused the drop in Drunk Driving?

Of course it didn't. What did cause that drop was getting a DWI being Socially Unacceptable. When your friends think it's poor behavior, it's no longer "cool" or something you can do.

 

[pdm]

Of course, but, that will only get a few of them.

Think about it for a moment.

Does anybody here think FFL's are all that dumb?

Think they don't speak to each other?

Well, those are pretty dumb questions, because the answers are obvious, but, if some of you had taken a moment and thought about it, you wouldn't be so afraid of the 4473's. Yes, it can be done by the 4473 method, IF you have enough agents/officers to confiscate them from ALL the dealers, at the SAME time, across the country.

Not too practical now, is it?

They don't have to get them all. Just shutting down FFLs will choke us off. Sure, I bet a bunch of FFLs will have inexplicable fires or faulty electrical work, but once they're out of business... who do you go to? They don't even need a good case to shut you down. How long can the typical FFL afford to fight the ATF in court?

 

[Nickle]

Correct, but, as has been stated, there's already 220 million firearms out there, and a shitload of ammo.

Now, we all know that shutting down all FFL's is what some folks refer to as "Political Suicide", right?

Basically, it would likely spell the END of the DNC, because almost all of the FUDD's would instantly change their minds, and many non gun owners would see what's next.

No, the smart way for them to do this is one small group after another, and few politicians want to take on Battle Rifle shooters AGAIN. Remember 1994.

 

[ShadeWPI]

I don't know about other states, but NH took steps to prevent producing a "registration list" a while back. When National Insant Criminal background checks (NICs) was started and required for purchase, NH passed a state law requiring the records of the check be destroyed after 72 hours specifically to prevent the check information from being entered into a database for future registration. Of course, NH also made it a felony for a Federal, State or Local agent or official to confiscate a legally owned firearm during a declared state of emergency. - Yes, that's a felony on the part of the government agent/offical after the problems in New Orleans following Katrina.

Canada required registration (hand guns first, then later long guns and shotguns) then the banned handguns and they used their registration list to collect guns - and since failure to report the loss of a firearm within 72 hours was also a crime, they arrested anyone who failed to produce the registered weapon.

Many states already have "registration" programmed. Any state that requires a spent case be submitted requires registration. I believe it's Minnasota that has a "required state police state inspection of all working firearms" with a copy of the inspection report being filed at the state police office. Have no doubts, registration has only one purpose - to make gun owners criminals - either by connecting weapons to the gun owner or by banning them.

 

[Twigg]

Wow. I knew about the "Katrina Bill" being passed up here but I didn't know about the 72 hr rule. I'm feling better & better about my move up here.

You're dead nuts on as to how the registration / confiscation game goes.

 

[pdm]

Correct, but, as has been stated, there's already 220 million firearms out there, and a shitload of ammo.

Now, we all know that shutting down all FFL's is what some folks refer to as "Political Suicide", right?

Basically, it would likely spell the END of the DNC, because almost all of the FUDD's would instantly change their minds, and many non gun owners would see what's next.

No, the smart way for them to do this is one small group after another, and few politicians want to take on Battle Rifle shooters AGAIN. Remember 1994.

Well, I don't think they'll close them all down at once -- they don't have the manpower to do that. But I think Red's Trading Post in ID was a trial balloon of sorts.

You can hold out hope that Fudds will see the light. I don't. Maybe some will and that would be enough. We're in a war of attrition and we're the ones being bled white.