Only Restricted Class A allowed, What do I do?

[peterpressure]

I recently moved to a slightly Urban town in Massachusetts.

It is colored "Red" on the "Guide to gun rights in your Massachusetts town".

"Bold Red May Issue and/or are difficult to obtain a "Class A" "All Lawful Purposes" usually give out restricted such as "Sport and Target""

I took the Basic Pistol Cert. Class and received my certificate at my local instructors location.

The instructor confirmed that my town does not give out "All Lawfull Purposes" Class A LTC licenses.

I stopped by the local Police department Licensing office this morning and she scheduled for me to come in at the soonest time available (in November!) to fill out the paperwork with her (she does not give out the licensing packet apparently, I have to come in November and fill it out with her?) and she stated it will be restricted to "Target and/or Hunting" only.

Now, I am not looking to make a big deal over this, nor am I looking to be a trouble-maker in my fine town. Also, I really DO NOT see myself carrying my fire-arm often if ever!

But it just sort of bothers me that I am unable to prove to my fine town that I am a man of such strong moral character, that I can be trusted with an "Unrestricted" license.

How can I prove that I can be trusted to adhere to all lawfull purposes in the safe handling of a firearm at all times?

I have the upmost respect for law enforcement in my town and would never want to be regarded as a "rabble rouser". Must I settle for a "restricted" Class A License?

If anyone has any recomendations and/or guidance and it involves any additional costs (lawyers fees, etc...) please outline the price of such an ordeal. I do not really see myself going through soemthing like that but I am curious...

If all else fails, Target and Hunting shall do...

 

[peterpressure]

Also

Also, I have been an upstanding citizen my entire life with a spotless record.

AND I am employed as an Electrical Engineer so I really have no real employment related reason.



I need to protect my wife and pets!!!

Again I am not looking to carry the darn thing, its the principle!!!

 

[billmelater]

Sounds like Lowell and Det. Nadja Peace!

 

[Len-2A Training]

Refer to the Sticky on how to obtain a LTC in the Gun Laws forum . . . that's why we put it there. Lots of good info there on how to approach this.

Short of hiring a lawyer, I don't know what you can do to change minds that are unchangeable (hard and fast policy, no matter who applies)!

 

[peterpressure]

Yes, I have read the stickies. Some great info..

Sadly however, you nailed it on the head

"(hard and fast policy, no matter who applies)! "

Oh well. I won't let it bother me to much...

 

[Finalygotabeltfed]

You made the choice to move there now you must live with the consequences.....or move to a town with a chief who's head is not stuck up his ass.

 

[Another_David]

It should bother you and if you want to do something you can start by joining www.goal.org

I know your situation all too well.

 

[Finalygotabeltfed]

Yes, I have read the stickies. Some great info..

Sadly however, you nailed it on the head

"(hard and fast policy, no matter who applies)! "

Oh well. I won't let it bother me to much...

This type of attitude is EXACTLY what dictatorial tyrants count on.

 

[peterpressure]

This type of attitude is EXACTLY what dictatorial tyrants count on.

Do I have any choice and if so, at what cost?

Just trying to have a positive view on my situation!

It should bother you and if you want to do something you can start by joining www.goal.org

It does bother me, but I will try and supress my thoughts of frustration...

I joined GOAL!

 

[WayneWong]

Bruthah, you could be me. And yes, it is the principle. I'm going through this now. My permit will be ready next week, and the licensing officer told me today that it will be restricted. And I had the old style "personal protection" for over 10 years , with four at my current address but since I'm starting up again, first issue is restricted.

As best I can tell, your chief can require a compelling reason for All Lawful Purposes, and unless you have a hoard of vengeful, insane, sociopaths with your name scribbled on their list, you will get a restricted license.

Say the serenity prayer here. Buy some nice guns, have fun at the range, get some good cases to transport them unloaded. I'm looking at gun safes now. BTW, I joined GOAL and the NRA. You out to consider it too.

Oh yeah, it's giving me time to think about what i really want, and if you aren't planning on actually carrying, think about an appropriate handgun to use in your house for personal protection (I believe you can still do that), and a versatile rifle (such as an AR-15) that you can have fun with at the range or use against the zombies that awaken should there be nuclear fallout.

I actually got assistance from an attorney who helped me write an excellent letter supporting my request but it didn't matter. Its the law that's bad, because it does not provide for equal protection.

Welcome aboard.

 

[Mikey]

You have two choices:

1. Hire a lawyer and fight for your rights or

2. Deal with what the LEO gives you; you will not "change their minds".

As for cost you would have to contact a lawyer in private to see what they charge.
I know this in not the best idea and not feasible for all but a small personal loan for the lawyer fees would be my choice if I lived in a liberty deficient town. Maybe I am way off but I can’t imagine it costing more the a couple thousand dollars, which would be an easy loan to pay off and worth it to protect your rights.

Just my .02

 

[C-pher]

Bruthah, you could be me. And yes, it is the principle. I'm going through this now. My permit will be ready next week, and the licensing officer told me today that it will be restricted. And I had the old style "personal protection" for over 10 years , with four at my current address but since I'm starting up again, first issue is restricted.

As best I can tell, your chief can require a compelling reason for All Lawful Purposes, and unless you have a hoard of vengeful, insane, sociopaths with your name scribbled on their list, you will get a restricted license.

Say the serenity prayer here. Buy some nice guns, have fun at the range, get some good cases to transport them unloaded. I'm looking at gun safes now. BTW, I joined GOAL and the NRA. You out to consider it too.

Oh yeah, it's giving me time to think about what i really want, and if you aren't planning on actually carrying, think about an appropriate handgun to use in your house for personal protection (I believe you can still do that), and a versatile rifle (such as an AR-15) that you can have fun with at the range or use against the zombies that awaken should there be nuclear fallout.

I actually got assistance from an attorney who helped me write an excellent letter supporting my request but it didn't matter. Its the law that's bad, because it does not provide for equal protection.

Welcome aboard.

You should have moved one town over....

 

[WayneWong]

You should have moved one town over....

Who knew? 20 years ago, both our towns were sticksville. Now it's like living on Rte 9 in Framingham. Between the malls and plazas, and the Gillete Stadium events, the roads will be impassible, and the character of our communities will have turned to sh*t.

I think we'll be leaving Mass. for a warmer climate within the next 5 or 6 years. And I won't look back, not for a minute.

Our chief is doing a great job with the police, but he came from a RED community and has brought that philosophy here. I'm sure he has his good reasons, but I'm a 2A believer and a Shall Issue supporter.

 

[peterpressure]

I greatly appreciate the replies from everyone...

I figured a Lawyer would be my only choice, but "Thousands of dollars" seems out of the question at the moment.

I will think about it some more, I have literally months to think about it since my interview is not for a few months then I'll wait the usual 4-8 weeks to receive my LTC.

I will keep the forum updated on my progress...

 

[dwarven1]

WayneWong, peterpressure - WTF is WRONG with you? Are you citizens or sheep??? Join GOAL, that's a good start - and make sure that you send Nancy Snow the FULL details of how you're being treated, including if you've had previous LTC's.

And why in G-d's name are you NOT calling your state representative and state senator and demanding that they sponsor legislation to make this a shall issue state? Or sponsoring GOAL's bills on the subject?

Damnit, GET mad! If you - and every gun owner in the state - don't, nothing will happen. Nothing. And you'll still have your Fuddly little license.

 

[Chris]

... in my fine town.

Fine town? Where they don't even trust their citizens?

Why the <expletive deleted> would you ever trust THEM to do their job?

Shall we list the number of 911 calls in this state that go unanswered or where the police arrive too late?

If you do "settle" for the "Target and Hunting", be sure you know what it means. Lets say you get a deer. Does your license allow you to transport your guns to the wildlife station to get the deer checked? What exactly are you hunting at the wildlife station?

Yes, I'm being a little over the top, but lets be honest here. What does it mean? Are you allowed to stop and get gas on the way home from the range? Are you allowed to keep your guns in your car at work because you are going to the range after?

Stopping an intruder in your home would technically be a violation of your license as well.

Even the Mass Chiefs of Police Organization recommend "All Lawful Purposes" as written in the law for the very reason that it protects the chief who issues such licenses.

If you accept the restriction, you also accept all the grief that might come with it. Most lawyers will give you an initial consultation and explain the process to you without charge (at least those that work with GOAL members do this) I can tell you that getting the lawyer BEFORE applying is a LOT cheaper than hiring the lawyer after for any reason.

 

[peterpressure]

I am mad, But since this is my first LTC, I have to be carefull.

I am a member of GOAL, I have not contacted them yet, but I will with full details of my situation.

My Congressiojnal seat is currently Vacant and my State Senator is
STEVEN C. PANAGIOTAKOS (D.)

I will give him a call, but I am not expecting much of a response...

I am tryign to be calm, measured, and carefull about how I do this. IT is my FIRST LTC, if it was simply a renewal, perhaps I would feel differently. Since this is not a "Shall Issue" State and this is my first LTC, I would hate to ruin my chances of even getting a Restricted Class A LTC.

Again, thanks for the good ideas. I will take tihs as far as I can currently afford w/o jeapordizing my application process...

 

[peterpressure]

Are you allowed to keep your guns in your car at work because you are going to the range after?

Stopping an intruder in your home would technically be a violation of your license as well.

Whoa, with a Restricted Class A to Target and Hunting, Is the above statement true???

I was surely planning on going to the range after work And if need be stopping an intruder from harming my home or family when at home. I had not thought that a restricted license would have resulted in both those tasks being illegal.

If this is indeed true, than I am a bit more mad than previously indicated and I should probably seek some legal guidance!!!

 

[dwarven1]

If this is indeed true, than I am a bit more mad than previously indicated and I should probably seek some legal guidance!!!

Hallelujah! He has SEEN the light!!

May I recommend Darius Arbabi - massgunlaw.com - or Keith Langer - don't have his number handy but he advertises in the Outdoor Message every month - look for a business-card-sized ad with a sword in it.

Both gentlemen are active on NES and give you good advice.

 

[KMaurer]

Hallelujah! He has SEEN the light!!

May I recommend Darius Arbabi - massgunlaw.com - or Keith Langer - don't have his number handy but he advertises in the Outdoor Message every month - look for a business-card-sized ad with a sword in it.

Both gentlemen are active on NES and give you good advice.

I'll throw in my favorite, Jesse Cohen. He's also on the list , but doesn't spend a lot of time on line.

Ken

 

[Chris]

Even if you decide NOT to use a lawyer's services, take a business card and stick it right next to your LTC so that if something happens, you have the number handy. Now that the LTC is credit card size, I keep mine in one of those bank card Tyvek sleeves along with my favorite lawyer's card. I also have his #s programmed in my cell phone.

 

[WayneWong]

Guys, I already have a lawyer, and paid him well to help me draft an excellent letter. Obviously, it wasn't enough, but for right now I am glad to get the permit, purchase some hardware, and have some good times with all of you at the range.

Once I have my permit in hand, I will absolutely talk to my lawyer and proceed to the next step. But the law provides for restricted permits in the absence of a legitimate threat to an individual. Right now, nobody wants to harm me. A long time ago, people did.

To allow local discretion for a statewide permit is not fair without a statewide administrative appeal process. That's the only thing right now that would help provide some shred of consistency.

But yes, I will follow through. Take due notice thereof.

As far as car storage goes, I will clarify with my chief in writing what he considers proper, unattendend storage in a motor vehicle. If i need to buy a hardened case with a cable lock, no problem, as long as I am guaranteed that I will not be found unsuitable if the car or firearm gets stolen.

 

[Mikey]

WayneWong, you are doing it kind of backwards, you should have fought to get the ALP/LTC right away and there is only an appeal when you get denied not when you get a restricted permit. IMO it would be easier and cheaper to fight from the start rather then waiting and having to file some kind of lawsuit or something but IANAL..

 

[WayneWong]

Relative to personal protection in the home, I found this information on the Freetown Mass. PD website. I don't know the legal source of it though. Might not be the case outside of Freetown.

This is part of a post I made elsewhere, I apologize for the duplicate information, but it might be helpful to you, peterpressure.

Target & Hunting – Restricts possession to the purpose of lawful recreational shooting or competition; for use in the lawful pursuit of game animals and birds; for personal protection in the home; and for the purpose of collecting (other than machine guns). Includes travel to and from activity location.


Sporting – Restricts possession to the purpose of lawful recreational shooting or competition; for use in the lawful pursuit of game animals and birds; for personal protection in the home; for the purpose of collecting (other than machine guns); and for outdoor recreational activities such as hiking, camping, cross country skiing, or similar activities. Includes travel to and from activity location.

 

[WayneWong]

WayneWong, you are doing it kind of backwards, you should have fought to get the ALP/LTC right away and there is only an appeal when you get denied not when you get a restricted permit. IMO it would be easier and cheaper to fight from the start rather then waiting and having to file some kind of lawsuit or something but IANAL..

I considered it but a DENIAL follows you forever, as on most applications for this and other states it will ask you whether or not you have been denied. A restriction is not the same as a DENIAL.

I don't want to get into explaining a denial on future applications. I'd rather pony up another $100 and apply again if and when it gets straightened out.

 

[Paulm]

I had a lawyer helping me throughout all my applications and renewals. This attorney has been a great asset throughout family and business issues however his assistance didn't help one bit. Through my initial license and two renewals, I ended up with a neutered license.

After continued frustration with the restrictions, I consulted one of the attorney's noted earlier who specialize in firearms and finally on the third renewal, using the information gained from him, I was able to get the unrestricted ALP.

Lesson Learned- All Lawyers are not created equal. In something as important as this, I would certainly recommend a specialist.

Paul
(formerly known as Bugie)

Guys, I already have a lawyer, and paid him well to help me draft an excellent letter. Obviously, it wasn't enough, but for right now I am glad to get the permit, purchase some hardware, and have some good times with all of you at the range.

Once I have my permit in hand, I will absolutely talk to my lawyer and proceed to the next step. But the law provides for restricted permits in the absence of a legitimate threat to an individual. Right now, nobody wants to harm me. A long time ago, people did.

To allow local discretion for a statewide permit is not fair without a statewide administrative appeal process. That's the only thing right now that would help provide some shred of consistency.

But yes, I will follow through. Take due notice thereof.

As far as car storage goes, I will clarify with my chief in writing what he considers proper, unattendend storage in a motor vehicle. If i need to buy a hardened case with a cable lock, no problem, as long as I am guaranteed that I will not be found unsuitable if the car or firearm gets stolen.

 

[dwarven1]

But the law provides for restricted permits in the absence of a legitimate threat to an individual. Right now, nobody wants to harm me.

I'm so glad that you will know in advance when a home invasion or a mugging will take place. I don't get those advance warnings. And can you tell me where in the Second Amendment it says "If you're being legitimately threatened"? It doesn't seem to be in my copy...

 

[Mikey]

I considered it but a DENIAL follows you forever, as on most applications for this and other states it will ask you whether or not you have been denied. A restriction is not the same as a DENIAL.

I don't want to get into explaining a denial on future applications. I'd rather pony up another $100 and apply again if and when it gets straightened out.

I do not mean you should want to get denied, I mean if you had fought this all the way from the beginning you would not get a restricted LTC in the first place nor would you get denied.

 

[Len-2A Training]

. . .

 

[Chris]

S & T or H & T restricted licenses mean WHATEVER THE ISSUING AUTHORITY WANTS THEM TO MEAN!!

Technically, it means what the prosecutor tries to tell the court it means and what the court decides it means. While most will revert to the license authority, that is NOT a guarantee.

Shall we pick 12 random citizens and ask them what "Target and Hunting" means?

Do you really want to face a liberal Suffolk County DA in a liberal courtroom and explain that "Target and Hunting" allows for something that neither of those words applies to?

Please remember, the restriction is LAW that you must obey written by an unelected official that can stand in court and claim it means whatever he wants.

But then again, if you like playing against the stacked deck....