Noob Mosin-Nagant owner

Prepper

Prepper

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I have a new (well not exactly) M44 that arrived this week, and another 91/30 on the way from the group buy (woo hoo!). I have downloaded (and started looking at) a bunch of manuals and bookmarked a number of web sites that give all sorts of details about them, cleaning, disassembly, etc. This'll take a while to digest all of this stuff.

I see many of the web sites talk about headspace gauges. I have never dealt with these before; is this something that everyone here buys and uses before firing their surplus rifles? What'd be recommended purchases (if any)? Looks like a NO-GO gauge is more popular but web sites seem to encourage buying all of them (GO and Field). One reason I'm buying M-N is they are cheaper, so I don't want to spend too much here on stuff like headspace gauges unless I need to.

Looks like I'll need to give it an extremely thorough cleaning... this could take a while. And folks talk about the bolt stick problem, so I guess the chamber has to be spotless.

Anything I am missing? Most important, I don't want it to explode when fired or otherwise have something bad go wrong with it like the bolt really stuck.

After the first range trip (assuming a thorough clean first), do people tend to just do a quick clean? Taking everything apart every time could take a while... I'm wondering what the minimum amount of cleaning I should do that'd be appropriate after each trip to range. e.g. remove bolt, clean barrel (and chamber?), clean outside of bolt, and clean whatever is exposed in the receiver? No lubriplate or anything like that needed for these, right?
 
Most of the answers to your questions and some you didn't think about yet can be found in the stickies in the Mil Surp section and on surplusrifle.com under the Mosin Nagant section.

Using surplusrifle.com's step by step page, the average new Mosin owner should be able to completely take down, clean, and reassemble a Mosin in about an hour and a half. These rifles usually come with just some oil residue, no cosmolene unless you buy an M39 Finn Mosin.

I've never checked the headspace in any of my Mosins. I'm not saying you should fire yours without doing so, just saying I've never checked mine. If I did though, I'd probably use a field gauge.

Depending on whether or not you shoot corrosive ammo, you can probably get away with some light brushing with Break Free followed up by a few dry patches. If you shoot corrosive ammo, use the clean up methods recomended in the stickies in the Mil Surp section.
As for using any lube on these, I wipe down all the metal inside and out with a light coat of Break Free before reassembling the rifle after the initial take down and cleaning, even the inside of the bolt and firing pin.

Don't forget to check your firing pin protrusion btw.
 
when cleaning the rifle for the 1st time, you need to keep in mind that after it looks clean, its still actualy soaked in comosline. it took my M38 1 can of gun scrubber, 1 can of brake cleaner and a lot of hoppes #9 after 3 cleanings to get the bolt free of the evil bolt stick cosmoline coating.
aparently the cosmoline makes a small invisible coating on the parts that will make it difficult to cycle rounds, so beat the hell out of that bad boy with cleaning products.
just make sure you take the rifle off the wooden frame, becuase you can mess up the finish if theres any left on it.


also, buy the firing pin gauge if you dont have it, if the firing pin sticks out to much it will cuase the primer not to go off when struck, and if it doesnt go out enough it can do the same thing, either way its not a good thing.

oh, and the bolt sucks to take apart. stupid 1891 tech!
 
Dench said:
also, buy the firing pin gauge if you dont have it, if the firing pin sticks out to much it will cuase the primer not to go off when struck, and if it doesnt go out enough it can do the same thing, either way its not a good thing.

oh, and the bolt sucks to take apart. stupid 1891 tech!
Click to expand...

Actually if the pin is out too much, you can pierce primers which would result in a blowback of gas most likely right in the face.

As for the bolt, I think its the simplest design ever made when dealing with bolt actions. What other bolt falls apart for you after you un-cock it? [grin]
 
Prepper said:
Something else I haven't done before... I presume I need to get some sort of gauge.
Click to expand...

yes sir.
mosblttl.jpg

found here; http://www.tickbitesupply.com/mos.html

if your going to one of the upcoming shoots im sure one of us can show you how its done if you have any questions
 
I recommend buying a headspace gaige (specifically a "field" gauge) for any caliber where you anticipate buying multiple rifles. For example, if you really like the British Enfields, and plan on buying several examples - definitely get the .303 British gauge.

If you only plan on getting a single example (say the Arisaka T99 in 7.7mm), try to find a gauge you can borrow.

I have read that guns that shoot rimmed calibers (like the 7.62x54R of the Mosin) generally do not have headspace issues, as compared to those with rimless calibers (like the .30-06 ) which have the headspace measured between the shoulder and the boltface. That being said, I still check the headspace on any new gun, if possible.

The field gauge is your "last chance" gauge - if the gun is a well-used milsurp and doesn't pass the no-go test (i.e., bolt goes into battery completely), it still may be acceptable to shoot. The field gauge gives a little more "leeway" than a no-go set to absolute, fresh-out-of-the box SAAMI standards.

Of course, you can still use the tried and true method of heavy leather gloves and a welders mask........
 
I bought no-go and field gauges for my mosins, didn't bother with a go gauge. I've never had one not headspace successfully though.

This is a good place to get headspace gauges: http://www.lockstock.com/ (and no, they don't ship any 'evil' things to MA, but headspace gauges for the moment are not deemed puppy killing).
 
Prepper - a firing pin gauge should have come with your cleaning kit - if not, you can borrow mine. I have not yet disassembled my bolt, but from the instructions I've seen it looks pretty straight forward. I'm not sure if it was cosmolene or old oil from storage, but like Dench, mine had a gooey layer of something on the bolt which I didn't notice until BillK showed me how to get the bolt out...Brake cleaner erased it. The action is smooth, but after the firing pin drops, it takes a bit of ooomph to get it to cycle. I can't imagine trying to keep the gun on target and chambering another round - I'm sure there's a technique, but I haven't figured it out. Though a bit small, I used my M-14 ratcheting chamber brush to clean out my chamber, using a patch over the brush to finish and it's squeaky clean. There was also a residue on my stock when I got it - like a patina and some simple green took care of that as well. My recent coat of CLP to remove rust had a side benefit of causing the grain to really pop on the last cleaning and the rifle looks absolutely new. My last adventure is finding a way, or finding someone to polish the bolt and the collars for the sling are a bit cracked, so I'd like to find some in better shape. Enjoy your rifle!
 
I used a heat gun to soften up the cosmo when I got my M44. I've heard of others using a handheld steamer. That and brake cleaner got rid of it all. I used a household degreaser for the stock. My M44 did not come with the cleaning kit, but I just used a set of calipers (the depth measuring part) to measure firing pin extension. I imagine a set of feeler gauges could also be used.

Have fun with the big boomers.
 
It might not be cosmoline; looks rather thin, especially compared to the obvious cosmoline that's caked all over an SKS I got a while back (gotta get that cleaned up someday).

So, I shouldn't use Break Free or Gunk Out, etc. on the stock? Just the metal parts?
 
Prepper said:
It might not be cosmoline; looks rather thin, especially compared to the obvious cosmoline that's caked all over an SKS I got a while back (gotta get that cleaned up someday).

So, I shouldn't use Break Free or Gunk Out, etc. on the stock? Just the metal parts?
Click to expand...

Use Simple Green on the stock, (at least it worked for me) and brake cleaner on the internals....
 
Russian stocks have a shellac finish. Some cleaners can damage the finish but even if you do its simple and easy to reflow the shellac but thats another project and story.[wink]

Simple Green will work on your stock, so will any furniture cleaner that is labeled safe for all finishes. Just don't use anything like Pledge that will leave a waxy residue. You don't want it polished and slippery, just clean.



FWIW I still don't know why you guys are using Brake Cleaner when WD40 works just as well and leaves the metal protected.
 
Dench said:
yes sir.
mosblttl.jpg

found here; http://www.tickbitesupply.com/mos.html

if your going to one of the upcoming shoots im sure one of us can show you how its done if you have any questions
Click to expand...

So that's what that funny shaped object is.

Are you all sure that gun scrubber product is safe for the black metal surfaces? It seems to make it "less black", not sure why though.
 
Prepper said:
Are you all sure that gun scrubber product is safe for the black metal surfaces? It seems to make it "less black", not sure why though.
Click to expand...

Because it strips every bit of oil from the gun's surface. I myself don't use it much because of that reason.

I don't think it will harm the bluing but it will often give it a haze that looks almost like flash rust on some parts. If you are using it, make sure you give everything you've used it on a light coat of oil for protection.

If I were to get a Mosin today and wanted to clean it up... The only things I'd have with me is a propper flat blade screwdriver (by that I mean one that is recomended for gunsmithing. Check this link to learn why not all screwdrivers are the same and why most common are wrong for working on guns. http://www.forsterproducts.com/Pages/screwdrivers.htm )

I'd also have a can of Break Free or WD40, about a dozen shop rags, an old toothbrush, a section of cleaning rod with a slotted patch holder and a bag of .30 cal patches, and a couple of nylon sprial brushes like found in spray gun cleaning kits like these: http://www.sjdiscounttools.com/pain...d-gun-cleaning-kits-spray-gun-cleaning-b.html
The Sharpe 8260 kit has an oversized brush thats perfect for cleaning out rifle actions along with smaller sized brushes for getting inside bolt bodies.
 
So, you use Break Free (or WD40) instead of gun scrubber to clean them, and it works out fine?

I do need to get some gun-specific tools. The ones I have now aren't working too well.

Last night, I disassembled the M44 except for the bolt. The only problems I had were the bands resisted coming off; I was able to use a dowel and rubber hammer to tap them loose. Plus, there's a screw with a wide head near the trigger that is keeping the trigger in... that thing won't budge no matter what! (I actually bent the screwdriver's head.) WD40 didn't help. So, I gave up on that screw... it doesn't look too important if I skip that final removal of the trigger.

I didn't clean any of it yet except the stock with Simple Green. Seemed to work well. The finish of the front section of the stock where the arm bands have to slide across aren't in as good condition as the rest of the stock. The rest has a nice cherry finish.

Now I still gotta clean the metal parts, including the bolt, then get it back together.
 
Prepper said:
So, you use Break Free (or WD40) instead of gun scrubber to clean them, and it works out fine?

I do need to get some gun-specific tools. The ones I have now aren't working too well.

Last night, I disassembled the M44 except for the bolt. The only problems I had were the bands resisted coming off; I was able to use a dowel and rubber hammer to tap them loose. Plus, there's a screw with a wide head near the trigger that is keeping the trigger in... that thing won't budge no matter what! (I actually bent the screwdriver's head.) WD40 didn't help. So, I gave up on that screw... it doesn't look too important if I skip that final removal of the trigger.
Click to expand...

I think you're refering to the bolt stop screw. You don't have to take that out. Just follow the info here: http://www.surplusrifle.com/russianmosin189130/rifledisassembly/index.asp

I do use WD40 for the most part to clean cosmolene. WD will remove tree sap, glue, crayon, and tons of other hard to get rid of crap that may get on various things around the house so to me it only made sense that it would get rid of cosmolene and it does.[smile]

As for the Sharpe brush advertised, its a kit with many tools for cleaning spray guns. I just used that link for a quick reference of what type of brush I use to clean rifle chambers with.

Compressed air is also a great thing to use when cleaning surplus rifles and handguns. If you don't have an air compressor, the small aerosol cans of dust off that people use to blow dust out of PC keyboards also works well for getting excess dirt and oil out of tight areas where a rag or Q tip won't reach.
 
Tonight I just WD40-cleaned most of it. Then I realized I don't have a brush or patches for this caliber yet... gotta wait until Tuesday for Four Seasons to be open. The ammo pouch came with a jag but not a brush. It is odd that the cleaning rod isn't long enough, but I guess the Russians must have cleaned it from the muzzle (is that a good idea for me?)

Speaking of the cleaning kit, I'm not 100% sure what everything is in there. I see the bolt takedown tool, a jag, a "T" thing for the end of the cleaning rod that I hold (at least that's what it looks like to me), then two other things... one I found out is a muzzle protector (is that useful?) and the other I'm not sure about... it is 1" long, hollow and has a hole in the side. What is it? I didn't see any patch holder either. I guess the Russians didn't use chamber brushes so I should probably get one of those too.
 
Turns out I DO have a brush... I brain farted or something and forgot that a .30 cal brush is for a 7.62mm. Took about an hour to get the barrel clean... wow, that was coming out black most of the time then lightened up towards the end.

Only problem left is just outside the chamber (and maybe in the chamber too... I can't really tell for sure but it "looks" clean)... there's some kind of "goo", looks like cosmo in little blobs around that "ring shaped thingy" just outside the chamber (what do you call that?) This ring thingy has a groove around 1/3 of it and that really traps stuff. I don't have anything here that can clean that so I need to get something; so those air gun cleaning brushes can clean that? I'm still not sure how. Should I get a chamber brush for this caliber?

What's the "jag" for in the cleaning kit? I tried cleaning the bore with it and it is as loose as can be, does nothing but rattle back and forth. I don't see the use of it; maybe that's why the Russian who owned it before me never cleaned his gun properly. I used my own kit.

The bolt looks really clean, spotless actually (once I cleaned it which was easy to do). I'm not sure what I should be cleaning off of the bolt face to prevent a sticky bolt problem. I haven't taken it apart yet to clean the inside; that's tomorrow's project.
 
Prepper said:
Turns out I DO have a brush... I brain farted or something and forgot that a .30 cal brush is for a 7.62mm. Took about an hour to get the barrel clean... wow, that was coming out black most of the time then lightened up towards the end.

Only problem left is just outside the chamber (and maybe in the chamber too... I can't really tell for sure but it "looks" clean)... there's some kind of "goo", looks like cosmo in little blobs around that "ring shaped thingy" just outside the chamber (what do you call that?) This ring thingy has a groove around 1/3 of it and that really traps stuff. I don't have anything here that can clean that so I need to get something; so those air gun cleaning brushes can clean that? I'm still not sure how. Should I get a chamber brush for this caliber?

What's the "jag" for in the cleaning kit? I tried cleaning the bore with it and it is as loose as can be, does nothing but rattle back and forth. I don't see the use of it; maybe that's why the Russian who owned it before me never cleaned his gun properly. I used my own kit.

The bolt looks really clean, spotless actually (once I cleaned it which was easy to do). I'm not sure what I should be cleaning off of the bolt face to prevent a sticky bolt problem. I haven't taken it apart yet to clean the inside; that's tomorrow's project.
Click to expand...

That is the area than you have to clean or else I can guarantee that you will have "sticky bolt" syndrome. I just brush it until all the gunk is gone (I have an old brass pick that I also use).

A patch is placed in front of the jag to ensure a good contact for cleaning. The jag acts as a "ramrod."

Make sure that you take the bolt apart and clean it well.

Ed
 
Prepper - I used a ratcheting chamber brush from an M-14 with great success on my chamber. It's a little loose, but worked like a charm. You can find them pretty cheap. I soaked the inside of my chamber with bore foam, let it sit for 1/2 hour and used the brush to loosen things up. Then I used two patches wrapped around the brush to squeaky clean it. The jag actually works - especially with Dewey round .30 cal patches, (the best IMHO). Just lay a patch over the bore and push - easy breezy. I used brake cleaner and some 0000 steel wool on the bolt to get off the goop and all is right in the world. Do note: Even if you have this pup squeaky clean - the bolt will hang a bit after the firing pin drops.
 
Bronze shotgun brush on a section of cleaning rod at the end of a cordless drill. That'll smooth any burs and scrub crud out of any Mosin receiver. Just keep it from going into the bore.
 
I took the bolt apart. There's nothing at all dirty about this... it looks like it was oiled properly and put back together yesterday. I guess I should clean anyway then put a little CLP on the firing pin and spring, then put back together?

I didn't take the extractor off; the instructions at surplusrifle.com warn doing this a few times will wear it out and make it impossible to put the extractor back without buying a new bolt; it is just dovetailed in there. Has anyone experienced this? I don't want to mess it up. But, I am now the proud owner of a field gage (couldn't find GO or NO-GO) and I'm supposed to take the extractor off in order to use that gage.
 
Now that I"m scared silly by all of this cleaning action.... I'm trying to figure out where I'm going to dunk my new, as yet picked up, 91/30 (from the recent group buy). [thinking]

Besides that... I have a question.

The rifles come with the ammo pouches. I assume the back of the pouches have loops for a belt.

Was there an issue belt at some point, or did they just use a rope? [rolleyes] I have yet to find any comment about the belt, or where any of the other accessories were carried.

Please try to keep the laughter and pointing to a minimum...

Thanks
 
Jaxon said:
Now that I"m scared silly by all of this cleaning action.... I'm trying to figure out where I'm going to dunk my new, as yet picked up, 91/30 (from the recent group buy). [thinking]

Besides that... I have a question.

The rifles come with the ammo pouches. I assume the back of the pouches have loops for a belt.

Was there an issue belt at some point, or did they just use a rope? [rolleyes] I have yet to find any comment about the belt, or where any of the other accessories were carried.

Please try to keep the laughter and pointing to a minimum...

Thanks
Click to expand...

Will you be joing C-pher and Snowjoker when they come to my house for my class on how to take down their Mosins and clean them free of oil?

If so you may have to bring your own beer. [smile]

As for your question, yes the pouches have belt loops on the back side and they were used on Russian belts. FWIW, your ammo pouch will soon be sitting at the bottom of a box or plastic tote wherever you keep the gun stuff you'll never ever use but still can't bring yourself to get rid of.
Or you can go all out and order some gear from a site like this one: http://www.tridentmilitary.com/Soviet-WW2/ww2-fieldgear.html
 

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