Non-Mass compliant rifle?...it's the MSAR E4

Number 6

Number 6

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Is there such thing as a non-MA compliant rifle which has only TWO evil features?

The one I'm looking at is a bullpup design with high capacity mag capability and flash supressor (NO pistol grip, No folding stock, No bayo lug).

The shop informed me they can't get it because the distributor says its not MA compliant.

I was aware of the EEOPS list and atty general regs for hand guns...but didn't think there was a list for long guns.

Thanks!
Number 6
 
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Number 6 said:
Is there such thing as a non-MA compliant rifle which has only TWO evil features?

The one I'm looking at is a bullpup design with high capacity mag capability and flash supressor (NO pistol grip, No folding stock, No bayo lug).

The shop informed me they can't get it because the distributor says its not MA compliant.

I was aware of the EEOPS list and atty general regs for hand guns...but didn't think there was a list for long guns.

Thanks!
Number 6
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the EEOPS list doesnt apply for rifles.
the stupid AWB does. look at that for all information regarding rifle legality in MA.
 
As Dench said, the EOPS and AG regulations do not apply to long guns. They are only subject to the AWB. From your description, it only has one "evil" feature (flash hider), so it wouldn't be considered an "assault weapon" under the AWB. My guess is that it is not "MA compliant" due to the high capacity magazine.
 
It doesn’t make any difference I have tried to get this type of rifle for some of my customers. High cap and flash hider only 2 evil features, these guns are listed as not AWB approved and no distributor will sell them to a dealer in MA. This is kind of crazy because as a dealer you should be able to buy anything. The distributors are being over careful and a pain. It makes it imposable for dealers in MA. to get anything deemed AWB from a distributer let alone try to sell it. They just won’t sell or ship.
One of the basic problems with a rifle of this type is it is sold with magazines of greater then 10 rounds and none of the manaufacturers will make a model with a 10 round mag. only and this is what makes these guns a non AWB gun. The distributors will not swap out mags. and I am not even sure if they did this would be OK because the gun comes from the manufacture with hicaps.
No special MA. or AWB state guns, like how S&W makes a version of the M&P15 as a special AWB state rifle.
 
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Number 6 said:
Is there such thing as a non-MA compliant rifle which has only TWO evil features?

The one I'm looking at is a bullpup design with high capacity mag capability and flash supressor (NO pistol grip, No folding stock, No bayo lug).
Click to expand...

"high capacity mag capability" is not an evil feature. The rifle needs to be semi-automatic and have the ability to accept a detachable magazine before it can possibly be an "Assault Weapon". Although you don't state it, I'm assuming it has both these prerequisites. Once that is determined, it has to have at least two 'evil features' to be an "Assault Weapon". It sounds like it only has one evil feature, the flash suppressor. If this is so, then the rifle is not an illegal "Assault Weapon" and is legal to possess in MA with the appropriate license.

However, I think Remsport has hit on the correct answer. The distributors and unwilling to send large capacity magazines to MA dealers (even though that is legal), and will not substitute the large capacity magazines out, so they won't ship the whole gun 'package' either. It's CYA more than anything else.
 
vellnueve said:
I'm pretty sure he's looking at the FS2000, which is MA legal.
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Yeah, I have one. The disty's wont ship one that is not AWB compliant to MA. But FN does regularly make runs where they pop a 10 rounder in the box and relabel it for MA/CA/NY/etc*. So with some patience, one can get an FN. The OP just needs to give their dealer some time to find one. They are behind like everyone else. A year ago it took me 3 months to get one.

* Lets face it, the whole thing was designed to be AWB friendly from the get go. It is a milspec firearm that by nature of it's design, does not fall under the AWB. Take that Brady!
 
jdubois said:
"high capacity mag capability" is not an evil feature. The rifle needs to be semi-automatic and have the ability to accept a detachable magazine before it can possibly be an "Assault Weapon". Although you don't state it, I'm assuming it has both these prerequisites. Once that is determined, it has to have at least two 'evil features' to be an "Assault Weapon". It sounds like it only has one evil feature, the flash suppressor. If this is so, then the rifle is not an illegal "Assault Weapon" and is legal to possess in MA with the appropriate license...
Click to expand...

I'm not sure, but could the 2nd "evil" feature be exposable barrel threads??? I can't remember if that was one of the no-no's or not....?
 
Big Joe said:
I'm not sure, but could the 2nd "evil" feature be exposable barrel threads??? I can't remember if that was one of the no-no's or not....?
Click to expand...

Yes, that is an "evil feature", but it's the same one as the flash suppressor. A flash suppressor and a threaded barrel count as only one evil feature. If this is the FS2000, I believe the flash suppressor is permanently attached on that gun anyway.
 
Ah, ok...I wasn't sure if exposable threads were considered a separate item or not, thanks for clarifying.
 
I had the same problem with ordering an AR-10T from my local shop. The distributor claimed it was restricted and the dealer said sorry. I called Armalite and they said it was ok (10 round mag). I just marched up to NH and ordered one. Also saved the sales tax.
 
Thanks for all the replies. The rifle I'm looking at is the MSAR e4. It's the same as all the other MSARs except it accepts the AR-15 magazine.

As far as I can tell it only has 2 (TWO) evil features -
1. the flash hider/ suppressor
and
2. the ability to accept high capacity magazines.

My understanding was that you can have TWO features and be ok...but not three. By this understanding is should be ok....no?

Every AR15 for sale in the state is MA ok, pistol grip and high capacity magazine. What would make the newest MSAR different from this...or the other acceptable MSARs for sale?

The only thing I can think of is the overly cautious dealers. But what makes this more risky really?

Number 6
 
Number 6 said:
Every AR15 for sale in the state is MA ok, pistol grip and high capacity magazine. What would make the newest MSAR different from this...or the other acceptable MSARs for sale?

The only thing I can think of is the overly cautious dealers. But what makes this more risky really?

Number 6
Click to expand...

New high capacity magazines are NOT MA compliant. The sunsetted national AWB is still in effect in MA so the only high capacity mags allowed in MA would be of the 'pre-ban' era. The rifle may very well be MA OK, it is the fact that it ships with new high capacity magazines that has the distributors all in a snit. I don't blame them.
 
The MSAR has a pistol grip. The fact that it has a cutlass-style trigger guard versus a normal trigger guard is of no consequence.

Take off the flash suppressor and substitute your favorite pinned muzzle accessory and you're all set.
 
Number 6 said:
Thanks for all the replies. The rifle I'm looking at is the MSAR e4. It's the same as all the other MSARs except it accepts the AR-15 magazine.

As far as I can tell it only has 2 (TWO) evil features -
1. the flash hider/ suppressor
and
2. the ability to accept high capacity magazines.

My understanding was that you can have TWO features and be ok...but not three. By this understanding is should be ok....no?

Every AR15 for sale in the state is MA ok, pistol grip and high capacity magazine. What would make the newest MSAR different from this...or the other acceptable MSARs for sale?

The only thing I can think of is the overly cautious dealers. But what makes this more risky really?

Number 6
Click to expand...



The ability to accept detachable magazines is one of the prerequisites to be defined as an "Assault Weapon", but is NOT one of the evil features.

The MSAR has two evil features; the pistol grip and the flash suppressor/threaded barrel. Since you cant really get rid of the pistol grip, like someone else said, go get your favorite non-flash suppressing muzzle device pinned onto the barrel.
 
I had planned to get an E4 myself but this throws a monkey wrench into that plan. And it gets to be more fun as I am left handed for rifle shooting.
 
terraformer said:
Yeah, I have one. The disty's wont ship one that is not AWB compliant to MA. But FN does regularly make runs where they pop a 10 rounder in the box and relabel it for MA/CA/NY/etc*. So with some patience, one can get an FN. The OP just needs to give their dealer some time to find one. They are behind like everyone else. A year ago it took me 3 months to get one.
Click to expand...

This whole thing is easily avoided.

Just buy it in NH and throw the mag in the trash before you cross the border. (Or better yet, give it to an NH NESer!)

ETA: Of course, don't forget to file an FA-10 on it when you get back. [grin]

-Mike
 
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This is weird because North Shore Firearms has an MSAR or did in stock a month ago seeing as the only difference is one will take AUG mags and the other AR 15 mags. Makes no sense to me but what do I know.
 
I have been drooling over the rifle since I heard about the E4 that just got released. It takes standard AR mags! Taint cheap, but a really nice rifle.

Nope, you can get these MA legal. The gun store in my town has one (an E3) for sale. From the AR15 forum (bullpup section), I think they will ship you one (your dealer) with a 10 rd mag and a compensator. The CEO of the company answers emails on the forum there. either way, you can have a gunsmith change out the flash hider. You can get great deals on the E3 (does not take AR mags), and for $550 send it back to MSAR and they will upgrade the stock and send it back.

highlander said:
I had planned to get an E4 myself but this throws a monkey wrench into that plan. And it gets to be more fun as I am left handed for rifle shooting.
Click to expand...
 
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You can buy a left hand bolt assy from MSAR and convert it over to lefty pretty easily. Or order it that way.

highlander said:
I had planned to get an E4 myself but this throws a monkey wrench into that plan. And it gets to be more fun as I am left handed for rifle shooting.
Click to expand...
 

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