NH alert: Constitutional Carry, SB116, TODAY!, 1pm NH House

mikem317 said:
Hi JR,

If we weren't available to go to the hearing, can we write and send a letter to which you could read/deliver on our behalf?

Again, still contemplating making the arrangements, time off, etc. to make it to Concord this Thursday.

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OK, what's the "drop off" time? Just trying to line stuff up to see if I can make it. Like everyone else, I have commitments on both ends of the hearing. So maybe 12:30 PM to 3:30 PM? 4:00 PM?
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I arrived on time for the 1589 hearing. Due to the number of speakers who got there early and signed up to speak I didn't speak until about 2.5 hours later. If you want to speak, show up early or you will be waiting hours to speak.
 
nhpoke said:
Amazingly in 60 years they've also not managed to be killed by any of us "gun nuts". Hmmm.
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I hate numskulls like that. I've had a fire extinguisher in my house since I've lived there, and my grandparents have always had one around too. And never had to use it. So by that retard's logic, we don't need fire extinguishers?

-Mike
 
nhpoke said:
Is there any data avilable on how many "in-state" P&R Licenses have been issued or are active? I can make my argument without the data, but real numbers would also be helpful.
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Nope. No data. Unless you have the time to contact each of the 120+ towns in NH for how many conceal carry license holders they have...
 
soloman02 said:
Nope. No data. Unless you have the time to contact each of the 120+ towns in NH for how many conceal carry license holders they have...
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Exactly what I figured. Thanks for confirming.
(This might be an interesting exercise anyway, but unfortunately there's no time to accomplish it before the hearing and now I'm getting off topic).
 
A first draft of my letter. It could still use cleaning up.

I'm not going to use all of this. It's already too long. Just some random ideas. Feel free to run with anything that hits you.

Senator ???

I’m sending this email in support of SB116, which I understand is scheduled to be heard by the Senate Judiciary committee this Thursday. Unfortunately I’m not going to be available to testify in person with the committee to express my support for this bill, so I am trying to communicate my support in this email.
Cost

The analysis for SB116 indicates that the state currently issues approximately 9,800 out of state Pistol and Revolver licenses a year at a cost of $100 each. The impact of this bill, they estimate would reduce general fund revenue by as much as $900,000. This analysis seems reasonable. We would still have some number of people wanting Pistol and Revolver license, but about 10% of current levels seems reasonable. The part that is not addressed, however, is the actual cost of issuing those licenses. NH State police are estimated make an average salary of $61,260. Doing just a little math, we arrive at the fact that NH State police earn an hourly wage of approximately $34.65. Accounting for other benefits like pension, insurance etc, a conservative estimate is probably 1.5X Actual Salary or $51.97.
I have no information on what happens in the State Police offices when an out of state Pistol and Revolver Licenses request is received. I can tell you that if an officer spends more than 2 hours from the time it hits the mail room until the time that the laminated license is returned to the applicant that is costing the state money.
In state Pistol and Revolver Licenses cost $10.00 each, but it is the responsibility of the local authority to issue those. Assuming that local police make half of what state police make (which I suspect is low), that means that for each license application officers processing them cannot spend more than 23 minutes from the time it hits the door until the time that the application is returned to the applicant, or the town is losing money on this unfunded state mandate. If the Pistol and Revolver license law were being passed today, it would be considered a violation of Article 28-a of the New Hampshire Constitution. Don’t we have more important things to focus law enforcement on that the filling out of paperwork so that people can exercise the rights that are already guaranteed them?
It’s New Hampshire...

The words “Live Free or Die” were coined by General John Stark on July 31, 1809. The people of NH hold these words in high regard. So high, in fact, that in 1971 the NH Legislature decided to make it a requirement that all non-commercial license plates contain the words “Live Free or Die” as part of RSA 261:75. To finish General Stark’s toast, the entire phrase is “Live free or die: Death is not the worst of evils.” Implying that living under oppression, and without freedom and liberty, is, in fact worse than death. There are many people in the state of NH who truly believe in this concept. NH is even attracting people because of this belief and the promise of freedom that our great state offers.

Why should you support this bill?
Because it is logical. Anyone not prohibited from owning a weapon today can carry that weapon around to most places within the state with the weapon loaded, as long as it is not concealed. No special permission required. No license required. We afford people the right to defend themselves. These rights are protected by both the US and the NH Constitution. As soon as that person gets into a car, unless they have a Pistol and Revolver Permit, they are breaking the law. Why? Because being in a car is considered concealing the weapon. If it’s cold, and someone decides to wear a jacket that “obscures” their perfectly legal weapon, that “may” be concealed (and could become a significant headache for both law enforcement and the individual to reconcile the exact definition of concealed). The difference in “danger” between a non-prohibited person carrying a weapon concealed vs. carrying a weapon “open” is non existent to everyone but the person doing the carrying.

Because it provides an example for other locales to follow. There are some locales that in recent years have passed so called model legislation on gun control. In many cases they see the laws that they have passed as examples of what other places should do so that fewer people have access to weapons. These types of laws are inherently ineffective in keeping weapons out of the hands of criminals, in that only law abiding people follow them. Criminals, however, do not. Criminals in possession of weapons in locations where they are sure they are the only ones with weapons provide them with a much greater opportunity to act illegally as they are reasonably sure that they will not face anything that counters the level of force they have. In New Hampshire we do not have a huge “gun violence” problem, like other places such as Washington D.C., New York City, Chicago and California, etc. where there are very strict (but given the current evidence ineffective) gun laws. These “strict” gun laws are also being challenged (and stricken down) in courts across the land, however doing so requires significant investment from both the state and the individuals involved. It is already against federal law for criminals to possess firearms. We don’t need to complicate the issue. We are much more like our neighbors, Vermont, where constitutional carry is already supported. This bill removes an existing legal differentiation that has no real impact on violence, but to add to the number of RSA’s that we have to track and enforce. The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the government - Tacitus.

Because even law abiding gun owners deserve protection. As is documented in an article by National Review a practice known as “SWATting” is becoming popular with those who wish to ban guns of any kind, where police are called anytime anyone carrying a gun is seen. The argument is that “if we call police enough when we see open carry, things will escalate and more laws will be passed preventing it”. Providing people the ability to conceal their weapon, at all times, would make it so that law abiding gun owners are not getting tackled walking into Wal-mart like it did just last week in Florida. People have the right to bear arms for their protection. There is no need for us to make a technical differentiation between having a weapon inside vs. outside of my belt. People are getting attacked for exhibiting their right to posses weapons for their own protection.
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I have one more section on Women's rights that I'm thinking of writing, but with too much already, it's probably better that I focus and close well.
 
nhpoke said:
A first draft of my letter. It could still use cleaning up.

I'm not going to use all of this. It's already too long. Just some random ideas. Feel free to run with anything that hits you.



I have one more section on Women's rights that I'm thinking of writing, but with too much already, it's probably better that I focus and close well.
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BTW, the numbers are whacked. Here are the two previous bills that had fiscal notes.

The HB330 fiscal note said $750,000 in March 2011.
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/legislation/2012/HB0330.html

The HB536 fiscal note stated $625,000 according to the September 2011 revision.

I think these numbers are all bullshit. Further because the dems changed the non-resident fee to $100 in the 2009 budget, there was no fiscal note nor any mention of how many non-residents had licenses when the rate was $20. I have a feeling we made more money with the $20 rate than the $100 rate because as usual, the dems changed something they have zero knowledge about. Many people across the country picked up an NH license because it got them a couple more states and was only $20 for 4 years, and didn't require a class (which adds to the difficulty/cost). But at $100, they said screw it.

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/legislation/2011/HB0536.html
 
I don't personally know anybody that still has a valid non-res NH P&R license after the Dems quadrupled the price. Used to be commonplace.

My guess is that many ME and MA folks that come to NH are just unloading them before going into a vehicle now.
 
mikem317 said:
I don't personally know anybody that still has a valid non-res NH P&R license after the Dems quadrupled the price. Used to be commonplace.

My guess is that many ME and MA folks that come to NH are just unloading them before going into a vehicle now.
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Actually it is very convenient and advantageous to have a NH non-res P&R, especially those of us who like to be armed while in our vehicles, don't like to open carry in places like Manchester or Nashua and who aren't fond of open carry...period (nothing against those who do). Also factor in that those of us who live on the border frequently weave in and out of the two states and there are times when I can't exactly tell you if I am in NH or MA. The problem with your general statement is that it is not well thought out, and that you are trying to be wise and folksy. It's worth 100 bucks to me to have a hassle free CCW permit. I hope that constitutional carry passes in NH, but if it doesn't, it's no big deal, I can afford the fee and it's worth every penny IMO. The old fee was better, but you guys got greedy up there, but isn't that what capitalism is all about? Charge what the market will bear.
 
mikem317 said:
I don't personally know anybody that still has a valid non-res NH P&R license after the Dems quadrupled the price. Used to be commonplace.

My guess is that many ME and MA folks that come to NH are just unloading them before going into a vehicle now.
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Or maybe not. Carrying without a license in NH is an unclassified misdemeanor, which usually means it is a class B. Meaning no jail time and just a fine. For the first offense. The second offense within a 7 year period is a felony.
 
soloman02 said:
Or maybe not. Carrying without a license in NH is an unclassified misdemeanor, which usually means it is a class B. Meaning no jail time and just a fine. For the first offense. The second offense within a 7 year period is a felony.
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Brilliant...so I carry concealed without a P&R in NH, get an unclassified misdemeanor and when I reapply for my Mass Resident LTC it shows up, No Big Deal you say? Well we are back to that suitability thing. Think it might not show up? Well to quote Dirty Harry: "Do ya feel lucky punk, do ya?" especially when you have to answer that pesky question about whether you have ever appeared in court...[rolleyes]
 
mark056 said:
Brilliant...so I carry concealed without a P&R in NH, get an unclassified misdemeanor and when I reapply for my Mass Resident LTC it shows up, No Big Deal you say? Well we are back to that suitability thing. Think it might not show up? Well to quote Dirty Harry: "Do ya feel lucky punk, do ya?" especially when you have to answer that pesky question about whether you have ever appeared in court...[rolleyes]
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I was merely referring to the current penalty and why some people may choose to ignore the law, particularly those that live in VT or Maine. And based upon the new Mass law that passed, it would be harder for a CoP to prove one is dangerous for a violation level misdemeanor on ones record.
 
mikem317 said:
I don't personally know anybody that still has a valid non-res NH P&R license after the Dems quadrupled the price. Used to be commonplace.
.
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So then that huge permit backlog a year or two ago, those were just imaginary renewals and applications? [rofl]

I agree some people have dumped their nonres P/R but a whole new troupe of people have signed up, too.

-Mike
 
mark056 said:
The old fee was better, but you guys got greedy up there, but isn't that what capitalism is all about? Charge what the market will bear.
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But the License is good for four years. Mass Non-Res LTC is $100/yr. The Only reason Mass does not recognize any one else's CCW is they don't get the $$$ from doing it.
Now, let's talk about who is the greedy State?

Malodave
 
mark056 said:
Actually it is very convenient and advantageous to have a NH non-res P&R, especially those of us who like to be armed while in our vehicles, don't like to open carry in places like Manchester or Nashua and who aren't fond of open carry...period (nothing against those who do). Also factor in that those of us who live on the border frequently weave in and out of the two states and there are times when I can't exactly tell you if I am in NH or MA. The problem with your general statement is that it is not well thought out, and that you are trying to be wise and folksy. It's worth 100 bucks to me to have a hassle free CCW permit. I hope that constitutional carry passes in NH, but if it doesn't, it's no big deal, I can afford the fee and it's worth every penny IMO. The old fee was better, but you guys got greedy up there, but isn't that what capitalism is all about? Charge what the market will bear.
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I think you misunderstood me. I personally know people that used to have non-res NH P&Rs but opted not because of the price hike. I also find it abhorrent that any state, NH, MA or others that charge what's basically a poll tax to exercise a Constitutionally-guaranteed right.

State-generated fees != Capitalism.
 
cekim said:
I have one... [smile] FL too.
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drgrant said:
So then that huge permit backlog a year or two ago, those were just imaginary renewals and applications? [rofl]

I agree some people have dumped their nonres P/R but a whole new troupe of people have signed up, too.

-Mike
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I didn't say everybody dropped their non-res P&Rs, only everyone that I know. Or they weren't planning on renewing when there's come up for renewal.

Can't say I blame them. And it's basic economics; raise the price and demand will drop. The folks that were not planning on getting their non-res P&Rs (or not renewing) were just going to unload or OC.

Remember, NH upping there's from $20 to $100 was basically an FU to MA who did it fur

Malodave said:
But the License is good for four years. Mass Non-Res LTC is $100/yr. The Only reason Mass does not recognize any one else's CCW is they don't get the $$$ from doing it.
Now, let's talk about who is the greedy State?

Malodave
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Yeah, $100/year is a kick in the shins/balls especially for folks making minimum wage or are generally hired for lower-skill work. Plus the yearly hajj to Chelsea to pay tribute to MA. [thinking]
 
soloman02 said:
Or maybe not. Carrying a loaded, concealed revolver/pistol without a license in NH is an unclassified misdemeanor, which usually means it is a class B. Meaning no jail time and just a fine. For the first offense. The second offense within a 7 year period is a felony.
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FIFY
 
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Sending this one along shortly...

Dear Senator John Reagan,

We have previously corresponded on gun rights in New Hampshire and I sincerely appreciate your commitment to defending and strengthening our self-defense rights guaranteed to us via United States and New Hampshire Constitutions.

Please consider sponsoring and voting in support SB116 which would make the current requirement of acquiring a Pistol & Revolver License for those wishing to carry concealed an optional process. I’m know you’ll agree with me: Our right of self-defense shouldn’t require the approval of the state. Moreover, it’s already proscribed into US and NH law that certain individuals are banned from possessing or acquiring firearms (e.g. federally prohibited persons such as felons) and SB116 will not change this. Requiring both residents and non-residents to ask for a “permission slip” before exercising a Constitutionally-guaranteed right is tantamount to a poll tax and we should be ashamed that this requirement still exists in the “Live Free or Die” state - we shouldn’t try to shore up state coffers on the backs of hard-working, law-abiding individuals. If made into law, SB116 would free up precious police resources that can be repurposed to maintaining New Hampshire’s “Safest State” status.

We can expect the usual bellyaching from liberty-loathing detractors. Their prognostications are empty and void of fact.

Other states have successfully implemented “Constitutional carry” like Alaska, Arizona, Wyoming, Arkansas and most of Montana. A notable example is our neighbor to the west, Vermont, via a 1903 state Supreme Court case. Should SB116 become law, it would create the first contiguous Constitutional carry states in the country.

Let’s make history. Please sponsor and vote in support of SB116.

Regards,
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