Negligent Shooting -- 1911

[Cross-X]

Herriman man dies after accidental shooting in Rush Valley

By Lindsay Whitehurst
The Salt Lake Tribune
Article Last Updated: 06/08/2008 03:15:24 PM MDT

Posted: 2:35 PM- A Herriman man is dead after an acquaintance accidently shot him in the back Saturday, police said.

About 9:30 p.m., four men were working on a yard in Rush Valley for an upcoming wedding when the conversation turned to guns, Tooele County Sheriff's Department Sgt. Jason Sparks said.

The homeowner has an extensive gun collection, Sparks said, and he brought out a .45-caliber Springfield model 1911 handgun. A 66-year-old guest from out of state slid the rack back as he looked at the weapon.

The guest, who holds a concealed weapons permit, checked if the gun was loaded, Sparks said, but did not see a bullet in the magazine.

Sliding the rack raised the hammer, and to drop it, the man had to pull the trigger. When he did, the bullet shot from the gun and hit the 41-year-old Herriman man in the back. He was pronounced dead at the scene.

Police did not release the name of either man, and are investigating to decide whether charges should be filed. The two men knew each other, Sparks said. Their children are friends.

Rush Valley is located about 10 miles south of Tooele.

http://www.sltrib.com/News/ci_9522682

 

[SOLVS LVPVS]

What a shame.

 

[KMaurer]

Definitely criminal negligence, if not manslaughter. Who the hell pulls the trigger on a supposedly unloaded gun while pointing it at a "friend"? Of course the moron didn't bother doing a real chamber check using his finger, or bother to lower the hammer gently.

Ken

 

[tele_mark]

+1

No excuse. Fuddsville. next stop! Hell, I'll bet I look like a moron to most people. Most times, if I put down a gun I've checked and pick it up 5 minutes later, I check to see it its loaded.

 

[jdubois]

1) Why did the owner hand someone a loaded gun to inspect?

2) Why was the guy pointing the gun at somebody's back?

3) So I guess there is a good reason for why I always hold the hammer with my thumb on my 1911 when I'm letting it drop like the man was doing here.

 

[JonJ]

Another poster child for the Brady's. Dope.

 

[Raoul Duke]

This mans stupidity will cost more than his and his friends families.

 

[clinotus]

Sad to hear of this mans death.

Lot of detail in that article, seems more like a technical writeup.

 

[Big_Red]

If I give someone a gun to "check out" the magazine is always out and the chamber gets checked at least three times. Then, if the person holding the gun decided to point it at me or anyone else they get yelled at or smacked upside the head (depending on how well I know them).

I hope that alcohol wasn't involved in this particular case.

 

[Marcus in the Darkus]

Rule #1: Treat ALL guns as if they're loaded - nope.
Rule #2: ALWAYS keep the gun pointed in a safe direction - nope.
Rule #3: ALWAYS keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot - nope.

Moron. There is simply no excuse.

 

[CRSIII]

F'ing tragic.

 

[Scrivener]

How can you NOT see a .45 ACP cartridge sitting on top of the mag in a 1911?

Another reason why I always drop the hammer with the gun aimed at a berm, the ground, anyplace but at a person or likely richochet point.

 

[clinotus]

Rule #1: Treat ALL guns as if they're loaded - nope.
Rule #2: ALWAYS keep the gun pointed in a safe direction - nope.
Rule #3: ALWAYS keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot - nope.

Moron. There is simply no excuse.

Another thing that should be hammered home, though I dont see it often is that you accept no gun from anyone unless the action is open. For revolvers it should be handed to you with two fingers through the well(?). I think in so many years I've gotten to the habit of just keeping my hands at my sides until the person corrects it.

 

[Lugnut]

Definitely criminal negligence, if not manslaughter. Who the hell pulls the trigger on a supposedly unloaded gun while pointing it at a "friend"? Of course the moron didn't bother doing a real chamber check using his finger, or bother to lower the hammer gently.

Ken

Not trying to justify this in anyway.. however- I can't believe how many people can't keep their F'ing fingers off the trigger when handling guns. Go to any local gun shop and watch.... oh and I'm not talking about when people are actually dry firing the guns. I'm talking about when they pick it up to check it out! People can be stupid.

 

[Mass-diver]

Another thing that should be hammered home, though I dont see it often is that you accept no gun from anyone unless the action is open. For revolvers it should be handed to you with two fingers through the well(?). I think in so many years I've gotten to the habit of just keeping my hands at my sides until the person corrects it.

Ditto. The person passing the gun removes the mag and opens the action. It's very bad form to hand someone a pistol with the action closed. Of course, like most gun accidents, these guys broke all the rules. Very sad.

 

[packingungal]

Nothing to add...

 

[Jose]

I can't believe how many people can't keep their F'ing fingers off the trigger when handling guns.

+1

I've actually cut short basic gun lessons to friends who could not grasp that simple concept after repeated reminders and admonitions.

 

[M1911]

I've actually cut short basic gun lessons to friends who could not grasp that simple concept after repeated reminders and admonitions.

Been there. Unfortunately, there are some folks that I don't trust with a pointed stick, let alone a firearm.

 

[The Goose]

Yesterday I mounted a scope on a new rifle. When I took the rifle out of the safe I immediately opened the bolt, did a visual and finger check and then removed the bolt, before bringing it down to my shop. A thought flashed through my mind that I already knew that the rifle was unloaded and in fact I did not even have any ammo for it at the time. Never the less I treat ALL guns as if they're loaded all of the time, period. A moment of caution costs NOTHING, the price for carelessness could cost everything.

 

[gene]

Only a very stupid person would ever point a gun at someone with no intention of shooting said person loaded or not!

 

[jdubois]

A thought flashed through my mind that I already knew that the rifle was unloaded and in fact I did not even have any ammo for it at the time. Never the less I treat ALL guns as if they're loaded all of the time, period. A moment of caution costs NOTHING, the price for carelessness could cost everything.

+1. I check my guns when they come out of or go into the safe, when they come out of or go into a case, before or after I'm shooting, before and after I allow anybody else to handle them, and any time they're out of my sight for any amount of time. I sometimes feel foolish checking a gun I know without a doubt is unloaded, but I figure the habit will save me some day from doing something stupid.

 

[ateamrob]

Rule #1: Treat ALL guns as if they're loaded - nope.
Rule #2: ALWAYS keep the gun pointed in a safe direction - nope.
Rule #3: ALWAYS keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot - nope.

Moron. There is simply no excuse.

ABSOLUTELY!!!! 100% true statement...

Its stupid people like this that make our lives miserable with the antis.....

Jerks.....

[sad2]

 

[45collector]

I had a shotgun given to me because the owner didn't realize it was fully loaded with one in the chamber and the safety off when he handed it to me.
It was a friend of the family and he was showing it to me. it had been sitting in a closet like that for at least a few years. first thing I did was hit the pump release and check the chamber. after explaining to him what he did wrong (everything) he said "take it. I had no idea it was even loaded."
NEVER TRUST THE OTHER GUY'S SAFETY HABITS, NO MATTER HOW WELL YOU KNOW THEM.

 

[Timbob1]

Wow.
Even my four year old knows not to point guns at anything you are not intending to shoot.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

...and check the chamber

I had a similar thing occur when someone handed me an HK91 from the back of his truck to "try out the trigger". This was an experienced shooter who immediately knew what he did wrong. Unfortunately, he did not follow up with "take it" like you friend with the shotgun did .

Develop the habit of checking and it becomes so automatic you do it without thinking. I may take decades, but you could run into a situation where it pays off.

 

[bishop375]

Develop the habit of checking and it becomes so automatic you do it without thinking. I may take decades, but you could run into a situation where it pays off.

I had a safety malfunction on an airsoft pistol ONCE. (Yes, airsoft. It's been a hobby for 8 years.) But I accidentally shot a friend in the hand.

That was the only less I've ever needed... even with airsoft, I hand it open, unloaded, and follow all safety measures.

It's nice that I've made it instinctual before getting into real steel.

 

[jairadio]

Remember what you were taught

Another thing that should be hammered home, though I dont see it often is that you accept no gun from anyone unless the action is open. For revolvers it should be handed to you with two fingers through the well(?). I think in so many years I've gotten to the habit of just keeping my hands at my sides until the person corrects it.

That is exactly how I handle all my firearms, I was taught that years ago when I took the "Basic Safety Pistol" course. I even go a step further, if it is a J frame, when removing the ammo I count out the number of rounds I am removing, show it to whoever I am handing it to, so they know it is totally unloaded. Remember, you cannot go back in time, and change the situation. Safety, safety, safety, a gun owners best friend.

 

[ateamrob]

I had a shotgun given to me because the owner didn't realize it was fully loaded with one in the chamber and the safety off when he handed it to me.
It was a friend of the family and he was showing it to me. it had been sitting in a closet like that for at least a few years. first thing I did was hit the pump release and check the chamber. after explaining to him what he did wrong (everything) he said "take it. I had no idea it was even loaded."
NEVER TRUST THE OTHER GUY'S SAFETY HABITS, NO MATTER HOW WELL YOU KNOW THEM.

Wow... that is scary... at least the guy knew enough to get rid of it seeing as he did not have the basic safety knowledge to own it. Sounds like it must have scared the crap out of him to the point where he didn't even want it around anymore.

Another thing that should be hammered home, though I dont see it often is that you accept no gun from anyone unless the action is open. For revolvers it should be handed to you with two fingers through the well(?). I think in so many years I've gotten to the habit of just keeping my hands at my sides until the person corrects it.

yeah I agree. I always hand any weapon to someone I am showing it to with an open action after I have checked it and made sure they saw me check it.

 

[M1911]

+1. I check my guns when they come out of or go into the safe, when they come out of or go into a case, before or after I'm shooting, before and after I allow anybody else to handle them, and any time they're out of my sight for any amount of time. I sometimes feel foolish checking a gun I know without a doubt is unloaded, but I figure the habit will save me some day from doing something stupid.

Yup. You have to check each and every time you pick up a firearm.

A couple of years back a buddy of mine was at the range shooting his AR15. When he was finished, he locked the bolt carrier back on his AR15 and put it in his case. While he was policing his brass, he found a live .223 cartridge that someone had dropped at the range, so he tossed that in his rifle case with his AR15. You can see where this story is going...

So he gets home, puts the case downstairs and has dinner. After dinner, he goes to clean the rifle. Before he field strips the rifle, he closes the bolt and was just about to dry fire. He realized that he hadn't checked the chamber, but he knew it was empty since the rifle was already definitely unloaded when he put the rifle in the case.

Fortunately for him, he decided he really should check the chamber. So he pulled back on the charging handle and out flew the live cartridge that he'd picked up off the ground. Somewhere between the range and his house, the cartridge that had been rolling around in the rifle case had worked its way through the ejection port or magazine well and into the chamber. He was really, really close to "dry" firing that rifle in his basement.

Each and every time you pick up a firearm you have to check its load status. No exceptions.

 

[jdubois]

Somewhere between the range and his house, the cartridge that had been rolling around in the rifle case had worked its way through the ejection port or magazine well and into the chamber.

Yow! Great example of why you can't trust what you think you know!