Every story like this I think how stupid is that we don't have CCW reciprocity. Then I think of Scott Brown. Then I get angry.
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Next time:
Cop 1: i stopped you for speeding, license and reg please
Me: *crickets*
Do you have to get out of the car legally if they are telling you to get out of the car?
Refusing to provide a driver license in MA is arrestable misdemeanor. You actually acknowledge that when you sign for your license. If people ever read the fine print it would blow their mind as to what they consent to
No I do not consent to a search as he is cuffed and standing in the cold while the cops who are on the clock sit in their warm cruiser drinking coffee while waiting for a search warrant that may or may not come in the next 6 hrs.
Let's start with calling this a big screw up with a happy ending and an education as opposed to a cold shower after a strip search and a stale sandwich
Dave
Refusing to provide a driver license in MA is arrestable misdemeanor. You actually acknowledge that when you sign for your license. If people ever read the fine print it would blow their mind as to what they consent to
Everything you could've done wrong, you did wrong.
I've had plenty of people refuse to grant me consent to search their vehicles. Wanna know what happens? I don't search their vehicle, I don't find some worthless quarter ounce of skunk weed that I didn't even care about in the first place, I don't end up having to arrest them, and I don't have to do hours of paperwork. Seriously, I get paid whether you assert your rights or not, but if you do assert your rights I often have a lot less BS work to do. Most cops are a lot less vindictive than people here realize.
Supervisor: Why didn't you hook that guy up!!!!
Me: I stopped him. He refused consent. I let him go. I got Subway. Want some of my chips?
Supervisor: Subway's open this late?
Me: The one at the truck stop is.
Supervisor: Awesome, I'm starving. I'll catch you later.
^That conversation actually happened one night.
Reminds me of a funny story. Back when I was on active duty we were doing some training one day that involved checking out a bunch of humvees from the motorpool. Checking out a humvee involved filling out a vehicle inspection checklist and a signing a bunch of forms. Well, the battalion career planner (recruiter for people that are already enlisted) had gotten together with the master sergeant that ran the motorpool to play a little practical joke on us. He slipped re-enlistment paperwork in with the vehicle checkout forms, and a bunch of us pretty much ended up re-enlisting because no one ever reads any of the forms they sign when they check out a vehicle.
Don't ever consent to a search! They can only legally detain you for 20 minutes, you said you were out therefor 15 already. Also don't handle your gun at all when getting pulled over!
Quit beating up on the guy.
Don't ever consent to a search! They can only legally detain you for 20 minutes, you said you were out therefor 15 already. Also don't handle your gun at all when getting pulled over!
Do you have a cite for that? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I know for a fact that we have no time limit whatsoever.
There is case law in some states and maybe the feds too where the length of the stop can turn it into a seizure. I am betting this is the source of his statement but I don't know of anything specifying 20 minutes.
Another note: In Massachusetts, the police cannot issue an exit order based solely on a traffic stop. They must articulate some reason they were unsafe or uneasy.
There is case law in some states and maybe the feds too where the length of the stop can turn it into a seizure. I am betting this is the source of his statement but I don't know of anything specifying 20 minutes.
Every officer is like him? No, of course not.
As I think back to the times I've been stopped:
1976, suburban Chicago area, peeled out at a traffic light, the cop yelled and screamed at me, no ticket. I deserved the yelling as I was driving like an idiot.
1977, suburban Chicago area, 10 over in a 35, 15 over in a school zone. The officer was very polite, told me to slow it down, no ticket.
1977, suburban Chicago area, 19 over in a 20 zone (not a school zone), got a ticket. The officer was very professional and very polite.
1978, Chicago, turning left at a no left turn sign, got a ticket. The officer was a bit terse, but professional, didn't yell at me in any way.
1980, West Virginia highway patrol, 69 in a 55, got a ticket. Trooper was very professional and polite.
~1995, Mass State Trooper, burned out headlight, got a warning. Trooper was very professional and polite.
~2005, suburban Boston area, 40 in a 25, got a warning. Officer was very professional and polite.
Yes, some cops have bad days. Some just suck no matter what. Yes, if you are polite and show respect you are more likely to get the same back.
But being polite and showing respect doesn't mean you have to consent to a search. Yes, they may still search regardless, but if you didn't consent then your lawyer has a chance to argue that the search was illegal; consent and you've taken away your lawyer's ammunition.
I agree with everything you are saying here in general, but question this last part. If he did not consent, then they searched anyway, let's say because they deemed him "jumpy and nervous" so they suspected cocaine or something which gave them probable cause for a search, are you saying that the lawyer could get the evidence tossed (gun), and he would get it back with no charges? I would find this very hard to believe if it went down like I described since they would have met the requirement of probable cause for a legal search.
First, the lawyer has a chance if you don't consent. How good of a chance? I'm not a lawyer, I don't know. I have a hard time believing that someone being nervous is probable cause for a search. Everyone is nervous when they get stopped by a cop, but that doesn't mean that every cop has probable cause to search.
I don't have the cites at hand, but I believe that federal case law (different cases) holds that 20 minutes is reasonable to make someone wait, and 90 minutes is excessive. For a warrant, for a dog, whatever. Other than that, they can only hold a driver for the length of time it reasonably takes to deal with the reason for the stop, or any new issues that develop as a result of the stop.
I have never had a cop ask me about drugs. Do you happen to look like someone who may use them?
Everything you could've done wrong, you did wrong.
Can't they order you to exit in order to perform a field sobriety test?
S/he must have reason to believe you're impaired. S/he usually makes that determination while you're fumbling for your license and registration. Also, you do not have to perform field sobriety tests. Again, this is Massachusetts law. I don't know about other states. I understand in California, they'll strap you down and take your blood if you refuse. In Mass, they can't force you to take a breathalyzer, and they cannot mention in court that you refused. They WILL yank your license for refusing, but you may skate on the DUI.