The complication with this situation is the man is letting me live at his house for free while i save up for a place. he asks me to take him shooting so he can try some cool guns. I'm 19 and i think i know 5 year olds with better gun handling skills than this 57 year old. so far every time we have gone shooting he has swept me with his muzzle(fully loaded, one in the chamber) and has had his finger on the trigger whilst doing so. I've finally had it after this incident. he swept me with the muzzle. said "i don't think its loaded" then proceeded to pull the trigger and put a 115gr 9mm round into the dirt 2.5ft to the left of me. he then goes "I'm sorry i thought it wasn't loaded" My statement went something along this line "are you fu***** kidding me paul. sorry doesn't explain why you just almost shot me" i don't want to lose my place to live because he got offended that i won't shoot with him anymore. but this man has no firearm safety and I'm worried its going to get me or my girlfriend hurt one of these days. any ideas on how to tactfully handle this situation
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my shooting partner has a blatant disregard for firearm safety.
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OfficerObie59
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Either lay down the ****ing law or don't go shooting with him.
Who the **** cares if you live there for free. Doesn't do shit for you if you're dead.
Who the **** cares if you live there for free. Doesn't do shit for you if you're dead.
Everytime he muzzle sweeps me I say something but he just kinda shrugs it off.
Keeper
NES Member
IMO, you don't tactfully handle it. You make it abundantly clear the level of stupidity presented not only endangered your life but anything short of a full acknowledgement of the importance of firearms safety rules suggests he doesn't really comprehend the gravity of what happened. Personally, I don't think a place to live is worth losing your life over and would rather sleep in my car (been there) than subject myself to that level of lunacy.
Also IMO, your former shooting partner either has brain damage or some level of intellectual deficiency and should never touch a firearm again.
I was recently invited on a hunting trip that a friend coordinates ever year. I enjoy it immensely. I told him about his friend who swept me with a loaded shotgun and acted rather indifferent when I pointed it out on the last trip. I plainly stated if that guy was present, I wouldn't be. It's your life. Don't let idiots endanger it.
Also IMO, your former shooting partner either has brain damage or some level of intellectual deficiency and should never touch a firearm again.
I was recently invited on a hunting trip that a friend coordinates ever year. I enjoy it immensely. I told him about his friend who swept me with a loaded shotgun and acted rather indifferent when I pointed it out on the last trip. I plainly stated if that guy was present, I wouldn't be. It's your life. Don't let idiots endanger it.
OfficerObie59
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Then don't go shooting with him anymore.
I'm not sure what is dumber, muzzle sweeping people or allowing the same person to muzzle sweep you repeatedly. If after the first time he didn't get the picture, and does it it a second time, that is a pretty good indicator of things. If after that second time you still go shooting with him, maybe you didn't get the picture. Smarten up.
Well said.
AF83
NES Member
This.
jeffC
NES Member
I used to deal with shit like this from my father-in-law. The guy had the worst firearm safety Ive ever seen. Handing me pistols in soft cases saying "theyre unloaded", only for me to check and sure enough, LOADED. Muzzle sweeping me, walking down range during live fire at the range (him almost getting into a fight with other members who flipped out on him because of it), unsafe handling, illegal/unsafe transportation (all loaded and tossed into one big duffle bag, no holsters or cases).
the worst was when I used to hunt with the guy. he'd shoot at everything that moved, and would insist on setting us up FACING EACH OTHER when finding spots to put blinds. His defense was "As long as its over 100 yards w a shotgun we are safe". GRADE A ****ING MORON. For a short time I trusted him, because he was a "Navy Seal" (or whatever the equilivent is) in Greece. The way he ranted about the training, I figured it was similar to what the U.S. does. WRONG. Apparently they dont teach safety or common sense over there. Needless to say I dont do anything firearms related with him anymore, besides talk. Can't trust him.
the worst was when I used to hunt with the guy. he'd shoot at everything that moved, and would insist on setting us up FACING EACH OTHER when finding spots to put blinds. His defense was "As long as its over 100 yards w a shotgun we are safe". GRADE A ****ING MORON. For a short time I trusted him, because he was a "Navy Seal" (or whatever the equilivent is) in Greece. The way he ranted about the training, I figured it was similar to what the U.S. does. WRONG. Apparently they dont teach safety or common sense over there. Needless to say I dont do anything firearms related with him anymore, besides talk. Can't trust him.
I tend to be Mr Firearms Safety Nazi. I would rather have you think I am a Fudd or hate me than for you shoot someone or me be shot. It would really suck to have my last thoughts, as I bled out on the range, be, 'well, I didn't want to be a dick about it. I love you,(wife's name)'.
Firearms safety is non-negotiable, and people like your 'friend' are what makes it easy for the public to think we are all careless jackasses.
After the incident you describe, I would 1) never let him handle another one of my guns, and b) tell him exactly why(firearms safety is serious, and he doesn't take it seriously).
Watch the scene in Heartbreak Ridge where the guy fires down the line. That is a fairly accurate representation of what the military does when you sweep your DI, even without pulling the trigger. I've never seen a guy ND in boot camp, but I have seen guys put in a world of hurt for sweeping the line. They do not make that mistake again.
Firearms safety is non-negotiable, and people like your 'friend' are what makes it easy for the public to think we are all careless jackasses.
After the incident you describe, I would 1) never let him handle another one of my guns, and b) tell him exactly why(firearms safety is serious, and he doesn't take it seriously).
Watch the scene in Heartbreak Ridge where the guy fires down the line. That is a fairly accurate representation of what the military does when you sweep your DI, even without pulling the trigger. I've never seen a guy ND in boot camp, but I have seen guys put in a world of hurt for sweeping the line. They do not make that mistake again.
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EJFudd
NES Member
... [/thread]
The only tactful thing I can do would be to convince him to take a safety or training course. It sounds like he won't do that anyways. So just don't go shooting with him, and sure as hell you're guns should be off limits to him. It sounds like he thinks its all a game, and no one can get hurt. Sure it can be fun, but its not a game. I'm new to firearms myself, and even then if I'm not actively shooting the mag is out, the slide is locked back, and the safety is on. It's just common sense, or gtfo.
Edit* You hear about that woman at AFS who shot herself? I'm not up to date, but last I heard she wasn't following basic safety rules and shot herself. Could have just as easily been someone else like you or me. I was there only a couple days before so that kinda hits home.
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Being nice doesn't cut it. Tell him to "Put the gun down now!!!"
If he sweeps you or anyone else he might as well be putting the gun to your head. Don't give him a loaded weapon until he demonstrates that he can handle it safely. Then start him out on round at a time. Drill drill drill.
And make plans to move.
When I take people sitting that are not familiar with firearms I do not let them handle guns off the firing line. I load them, set them down pointing down range, and have them pick them up and shoot...I drive it into their heads to keep their finger off the trigger until ready to shoot and if there are any issues set the gun down.
Helps to stand directly behind people like that and watch them closely until they learn. The range is no place to be shy about speaking up or taking action.
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Helps to stand directly behind people like that and watch them closely until they learn. The range is no place to be shy about speaking up or taking action.
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Please don't take this the wrong way but this reminds me of a woman who doesn't want to leave her abusive husband except the potential outcome is far worse. If you want to continue shooting with him, you have to lay down the law. Review safe gun handling rules thoroughly before you go shooting again. Tell him that there are no second chances (zero tolerance). If he breaks a rule, immediately point it out and end the shooting session. Going shooting again after that is probably not a good idea. This isn't a game. If this gets you kicked out of the house, oh well... you will be better off in the long run.
White Feather
Losing a place to live is way down the list compared to the life altering event you're headed towards... the woods are littered with folks I "used to" go hunting with for the very same reasons.
It's obvious you know this is a serious issue. At 19 you probably only have another 60 years or so left. Your call.
Go.
It's obvious you know this is a serious issue. At 19 you probably only have another 60 years or so left. Your call.
Go.
That turned out to be a suicide, but safety came up in that thread too.
The reason we have multi-layered safety rules is so that if you make one mistake, nobody dies. If you make two mistakes, nobody dies. If you make three mistakes, you could kill someone, but you have to be willfully negligent to get there, which is the crux of this issue.
When you don't know if your gun is loaded, are pointing it at another person, and then pull the trigger, you have violated all three (individual) rules. Three strikes and you're out. Hopefully the other guy isn't dead.
Christ! I cringe just reading about this.
Good luck with your living arrangements, but NEVER take this guy to the range again.
He might shoot someone else and you will feel (almost) as bad as if he had shot you.
Good luck with your living arrangements, but NEVER take this guy to the range again.
He might shoot someone else and you will feel (almost) as bad as if he had shot you.
MAGG
NES Member
sums it up...seems like you have a casual attitude towards this. it would happen once to me and I would be done bringing anyone
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Wait, are you saying that you've had several friendly fire incidents in the woods because of poor muzzle control?
![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
All kidding aside, the safety implications have been beat to death so I won't repeat the obvious, but the main issue you are going to face trying to "teach" a 60 something year old man safety techniques as a 19 year old will probably go over like a lead balloon, so if he is stubborn about it, the only recourse you may have is to stop going shooting with him at all, and/or find a new place to live. Chances are really good that ANY changes you try to make in his habits are going to be met with resistance, or maybe even anger depending on his personality just for the simple reason of you being "just a kid" to him. Does he own guns himself, and have any kind of license? If he only has an FID for example, you may be able to talk him into getting more training through taking a required class for LTC under the ruse of it making him able to purchase even cooler guns. Short of that, I would discontinue going to the range with him at all even if it means you either have to sneak there yourself, or just don't go at all for awhile. You'll have plenty of time to sharpen your skills later when you have your own place.
As everyone has already said......DO NOT TAKE THIS GUY SHOOTING AGAIN!!!!!!!!
Tell him you have no ammo or that your guns are screwed up.......if he gets mad then you need to get the heck out of there........next time he might put one in your leg and you will be handicapped forever which might be worse than one in the head since death has no complications afterwards.
If you have any friends nereby then let them store all of your guns and do it today. If you have no friends locally then tell us where you are located and someone here will store your stuff for you. I live in Raynham and would gladly store your guns to keep you from getting killed or maimed and you can get them back anytime you wish.
Tell him you have no ammo or that your guns are screwed up.......if he gets mad then you need to get the heck out of there........next time he might put one in your leg and you will be handicapped forever which might be worse than one in the head since death has no complications afterwards.
If you have any friends nereby then let them store all of your guns and do it today. If you have no friends locally then tell us where you are located and someone here will store your stuff for you. I live in Raynham and would gladly store your guns to keep you from getting killed or maimed and you can get them back anytime you wish.
![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
falcon123
NES Member
