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my shooting partner has a blatant disregard for firearm safety.
- Thread starter skeetshooter
- Start date
Don't go shooting with him anymore. A PO'ed person is better than removing a bullet on an ER table. If you can, offer a range safety day. Bring no ammo, expect for what you have in your possession. Do not tell him you have the ammo on you. If he takes to the lesson and can demonstrate safe handling, surprise him with the rounds. No more sweeping with one in the chamber, and someone who sounds very unsafe will become a more proper user. Continue the lessons until they stick.
Wait, are you saying that you've had several friendly fire incidents in the woods because of poor muzzle control?![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
In my tenure I've been sprayed with birdshot (thankfully from a distance), been muzzle swept, asked some NOT to walk around with their finger inside the trigger guard, had peeps try and case loaded guns, or put loaded guns in my truck... they get one warning I take that stuff seriously, I really don't care if they're insulted... then if they want to go again I'm busy... most were decent aquaintences, some were good friends
![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
there's no room for that kinda foolishness.
(and it really doesnt matter if this whole thread is BS or a troll, or what their living arrangements, ages or relationship is... the point stands on it's own)
.02
I prefer my body not be perforated, and generally enjoy my own existence. If I take someone to the range for the first time, I scare the shit out of them. I tell them don't cross this line, keep your finger off the trigger, only point the gun down range, etc. etc. etc. and I make a HUGE GODAMMED DEAL ABOUT IT. I don't care if it turns someone off to shooting or not, I'd rather they not shoot than blow my balls off at the range.
Anyone that doesn't treat every gun like it's loaded, all the time, is a range buddy I can do with out... Btw I rather be homeless & alive then the alternative...
Good luck
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Good luck
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
@je5ff
Just another reason everyone should go through boot camp. You get a nice, impersonal Drill Instructor to light you up when you do stupid things. Granted, some people come out of boot still stupid, but most at least learn that stupid hurts.
Just another reason everyone should go through boot camp. You get a nice, impersonal Drill Instructor to light you up when you do stupid things. Granted, some people come out of boot still stupid, but most at least learn that stupid hurts.
OfficerObie59
NES Member
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There's a difference between freaking out, and expressing your discontent with the rude act of being lasered as a result of inattentive gun handling.
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"Rifles pointed down range at all times!!!"
DitchDigger
NES Member
You really just like to shoot by ur self.
Better focus.
Nuff said
Better focus.
Nuff said
dcmdon
NES Member
Lets look at that statement for a moment.
Skeetshooter - do you see the pure lunacy of that statement. I'm not trying to insult you. You sound like a smart guy. But you are making excuses for someone else. Its normal human nature. But don't put yourself at risk.
Lets do a little exercise Lets replace the words "muzzle sweep" with the term "a55 rape".
Everytime he a55 rapes me, I say something but he kinda just shrugs it off.
Ridiculous huh. But there is no difference between these statements. In both cases he does something that is wrong, inconsiderate and has the potential to kill you.
Don't take him shooting any more. Period. Its not worth it.
dcmdon
NES Member
On another note, its often the old codgers who are dangerous or inconsiderate.
Sweeping me with a bolt ction rifle with the bolt removed is not dangerous, but it is VERY VERY inconsiderate. I may not see the missing bolt and react accordingly.
I was at a 200 yard .22 match this summer. (a big success for me, i hit the paper) and some old dude who shot very well lasered EVERYONE there when he took his rifle off the line.
It started to come for me and I grabbed his barrel and said something like "whoa, what are you doing" he got all pissy and said "its not loaded". I stepped behind him and let go of the barrel. A few minutes later someone said that he was like that and asked me to not harrass him about his unsafe practices. I told him that he may have been a member of this club for 30 years to my 1 year, but that didn't matter one ibt. I will do the same thing if it happens again.
Don
Sweeping me with a bolt ction rifle with the bolt removed is not dangerous, but it is VERY VERY inconsiderate. I may not see the missing bolt and react accordingly.
I was at a 200 yard .22 match this summer. (a big success for me, i hit the paper) and some old dude who shot very well lasered EVERYONE there when he took his rifle off the line.
It started to come for me and I grabbed his barrel and said something like "whoa, what are you doing" he got all pissy and said "its not loaded". I stepped behind him and let go of the barrel. A few minutes later someone said that he was like that and asked me to not harrass him about his unsafe practices. I told him that he may have been a member of this club for 30 years to my 1 year, but that didn't matter one ibt. I will do the same thing if it happens again.
Don
Boghog1, you are just as bad as those douchebags who use the "but it's not loaded" defense. There is no such thing as an obviously empty gun. You sweep me with a gun, I don't give a f*ck if the cylinder is open or the rifle has a flag in it, I will climb up your ass faster than a fat kid eats a chocolate donuts.
dcmdon
NES Member
Like I said, there is a difference between unsafe and inconsiderate.
I've also had people get a little excessive. As in warning me about my muzzle when my double gun was broken open and I slid it under a barb wire fence while hunting. The gun was on the ground and I possibly swept the soles of his shoes with the open gun. The guy saw me open the gun. He knew it was open. In case its not obvious what I mean, here's a pic. I actually thought it looked pretty cool on the snow, so I took a pic within a minute of the guy warning me about my muzzle. I do believe that was excessive. But for the most part, I'm with you.
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Living there for free won't matter much if you get shot dead by accident. Grow a pair man this is your life! Just teach him gun safety and tell him it sf for you, him and any other people at the range. Make it seem like you are doing him a favor and saving him the embarasment of someone else cursing him out. Because someone will if you don't have the brass to do it first.
hy2rogen
NES Member
Every time I am muzzle swept by an idiot I don't handle it lightly. It is a big issue and needs to be handled as such. If he has no common sense then he should not be shooting.
Quiet
Banned
I wonder how many of the people in here so upset that they've been flagged at a range are the people who say that drunk driving is a no harm, no foul thing.
Hey, you got flagged. No biggie. Why the upset? Why would you put your hands on someone else or someone else's gun?
LOL I guess it's all in what you see as a threat to your own life.
Personally I think they're both biggies.
Hey, you got flagged. No biggie. Why the upset? Why would you put your hands on someone else or someone else's gun?
LOL I guess it's all in what you see as a threat to your own life.
Personally I think they're both biggies.
falcon123
NES Member
dcmdon
NES Member
I'll put my hands on someone else's gun if its pointing at me or a third party.
Lets call it my right to self defense.
I did a quick search of this thread and don't see anyone saying drunk driving was no harm. So I don't get your comparison. Both are dangerous.
Lets call it my right to self defense.
I did a quick search of this thread and don't see anyone saying drunk driving was no harm. So I don't get your comparison. Both are dangerous.
falcon123
NES Member
Quiet
Banned
Hey, I agree. I had a thread here a few weeks ago about a tough experience at a range.
The reference was really from other threads where lots of NESers argue that OUI is a victimless "crime" unless they actually hurt someone or someone's property, so it shouldn't be a crime. Or an argument similar to that.
Muzzle sweeping is more akin to driving in in the wrong lane (the lane of oncoming traffic). Sure you've put yourself into a position to kill someone, but most will swerve out once they see headlights. But its dangerous as hell. It is the hallmark of a reckless and awful driver. Trust me, my college roomates girlfriend drove us into a rotary in the wrong direction. It was scary and dangerous as hell. Muzzle sweeping is scary and dangerous as hell too.
On the other hand I drove home from a bar the other day after 2 beers. I might have been .05 or .10 idk (who has their own personal breathalyzer???) But I drove the same way anyone else on the road does. So the comparison is stupid, unless you mean some who had 12 shots of whiskey then drove. You ever text and drive? I bet yes, and if so the you're worse than drunk drivers. If not I apologize for mentioning it.
Regardless, and as I posted way earlier in this thread, don't shoot with this guy. If you posted this thread then it means you know something is seriously wrong.
Boghog1
NES Member
Try reading what I said again, ever been to a gun shop to a gun show did you freak the **** out at all the people that sweep or did you jump? Neg me all you want but there are way too many nervous nellies that are way millitant about safety, I have yet to shot anyone or even have an ND. yes there are safety rules for all sorts of things in life but do you insist on people leaving a car length for every 10mph you travel or use directionals at least 100 feet before a turn, you being from MA may not even know what a directional is.
Rick1987
NES Member
[video=youtube_share;yUe_Pi8NfT4]http://youtu.be/yUe_Pi8NfT4[/video]http://youtu.be/yUe_Pi8NfT4
I was fuddin it up a few months ago shooting trap and left my 870 with the action open on the rifle rack. This little shit kid shouts in front of the 12 of us, "WHO'S GUN IS THIS?!" to which I respond "mine", and he says "you left the safety off" then proceeded to put the safety on.
So I walked over to him and said, "there's no safety on the gun on my hip and there's a round in the chamber. What are you going to do about that one?"
Turns out he went to the club president and said the people I was with were threatening him. Well let's see, I was with one of the board of directors and he had watched that same kid put the muzzle of his 870 to the back of his friends head while walking up the stairs every single time...
So I walked over to him and said, "there's no safety on the gun on my hip and there's a round in the chamber. What are you going to do about that one?"
Turns out he went to the club president and said the people I was with were threatening him. Well let's see, I was with one of the board of directors and he had watched that same kid put the muzzle of his 870 to the back of his friends head while walking up the stairs every single time...
Sometimes, in a crowded gun shop it is almost impossible not to muzzle sweep someone as you are showing the gun, however people should use due diligence. Even under those circumstances, if I don't find a safe spot, I point the gun down (hoping there is nobody in the basement
![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
)However the biggest difference is that in a gun store as opposed to a range is that there is no open ammo in the close proximity and the gun has not been recently shot. Not that it makes a difference, but there is an added level of safety by ensuring that.
Quiet
Banned
Texting and driving is not as nearly as bad as drunk driving. Without any data to back me up, I'd guess that more people are texting than driving while drunk, wouldn't you agree?
There are millions of people doing it and the last statistics say that all cell use accounted for about 3% of accidents, about 1,000 deaths. Nothing to sneeze at. Nothing is risk free, but the actual data for the risk for texting for an experienced driver is fairly low compared to DUI.
It is hype just like the Anti's hype about guns by frightened phonotextophobes (new word?) . the tests/simulations that they run to prove that texting is worse than drunk driving are as ridiculous as the test they set up to prove that CCWs would do nothing in a mass shooting: They put the CCW front and center and told the perp who to shoot first.
In the texting simulation, the examiner WATCHES THE TEST TAKER and waits until they glance down to start the obstacle. In real life, most experienced people don't text when they are in a dangerous position. Teenagers are (of course) still inexperienced teenagers, unaware of the dangers of anything when they are behind the wheel.
As far as your blood alcohol content goes (not that it really matters as to whether you're drunk or not, it's just a legal definition that bears little relation to your personal skills) if you're over 160 pounds I doubt that your BAC would be more than .05 after 2 beers, even if you chugged them both down together and waiting the perfect amount of time for them to peak. If you weight more than that and spread them out over any amount of time or had them with food you're probably well under .04.
As far as the difference between being in the wrong lane vs being drunk vs flagging people... I don't really know how to make quantitative distinctions between them. They're all dangerous, which was my point. Flagging people probably doesn't kill many people, drunk driving kills 10,000.
Drunk driving is not an absolute thing. If I drive home after 2 drinks, I'm not impaired and it's perfectly legal. If I drive home after 6 drinks, I may be over the legal limit, but I'm not impaired enough to affect my driving or to endanger anyone. If I drive home after 12 drinks, I'm drunk and it's probably dangerous. But those lines between legal, illegal and dangerous are difficult to judge and different for everyone.
Sweeping someone at the range, on the other hand, is an absolute. Either you were pointing the gun in a safe direction, or you were not. Either you're okay destroying everything that muzzle is pointed at, or you're not.
Every gun is always loaded. Every person is not.
Quiet
Banned
You realize that "every gun is always loaded" is just a saying meant to emphasize a point, not the truth, right?
