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My M1 Garand has arrived! Range Report Update
- Thread starter DW357
- Start date
I don't have a say on that particlualr one. Web sling is more than good enough. if you find yourself getting deeper into the shoots and matches you can try a learher sling.
only advantage I personally like is that the leather sling is easier to "set" for positions. I have my sling hook positions noted for each rifle m1, 1903a3,AR and each position. there's no fiddling with it. m1 prone is hole # X for prone and hole X for sitting....I either have it on my rifle tag or written down somewhere.... on rainy days or daysxi just don't fell like messing with the leather I grab the web...
either one is good. you will know in short time if the reproduction web sling you bought is any good.....the first thing to happen is the metal end on the tip of the sling will fall off with in a few range trips. 2 nd the clip latch will pop open.
If you take the time to learn to shoot prone with a sling you will find it to be a. wry solid position as so with sitting... It will also help you develop a better hold when you don't have a sling....
there's just no place for a reproduction m1907 sling that's not built to shoot in matches.... many of them are not long enough. they are for looks and carrying only...the 75$ for a Turner or a brown are well worth it.
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Whipped up 24 rounds with 44.5 gr of H4895 and 24 rounds with 44.5 gr of Varget. Both Hornady 168 BTHP 3.30" COL.
H4895:
View attachment 117180
Varget:
View attachment 117181
I didn't shoot well like those 4064 rounds I made last week. My excuse was the poor lighting as I went shooting just before dark (545-6![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
. Definitely not as hot as hxp but still had some kick. I might try lowering the charge a bit, maybe 42.5 gr?
What charge and OAL are you using with Varget mac?
Also this is where a lead sled would be key like you said mac. I'll have to find someone at my local club with one I can borrow. My goal tomorrow morning is to make my first 30 carbine loads with the H110 I got yesterday.
H4895:
View attachment 117180
Varget:
View attachment 117181
I didn't shoot well like those 4064 rounds I made last week. My excuse was the poor lighting as I went shooting just before dark (545-6
. Definitely not as hot as hxp but still had some kick. I might try lowering the charge a bit, maybe 42.5 gr?What charge and OAL are you using with Varget mac?
Also this is where a lead sled would be key like you said mac. I'll have to find someone at my local club with one I can borrow. My goal tomorrow morning is to make my first 30 carbine loads with the H110 I got yesterday.
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Nevermind found your loads with varget in an older thread from earlier this year. You say 46 gr works well I read.
I mean some of my shots were touching each other so it wasn't all that bad. The problem I need to work on is keeping my sight alignment/picture consistent after each shot. Sometimes the recoil throws it off and I'm not aiming in the same spot. Just got to keep practicing and attend a cmp clinic and try using a sling.
I mean some of my shots were touching each other so it wasn't all that bad. The problem I need to work on is keeping my sight alignment/picture consistent after each shot. Sometimes the recoil throws it off and I'm not aiming in the same spot. Just got to keep practicing and attend a cmp clinic and try using a sling.
I dont go below the min load in any published data for M1 Garands except for H4895 Hodgdon has specific directions for H4895 and reducing loads.
Over all though my M1s like that 44 to 46 grain area for 168s. marginal difference really doesnt matter what power Varget or H4895
Shooting in low light is not helpful. As for a rest you should at least have a few sand bags front and rear trying to test reloads elbows on the bench doesnt do well generally..... my 1952 HRA serice grade will function on H4895 down to 38 grains groups opened up pretty quickly at the low charge.
For my rifles that I tested anything under 44g with H4895 or Varget anf 168 FMJBT was not consistent and seldom gave good groups.
I have basically settled on 45 grains of varget or H4895 across the board from 150s - 178s the 178 A MAX did very well in my HRA and 1903a3 The price doesnt warrant the gain though
I dont get to hung up on the reloads. Almost any match bullet with the top 10 known powders safe for M1 should shoot better than most shooter and rifles can. I wouldnt Test any more ammo with out a decent rest. @ minimum shooting prone with a sling with your support arm on a large sandbag like in the videos I sent you?
Getting your rifle to shoot consistently is far more important. You could test your M1 for After over haul accuracy
http://www.nicolausassociates.com/PDF/M1Target.pdf
I use the 1000 inch target its easier to see
Is your gas cyl. tight on the splines
Does your rifle pass the tilt test
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Yeah I figured the low light couldn't be helping me much. I was dying to try out the reloads today rather than wait until tomorrow when the range will be crowded.
Good call on the sandbags, forgot about those. We have a few laying around at my club I could use.
Yeah I'd agree that the bullets and powders are going to shoot better than I can. It's fun trying different loads but at the same time, I need to make sure in having fun and not getting hung up on the loads/accuracy like you said.
I'll have to get a better rest to use with testing these loads. Also I'll have to look through my messages for those videos, I'm pretty sure you PMed those not email. Thanks for the advice.
They are all over you tube also. M1 garand marksmenship training film
Getting your rifle to shoot consistently is far more important. You could test your M1 for After over haul accuracy
http://www.nicolausassociates.com/PDF/M1Target.pdf
I use the 1000 inch target its easier to see
Is your gas cyl. tight on the splines
Does your rifle pass the tilt test
does the rear hand guard have space between it and the receiver
Finally had some time on my lunch break for a quick update from this past Monday's quick range trip. I made up some loads using the newly acquired Nosler 168 BTHP CCs w/ 46 gr of IMR-4064 @ 3.30" and some Nosler 168s using 46 of Varget. This was using a mixture of HXP and PPU cases.
This was the 4064 loads at 100 yards just resting the gun on my shooting bag, NOT using a sling:
View attachment 126069
These were the Varget loads:
View attachment 126072
These are 50 ft NRA pistol targets and the black circel is 3" in diameter for a reference. The 4064 loads seem to have shot good except for a few flyers. That 5 shot group is 2-2.5" which I didn't think was bad but looking at my previous test loads (post #93) those Hornady's shot a little tighter which could have been me, the weather etc. It was pretty windy and about 38 degrees on Monday (not sure how much impact that would have at 100 yards) while in October from my last test loads, it was much warmer and not as windy.
I really need to attach the damn sling I bought as that should help me control the rifle better. After each shot, the rifle would obviously recoil and move which I then had to realign the sights. And as you said mac, a lead sled would really be the best way to test these loads. Would using different brass manufacturers change much in accuracy? I have small amounts of Winchester and Remington in addition to the tons of HXP and PPU headstamps. I did notice that the Remington cases weighed 200 grains compared to the HXP brass which was around 190ish grains.
Is the 2"-2.5" 5 shot group be what I should expect from reloads in terms of accuracy at 100 yards? I would imagine it isn't possible with these rifles to shoot 0.5" groups at 100 yards lol.
I also made up some loads with 45.3 gr of H4895 that I didn't have time to shoot that day.
This was the 4064 loads at 100 yards just resting the gun on my shooting bag, NOT using a sling:
View attachment 126069
These were the Varget loads:
View attachment 126072
These are 50 ft NRA pistol targets and the black circel is 3" in diameter for a reference. The 4064 loads seem to have shot good except for a few flyers. That 5 shot group is 2-2.5" which I didn't think was bad but looking at my previous test loads (post #93) those Hornady's shot a little tighter which could have been me, the weather etc. It was pretty windy and about 38 degrees on Monday (not sure how much impact that would have at 100 yards) while in October from my last test loads, it was much warmer and not as windy.
I really need to attach the damn sling I bought as that should help me control the rifle better. After each shot, the rifle would obviously recoil and move which I then had to realign the sights. And as you said mac, a lead sled would really be the best way to test these loads. Would using different brass manufacturers change much in accuracy? I have small amounts of Winchester and Remington in addition to the tons of HXP and PPU headstamps. I did notice that the Remington cases weighed 200 grains compared to the HXP brass which was around 190ish grains.
Is the 2"-2.5" 5 shot group be what I should expect from reloads in terms of accuracy at 100 yards? I would imagine it isn't possible with these rifles to shoot 0.5" groups at 100 yards lol.
I also made up some loads with 45.3 gr of H4895 that I didn't have time to shoot that day.
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I will only say that most gains in accuracy reloading certain brass or sorting by weigh,head stamp or what have you won't show with a M1 garand.
As I mentioned before a new M1 did not have a "accuracy standard" set. I have yet to find any military standard set for new M1s. Re arsenal M1s are good enough for GI if it shoots 5 consecutive shots at 1000 INCHES and holds a 1.77" group.
M2 ball ammo spec was 4moa.
If you read the testing standards you will see that there is a margin of error, median, average
And percentage that seems to allow for some failure groups to pass.
Any how.... I go by minute of black of a SR1 or 6.35" if you can put 20 rounds prone into the Black of a SR 1 @100 yards you your rifle and ammo are doing well.
As for my personal accuracy with my reloads. I have found my sweet spot for my M1 comes on the lower side of powder charges....
Honestly once I remove the rifle from the rest I'm a sub 5 moa shooter with the M1 on a good day. The 1955 HRA I shoot in the as issued matches when I have a good day I'm shooting high 440s to low 460s.
Maybe this will help with M1 accuracy
The as issued M1 garand national match @ camp perry is a 30 shot , 200 yard match. 10 slow fire prone,10 prone rapid and 10 slow standing. 2014 there where 1076 shooters. 243 of them shot 270 or better or 90%. The winner shot a 293/300 with 9-X
Or prone slow fire 100/100 5X, rapids 99/100 3X, standing 94/100 1X
SR target dimensions black bull is X ring 3" , 10 ring 7" and 9 ring 13"
So just to be in the top 20% or so you need to put all shots,in the Black. I'm sure the top 10% have every legal mod done to their guns but are more than likely very good shooters. I just broke into the 90% score average this year... more work with proper focus and position has,gained me the most improvement.... good luck and shoot often
As I mentioned before a new M1 did not have a "accuracy standard" set. I have yet to find any military standard set for new M1s. Re arsenal M1s are good enough for GI if it shoots 5 consecutive shots at 1000 INCHES and holds a 1.77" group.
M2 ball ammo spec was 4moa.
If you read the testing standards you will see that there is a margin of error, median, average
And percentage that seems to allow for some failure groups to pass.
Any how.... I go by minute of black of a SR1 or 6.35" if you can put 20 rounds prone into the Black of a SR 1 @100 yards you your rifle and ammo are doing well.
As for my personal accuracy with my reloads. I have found my sweet spot for my M1 comes on the lower side of powder charges....
Honestly once I remove the rifle from the rest I'm a sub 5 moa shooter with the M1 on a good day. The 1955 HRA I shoot in the as issued matches when I have a good day I'm shooting high 440s to low 460s.
Maybe this will help with M1 accuracy
The as issued M1 garand national match @ camp perry is a 30 shot , 200 yard match. 10 slow fire prone,10 prone rapid and 10 slow standing. 2014 there where 1076 shooters. 243 of them shot 270 or better or 90%. The winner shot a 293/300 with 9-X
Or prone slow fire 100/100 5X, rapids 99/100 3X, standing 94/100 1X
SR target dimensions black bull is X ring 3" , 10 ring 7" and 9 ring 13"
So just to be in the top 20% or so you need to put all shots,in the Black. I'm sure the top 10% have every legal mod done to their guns but are more than likely very good shooters. I just broke into the 90% score average this year... more work with proper focus and position has,gained me the most improvement.... good luck and shoot often
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I have an original PKW44 web sling my M1 and M03A3; both from LTC when they were available for a reasonable $$. I put a Sharpie dot on the inside to mark the tab for my hasty sling position. Works just fine for me.
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I was a hasty sling shooter myself. Then one of the old marines at the club cornered me and said, son im going to show you how to use that sling... USGI web sling korean war era.... I have not looked back. I find a way to get a usgi sling on any rifle Im trying to shoot the best possible groups with. I bought a leather match sling a few years ago and once I got used to using it. Its not much harder. I love the leather sling now.
When I did Appleseed, they showed us both methods. For simplicity I have stayed with the hasty sling. My two M07 leather repros on my M17 and M03 also have marks for the loop style.
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40 caliber
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Awesome! now place your order for the next one before your girlfriend finds out!
