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My M1 Garand has arrived! Range Report Update
- Thread starter DW357
- Start date
COME ON ITS A F'N GARAND!!! They took more of a beating just getting shipped back from Greece and turkey .......... if you have not seen how they are jamed loosely packed into crates you might not want to.......mosins get white glove treatment vs the returns cmp gets.
![[shocked]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/007.gif "Shocked [shocked]")
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Finally tried my 30-06 reloads for the first time this afternoon.
Made some using Hornady 150 gr FMJs under 48.5 gr of IMR 4064 ~3.30" COL. Light crimp (ya I know no need to).
And Hornady 168 gr match BTHPs under 45 gr of IMR 4064 ~3.30" COL no crimp.
150s @100 yards:
View attachment 116660
View attachment 116661
168s @100 yards:
View attachment 116662
Wow what a difference in accuracy between these bullets. Granted the loads are starting charges and I had a failure to eject with one of the 150 loads and the clip didn't eject one time too. So I think I need to up the charge a bit as that's never happened with the ~120 hxp rounds I've fired. The 150s were lightly crimped which isn't necessary. Also I went with a longer COL than the manual suggested (went with the COL of the hxp rounds as they work fine).
They definitely were softer shooting than the hxp rounds. But I don't think I need to change much with the 168 loads since I'm keeping them all in a 3" circle at 100 yards. More experimenting with the 150 gr loads though.
Made some using Hornady 150 gr FMJs under 48.5 gr of IMR 4064 ~3.30" COL. Light crimp (ya I know no need to).
And Hornady 168 gr match BTHPs under 45 gr of IMR 4064 ~3.30" COL no crimp.
150s @100 yards:
View attachment 116660
View attachment 116661
168s @100 yards:
View attachment 116662
Wow what a difference in accuracy between these bullets. Granted the loads are starting charges and I had a failure to eject with one of the 150 loads and the clip didn't eject one time too. So I think I need to up the charge a bit as that's never happened with the ~120 hxp rounds I've fired. The 150s were lightly crimped which isn't necessary. Also I went with a longer COL than the manual suggested (went with the COL of the hxp rounds as they work fine).
They definitely were softer shooting than the hxp rounds. But I don't think I need to change much with the 168 loads since I'm keeping them all in a 3" circle at 100 yards. More experimenting with the 150 gr loads though.
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And look what the 168 BTHPs do to a small pumpkin lol. View attachment 116667View attachment 116668
And just need to practice more. Especially with keeping the rifle steady and keeping my sight alignment/picture consistent after each shot.
I might try seating the 150s to the cannelure before bumping up the charge?
I might try seating the 150s to the cannelure before bumping up the charge?
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headednorth
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Ever been to an Appleseed? I found it to be helpful, shooting wise, and had a great time. Using a sling makes all the difference in the world.
Appleseed was fun; I brought my '03 Springfield. I was the loudest there in a field of .22s. Too bad I only had Mauser strippers which were too small; I had no chance on getting 40 rounds off at the end.
T
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I find it best when "testing" loads to have a rifle rest that eliminates as much as you as possible. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/726246/caldwell-lead-sled-plus-rifle-shooting-rest this is what I use. It is far better than bags. theres no imput from your shoulder and all you really need to do is line up the sights and squeze off a round.
As for the Hornady FMJ bulk bullets.... they are ok but I wouldnt waste a heck of a lot of time trying different loads. I did how ever find that H4895 or varget gave me the the best groups vs 4046 and H335. The 168 or heck any decent match bullet nosler, Hornady even the PPU "match" bullets will out perform the bulk FMJ and for the price difference of usually 5 cents or less when bought in bulk are well worth it.
Groups will tighten with practice. Start with goals like getting them all in the black. Dry fire at home in position does wonders. A small dot a little smaller than 1/2" 15 to 20 feet away will help with sight picture....all in time. Start going to CMP clinics and shoots also.
The proper Use of the sling does wonders. Very solid when used correctly.
[video]http://www.archive.org/details/Rifle_Marksmanship_with_the_M1_Rifle[/video] a great start. although the sling is not used for standing in cmp shoots
https://www.scribd.com/doc/41096951/SR-Shooting-Guide-AMU-03-12-04 down load this. Everything here can be applied to the M1
web sling or leather match sling They both work very well.
Dont buy a reproduction sling if you go leather buy a turner or brown service rifle sling 50-52" long
only thing I dont like in these videos is he should have the butt end of the stock craddle in nook of his hip and leg bend and his arm wrapped around the gun.
As for the Hornady FMJ bulk bullets.... they are ok but I wouldnt waste a heck of a lot of time trying different loads. I did how ever find that H4895 or varget gave me the the best groups vs 4046 and H335. The 168 or heck any decent match bullet nosler, Hornady even the PPU "match" bullets will out perform the bulk FMJ and for the price difference of usually 5 cents or less when bought in bulk are well worth it.
Groups will tighten with practice. Start with goals like getting them all in the black. Dry fire at home in position does wonders. A small dot a little smaller than 1/2" 15 to 20 feet away will help with sight picture....all in time. Start going to CMP clinics and shoots also.
The proper Use of the sling does wonders. Very solid when used correctly.
[video]http://www.archive.org/details/Rifle_Marksmanship_with_the_M1_Rifle[/video] a great start. although the sling is not used for standing in cmp shoots
https://www.scribd.com/doc/41096951/SR-Shooting-Guide-AMU-03-12-04 down load this. Everything here can be applied to the M1
web sling or leather match sling They both work very well.
Dont buy a reproduction sling if you go leather buy a turner or brown service rifle sling 50-52" long
only thing I dont like in these videos is he should have the butt end of the stock craddle in nook of his hip and leg bend and his arm wrapped around the gun.
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Did you have the rifle apart before you shot these groups ? If you did it will take several shots for the rifle to settle.... My rifles usually take about 15 shots before they settle in. Once your done refinishing your stock and doing what ever else. you will see your rifle will shoot better and more consistent if you do not remove the action or trigger group often.
I'll eventually get one of those lead sleds but I feel like spending $120+ on ammo or components instead lol. But I like the challenge of not using a lead sled for now.
I'll have to find some 4895 and varget to try. Funny because my Lyman manual said the best accuracy was with IMR4064 with 150s and IMR4895 with the 168s. But the 168s shot much better than the 150s. I've got 500 of each so I'd like to find a good accurate load for each bullet. Not to mention I had a FTE with the 150s. After I shoot through these I'm definitely sticking with the 168s unless I can get those 150s to improve. Like you said, they're not much more money AND they use less powder so it's a wash between the 2 bullet types really.
I'm not a match shooter but keeping those 168s in a 3" circle at 100 yards is pretty good right? Some of those shots were less than 1" apart. Good enough for me I'd say. Gotta work on the 150s though.
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I only had it apart the day I got it just to clean and lube. Haven't cleaned or taken it apart since.
I'll have to find some 4895 and varget to try. Funny because my Lyman manual said the best accuracy was with IMR4064 with 150s and IMR4895 with the 168s. But the 168s shot much better than the 150s. I've got 500 of each so I'd like to find a good accurate load for each bullet. Not to mention I had a FTE with the 150s. After I shoot through these I'm definitely sticking with the 168s unless I can get those 150s to improve. Like you said, they're not much more money AND they use less powder so it's a wash between the 2 bullet types really.
I'm not a match shooter but keeping those 168s in a 3" circle at 100 yards is pretty good right? Some of those shots were less than 1" apart. Good enough for me I'd say. Gotta work on the 150s though.
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I only had it apart the day I got it just to clean and lube. Haven't cleaned or taken it apart since.
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I bought the led sled when dicks had it on sale and I had a 20% off coupon. kicked it down to 75$. I understand about putting cash to ammo and bullets. Although you will find a load that shoots better using a rest.......
If you can keep your shots in a 3" group in the center of the targets @ 100 yds
MR31 your lowest score would be a 8 or 20 shots 160/200 prone
SR21 " " 9 or 90/100 10 shots in 70 sec. prone
SR-1 " " 10 or 100/100. 10shots slow standing & 10 shots in 70 sec. sitting for a total of 200 between the 2 stages
so yes that's good if you can hold that 3" group through all 4 stages you will shoot a 460/500
Lyman data is it for garand or some test rifle they have.
some garands like different bullets....
Each load book and manufacture will have their own best also. Ex: Hornady 7th manual does not list 4064 for 150s in the garand section. hornady claims the best combo for them was 168 AMAX with N150, N140 & H4895? Hornady garand data has imr 4064 Max charge listed @ 47.2 grains with 168s.... my rifles seem to like that 45ish area for the powders I have tried.
my winter project is to see just how light I can load and still get reliable function.... I'm shooting 200 yards or less with mine so Max loads I feel are not needed. Eventually I will work on a cast bullet load for M1...if I can get 3" moa cast loads I will use those for 100 yd fun shoots....elcheapo!
Did you read that article "reloading for the m1 garand" look at some of those loads!! Stout!
If you can keep your shots in a 3" group in the center of the targets @ 100 yds
MR31 your lowest score would be a 8 or 20 shots 160/200 prone
SR21 " " 9 or 90/100 10 shots in 70 sec. prone
SR-1 " " 10 or 100/100. 10shots slow standing & 10 shots in 70 sec. sitting for a total of 200 between the 2 stages
so yes that's good if you can hold that 3" group through all 4 stages you will shoot a 460/500
Lyman data is it for garand or some test rifle they have.
some garands like different bullets....
Each load book and manufacture will have their own best also. Ex: Hornady 7th manual does not list 4064 for 150s in the garand section. hornady claims the best combo for them was 168 AMAX with N150, N140 & H4895? Hornady garand data has imr 4064 Max charge listed @ 47.2 grains with 168s.... my rifles seem to like that 45ish area for the powders I have tried.
my winter project is to see just how light I can load and still get reliable function.... I'm shooting 200 yards or less with mine so Max loads I feel are not needed. Eventually I will work on a cast bullet load for M1...if I can get 3" moa cast loads I will use those for 100 yd fun shoots....elcheapo!
Did you read that article "reloading for the m1 garand" look at some of those loads!! Stout!
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Yeah - next time
I'm definitely going to look at the CMP schedule.I honestly didn't think about it - but it is not exactly a delicate flower of a rifle.
COME ON ITS A F'N GARAND!!! They took more of a beating just getting shipped back from Greece and turkey .......... if you have not seen how they are jamed loosely packed into crates you might not want to.......mosins get white glove treatment vs the returns cmp gets.
No doubt it's a tough gun!
I highly doubt I could shoot that well standing. But I should try standing more often and I've never shot shooting prone either.
Ya I'd have to double check but I'm pretty sure the Lyman data wasn't used from a Garand. I was surprised at the loads from that articel you sent me, very hot loads for the Garand. I don't want to load em that hot and do damage.
I'm going to try to find some IMR4895 or H4895 and Varget to try out. Although the 168s shot quite well. I think if I try seating the 150s a little deeper and not crimping maybe it will shoot a little better?
I miswrote when I said I had 1 FTE but it was actually a loaded round that got stuck FTF - sticking halfway out of the chamber which crushed/bent the case. Also one time the clip didn't eject after the last round. These were all with the 150 gr loads but only happened once out of the (24) 150 gr loads I made, the other (24) 168 gr loads didn't have this issue and I've never had this happen with the hxp ammo.
So what would be the most likely cause for the loaded round getting stuck and the clip not ejecting? I first thought it would be that my 48 gr of 4064 wasn't enough to cycle it properly? It was certainly softer shooting than hxp but it only happened once so I'm not sure.
Might just need to be greased more?
So what would be the most likely cause for the loaded round getting stuck and the clip not ejecting? I first thought it would be that my 48 gr of 4064 wasn't enough to cycle it properly? It was certainly softer shooting than hxp but it only happened once so I'm not sure.
Might just need to be greased more?
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With out seeing the jam ? Did you grease the garand per CMP or Garand Gear directions ?
Bad clips can cause problems also. The Op Rod spring can be a cause of many issues to.
loose case cyl lockscrew ? I dont know enough about 4064 to comment but I think in operational M1 you might be shocked at how low of a powder charge will cycle a M1....
Bad clips can cause problems also. The Op Rod spring can be a cause of many issues to.
loose case cyl lockscrew ? I dont know enough about 4064 to comment but I think in operational M1 you might be shocked at how low of a powder charge will cycle a M1....
Ya I followed the CMP directions for grease points. I suppose it could have been the clip as it's hit the concrete a few times.
After clearing the jam, the case was bent right where the shoulder and neck meet. Also had a small ding in the shoulder
View attachment 116709
And after clearing the round, I was able to simply pull out the bullet without much effort. Not sure if that was from being crushed and opening up the case mouth or if it wasn't sized correctly? And I'm not sure if the ding in the shoulder was there before firing.
I had a few cases eject at 3-5 o clock position which I don't remember happening with hxp. The hxp would mainly eject 1-3 o clock if I recall.
My lock screws have not come loose since I started using the 1/4 drive T hands driver....I do check them every time and bring wrench with me....most times.
Looking @ your bent bullet ........ was it actually in the chamber? looks like bullet tip snagged top of barrel area and croaked the round...
diagnose section says.. point of bullet whipping out of line...cause follower and follower rod function, improper tension of the clip and follower on cartridge.
Failure to eject empty clip - clip ejector upward impulse not strong enough due to distorted or weak clip ejector or lack of free travel due to clip binding, clip latch or oprod catch binding. Cartridge ejecting to slowly knocking clip back in Due to follower slide interferes with cartridge, improper timing.
all 4 of my service grades have had form of quirky opperation at times. They all seemed to vanish once I installed the orion7 spring over haul kit.?
clips where designed for one time use. I had a batch of clips from 1972 HXP that where constant problems. would seat or eject. would get stuck inside mag well and would only come out if you dropped the trigger assembly....
Or its telling you to not use those bulk fmj when it sees you have some good food for it!
Looking @ your bent bullet ........ was it actually in the chamber? looks like bullet tip snagged top of barrel area and croaked the round...
diagnose section says.. point of bullet whipping out of line...cause follower and follower rod function, improper tension of the clip and follower on cartridge.
Failure to eject empty clip - clip ejector upward impulse not strong enough due to distorted or weak clip ejector or lack of free travel due to clip binding, clip latch or oprod catch binding. Cartridge ejecting to slowly knocking clip back in Due to follower slide interferes with cartridge, improper timing.
all 4 of my service grades have had form of quirky opperation at times. They all seemed to vanish once I installed the orion7 spring over haul kit.?
clips where designed for one time use. I had a batch of clips from 1972 HXP that where constant problems. would seat or eject. would get stuck inside mag well and would only come out if you dropped the trigger assembly....
Or its telling you to not use those bulk fmj when it sees you have some good food for it!
I checked the screw and it was still snug. I used a 1/4 socket so I'd be surprised it would get loose after using that.
It was just barely in the chamber. One half was sticking out of the chamber as the bolt had it pinned against the outer chamber/barrel. Ya it could have been the bullet snagging the top of the barrel area. After looking at the bullet tip, it had some burrs and scuffs from the failure to feed so.
I've been using the same clip (that came with the rifle from cmp) even though I bought a pack of 6-8 new ones to use. I should probably try some other clips.
Haha I was thinking the same regarding those 150 gr FMJs! After seeing how accurate the 168s were and how they functioned flawlessly, I'm thinking I should sell the remaining 150s and stick with the 168s. I just noticed a vendor has the Nosler 168 BTHP CCs for $10-$15 cheaper than the Hornady 168s - when you buy 1000. I think the 168 Hornadys were like $250ish shipped and the Noslers were $240ish shipped. Might jump on those soon.
Also just bought one of those Caldwell brass traps to catch my brass. Getting old picking through the grass to find my brass. Especially when the range is busy and I can't call a cease fire after every clip.
don't get me wrong. clips can last a very long time. I have WWII ones that work fine. just start simple
as for the fmj's like I said I have no 4064 ecperience looking through my book my best groups came from bullets just seated to the cannelure touches the case and 46.5 grains of 4895.. I didnt take pics of my groups then.
my scribble of notes says average was 2.8" best 8 shot group was 2.35". This is shooting from the led sled. With my most accurate rifle.
as for the fmj's like I said I have no 4064 ecperience looking through my book my best groups came from bullets just seated to the cannelure touches the case and 46.5 grains of 4895.. I didnt take pics of my groups then.
my scribble of notes says average was 2.8" best 8 shot group was 2.35". This is shooting from the led sled. With my most accurate rifle.
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Cool. I'm going to try seating the 150s to the cannelure and decreasing the charge from 48 gr to 46 gr AND no crimp. If those don't shoot any better I'll probably throw the 150s in the classifieds and stick with the Hornady or Nosler 168s. Or possibly get some Varget or 4895 with the 150s but it doesn't seem worthy the hassle if the 168s shoot well with 4064. But who knows, maybe the 168s will shoot even tighter groups with Varget or 4895.
My use of 4064 was short lived I only had 1lb. Back then 4064 was not as plentiful as Varget and 4895. I only use Varget because it is the best over all in my many applications...
My recent HRA that I did the accuracy gain thread on with HXP will shoot 3" consistently with HXP
That is the key in IMHO is constancy . I have a SA 1952 that even after all I have done after 16 rounds the groups open up no matter the ammo.
My HRA with LMR barrel took some tweeking to get groups like this with HXP
Sorry this is Nosler reloads not HXP
My recent HRA that I did the accuracy gain thread on with HXP will shoot 3" consistently with HXP
That is the key in IMHO is constancy . I have a SA 1952 that even after all I have done after 16 rounds the groups open up no matter the ammo.
My HRA with LMR barrel took some tweeking to get groups like this with HXP
Sorry this is Nosler reloads not HXP
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My use of 4064 was short lived I only had 1lb. Back then 4064 was not as plentiful as Varget and 4895. I only use Varget because it is the best over all in my many applications...
My recent HRA that I did the accuracy gain thread on with HXP will shoot 3" consistently with HXP
That is the key in IMHO is constancy . I have a SA 1952 that even after all I have done after 16 rounds the groups open up no matter the ammo.
My HRA with LMR barrel took some tweeking to get groups like this with HXP
Wow! That's pretty damn good with hxp ammo and that's using your lead sled? And if I recall from your accuracy writeup with that rifle, you just replaced springs and got it to shoot better?
3" groups with hxp is awesome I'd say. From what I noticed after shooting my reloads last weekend, I think the softer recoil with my reloads is what's helping me tighten up the groups. The hxp definitely kicked more and then threw my sight picture off even more.
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So if I want a good sling for shooting not just some reproduction to match with the rifle, what would you recommend? I saw in one of the other garand threads you had a link for one of these:
http://www.m1garand.com/store/m1_garand_web_od_cotton_sling.html
I don't want to go crazy and spend $50+ on a sling either lol.
http://www.m1garand.com/store/m1_garand_web_od_cotton_sling.html
I don't want to go crazy and spend $50+ on a sling either lol.
Looking at their website, says to call for availability on the sling seconds. $25 cheaper for the seconds compared to the NM slings but it says you have to buy the swivels separately?
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![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
. Thanks.Web sling is just as good as a leather sling.... web sling a little easier to use than the leather.
I would recomend a USGI web sling.....plenty of them out there. I got some danish slings from numerich. They are a bit heavier weave and I think they have the better locking latch
For leather dont go anything less than a turner or a brown M1907 Match sling
