OK, i'll play the devil's advocate , explain to me exactly how you legally and clearly define a person with "issues" in order to execute a truly functional, and not restrictive law ?
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Multiple victims in Oxford High School shooting, Oakland County Sheriff confirms
- Thread starter mikeyp
- Start date
Parents who knew something was wrong still bought him a firearm, and proceed in the attempt to run to Canada after he shoots up the joint. Mom sends texts telling him to learn not to get caught after the ammo search, and "don't do it" when it appeared he was ventilating his fellow students.
They are accessory to multiple murders.
They are accessory to multiple murders.
Well, they have to pick something from their wish list that could not have prevented the tragedy, so mandatory liability insurance is a fair guess.
VetteGirlMA
NES Member
How we even know anything about the kid being ill or the parents even knowing? I mean there's lots of kids who won't say anything to their parents.
My teaching license isn't my only license. I've taken a lot of courses on this and appeared at many, many hearings.
Searching the bag would not necessarily have stopped the shooting. It might have started it sooner, and in the principal's office. It's the road not taken; we can't know.
Smart administrators know their handbook and their School Committee's policies backward and forward. It keeps them un-sued. REALLY smart principals spend a lot of time making friends with the local CoP, so that everyone knows the lines of authority in cases like this.
slugworth
NES Member
This….
When your first reaction to word of a possible school shooting in your area is to text your son to say "don't do it", you knew.
Chevy 2 65
NES Member
They had an idea only after the gun went missing. And has for the comment about the ammo search. That is a reach, is it against the law to search online for ammo?
The mother and father are idiots, yes. The search comment was more than likely because he was caught using his phone in class/school.
They had an idea that morning after the sit down with the school. They had an idea when social media was blowing up in the area over his comments over the weekend.
Your timeline is off.
The issue isn't the search; it's the enabling by the parent. "Oh, you just need to hide it!". No- he doesn't need to be searching online for ammo in a HS classroom. Even when legitimately educated and respectful of firearms, a child should be instructed to not put a target on one's back.
Meanwhile, this perp was already making threats. "OH, you just need to learn to hide it!" doesn't pass the sniff test.
The mother and father are cowards. Their first response of the incarceration of their boy is to *run*, effectively abandoning him on the spot.
There's more to this, and the actions of the parents will likely show that this wasn't an unexpected outcome by any stretch of their imaginations.
Chevy 2 65
NES Member
f*** it, hang all 3. You just sealed it. Open and shut case. That was easy
namedpipes
NES Member
I can't and that's a piece of what I meant:
... If you have kids (or others living with you) that have "issues" then you REALLY ought to keep your guns locked up. ...
Is very different from "there oughta be a law".
Some judge once defined porn by saying "I can't describe it but I know it when I see it". Or words to that effect.
If your kid is effed in the head, then you do or SHOULD know it.
This case is sounding more and more like the Dursleys.
Can someone fluent with Photoshop dub in the Crumble's faces? I can pay you with a heartfelt "Thanks"
![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
fshalor
NES Member
The mom's texts are very convenient.
Also. Coming to a school PTO meeting and entry way near you!
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namedpipes
NES Member
Search and risk instigating an immediate shooting or don't search and risk a later shooting. It's a roll of the dice, but searching (and they absolutely had reasonable suspicion) the bag under the circumstances is the morally correct thing to do. It's just "harder". Searching the locker should have been a given.
AHM
NES Member
I was going to ask whether schools have become "mandatory non-reporters".
But I discovered that our town's high school student handbook
explicitly states that no policy or regulation prohibits:
- Anyone from reporting any crime to any authorities.
- Detention by police of criminals, or anyone who poses a security risk.
- Mandatory reporters fulfilling their legal requirements.
Our town's school "reserves the right" to search students and their possessions
for contraband upon "reasonable suspicion" of violation of school rules.
- School rules can and do forbid activities and items which are in no way illegal.
- They don't even constrain themselves to be able to articulate their "reasonable suspicion".
Why would Step One be convening the Suspension Committee instead of calling the police?
Can you get more supine than that?
If staff discovers a fire in the cafeteria,
do they summon a chemistry teacher to discuss
the fine points of aerobic combustion,
or do they pull the fire alarm?
Oxford High School Student Handbook:
When you first click on the hyperlink above,
the web site displays three pop-up alerts;
the first starting with:
AlertsTOGETHER WE ARE #OXFORDSTRONG
...
If you brush that aside
and try to read the actual text of the actual student handbook,
you get:
Server Error
404 - File or directory not found.
The resource you are looking for might have been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable.
If I didn't know better, I'd think that the district
is hiding the school security policies from public review.
#OXFORDSTRONG
After all,
it worked out so well when Nancy Lanza gave her mental case son
full access to her guns in the privacy of her own home.
Yes.
Hence, my earlier post about this being a judgement call, and the principal undoubtedly beating himself up about it now. We're saying the same thing. It's still much, much easier to do all this in hindsight than it is at the time.
I was a school social worker in a high school of 1,200 kids before retiring. We were large enough to have RSO's on campus and many times those officers were involved in student and parent meetings. We had some crazy kids. Lockers and backpacks were searched when needed. Kids were told to go home, many on multiple day suspensions. On occasion, when things were drastic, the local Crisis Team was called for interventions and at times, a psych assessment was required and done. Granted this case was in a small village, no local PD only a county Sheriff's office, so no RSO's. Their counseling/mental health staff didn't exist, but notification of the Sheriff should have happened. The kid should have been referred for Special Ed services or placement, and an assessment for treatment. The parents could have been referred, under the dramatic circumstances, for a neglect report. They were major friggin' nuts and in huge denial.
We don't know all the circumstances of his history over the years in school, the parents interactions with the schools or in the community, but this was a major cluster and so much more could have been done. And buying him a gun was not one of the best.
We don't know all the circumstances of his history over the years in school, the parents interactions with the schools or in the community, but this was a major cluster and so much more could have been done. And buying him a gun was not one of the best.
Not a bad idea, but none of that is emergent. High school SPED referral teams meet once a month, if that. Calling the cops to go to Mom and Dad's house would have been groundless, would not have found any violations (presumably), and would have opened them up to a lawsuit. Granted, the missing gun might have been discovered and Mom and Dad might have figured out the perp had it, but we already know what the result would have been: a text from Mom. Which might have caused him to start shooting. We'll never know.
If I'm understanding this correctly, this kid had the gun in has bag that day. During the parent meeting, which seems to have been the first time Mom and Dad were told of the severity of the school disruption that had occurred the day before (when he was ordering ammo on his phone). Prior to that, the school's claiming they never had an inkling this kid was trouble.
Even a CHINs is not immediate, and in this case, all the kid had to do was ask to go to the bathroom and then come out shooting. I think the gun was coming out, regardless of what the administrators tried.
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AHM
NES Member
I swear I thought I was in this thread
when I read this post in another thread.
![[shocked]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/007.gif "Shocked [shocked]")
![[angry]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/008.gif "Angry [angry]")
(Not throwing shade at @Drix; jus' sayin').
namedpipes
NES Member
Calling to cops to advise them of the situation, though, is completely appropriate.
Granted, it seems the parents BEYOND dropped the ball. In this case so did the school.
No way in hell was the school unaware of this kid before that day.
Maybe, maybe not. We have no way of knowing, as we sit here.
I've seen kids go from YEARS of quiet, uneventful time in the back row of classrooms to, suddenly, getting manhandled out by the cops and then kicking out the back windows of their cruisers. I have no idea what happened here, but I can full well believe this kid flew completely under the radar.
SFC13557
NES Member
Parents are scapegoats, are they stupid? Yes. What law did they break? Their lawyer said gun was secured in home. Prosecutor said from day one she was going after parents, she didn't communicate with Sheriff about warrant for their arrest and according to parents 2 lawyers didn't respond to lawyers attempts to contact her to arrange for surrender. MacDonald is looking for publicity, why wasn't backpack/locker searched after kid had meeting with School officials after meeting over drawing? School Official stated their was no cause for disciplinary action and apparently the kid had no prior incidents. There are thousands of armed gangbangers walking the streets with prior records for armed assault, see the Columbia grad student stabbed to death in NYC by a Black man with multiple arrests for violent assault. Parents are white Midwesteners so no sympathy from Media. Remember the black kid who shot 3 people in his HS in Texas a few months ago? He was out on bail within hours and his family was posting pics on facebook. I guess the gun didn't kill, it was the white kid unlike the SUV driven by the black felon that killed 6 people in WI?
CatSnoutSoup
NES Member
Don't you hate it when think you are being cool and then realize you randomly inserted the wrong word.
Sounds like the school took some notes out of the FBI playbook, “well he was on our watchlist, so we’re trying.” Lot of fail to go around with this little psycho.
I’ve seen his picture pop up and I gotta say, IMO anyway having dealt with hundreds of EDP’s, anybody that saw that look and didn’t think “oh shit that boy ain’t right” and kind of squirm in your seat isn’t paying attention.
I’ve seen his picture pop up and I gotta say, IMO anyway having dealt with hundreds of EDP’s, anybody that saw that look and didn’t think “oh shit that boy ain’t right” and kind of squirm in your seat isn’t paying attention.
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