MRA Falling Steel Match

saltydude said:
Yup reduced power plated bullets IMO are ideal for steel.
The only issues we have had in the past is with TMJ bullets. Total metal jacketed bullets or completely encased jacketed bullets.
Well that's what eye protection is for. Jacket ricochets are common. Semi jacket, FMJ, hollow point jacket fragments come back frequently.
If your standing in the wrong spot at the wrong time it usually just amounts to a quick little sting to the cheek or neck.
Click to expand...
Plated bullets are TMJ. And TMJ are plated.

FMJ basically takes a disc of copper and swages it over the bullet, nose first, crimping at the base. JHP works the same, but it starts from the base and crimps at the nose. So I believe that anything which is TMJ is actually plated.

Whatever, I'll stop whining now. It's their rules, and I'm sure they have their reasons.

Flyer, we stopped shooting pins for exactly that reason. We had someone hit at 50' hard enough in the sternum to leave a really good welt. If he'd been hit the face, we'd have been calling an ambulance.
 
M1911 said:
Plated bullets are TMJ. And TMJ are plated.
Click to expand...

I hear ya. Think I said this once a while back. Everytime I hear TMJ I think of some bullets I used a few years back in witch the manufacurer refered to them as tmj. They indeed had a "real" complete jacket.
So yes tmj or plated bullets are fine.
 
M1911 said:
Plated bullets are TMJ. And TMJ are plated.
Click to expand...

I disagree.

Plating refers to a process of dipping an object into a liquid metal to give it a coating. Chrome plating, copper plating ect... A "plated" bullet has a very thin coating of copper (typically) as it has been dipped.

A jacketed bullet has a much thicker and harder metal shell that encases a smaller lead core. TMJ usually refers to a bullet that has a jacket that completely encases the lead core. TMJs have a greater chance of bouncing back from hard targets than plated or even open backed FMJs do.

Jacketed
Jacketed.jpg


Plated
Plated.jpg
 
Flyer007 said:
I find I get hit a lot more shooting pins than steel. The bounce backs on pins can hurt if you catch them just right. I took one as a spectator one night when I was 60' from pin. Was wearing a t-shirt and it hit just right that it hit bone. That one stung.

I have been shooting montana golds and berry's for past year. No issues on steel.
Click to expand...

This. Of course it all depends on how cheap the people are that are running the pin shoots. If the pins turn into "epic bullet tampons" the likelihood of getting a bounceback increases. It's also probably worse with the "lite edition" pin shoots a lot of clubs run. (eg, they run them off tables about a foot or two wide and all you have to do is knock them off the little table). At normal pin shoots that use the second chance format (or at least something similar to it) large guns show up to the line, and when it's "time for the pin to be retired" someone will blow it apart with a .44 magnum (or greater) [laugh]

I've only ever witnessed bad splash problems with bad steel. (cratered steel = bad juju) I've shot plenty of good steel with my "bad" bullets and never had a problem.

By the time the next MRA shoot comes around I'll likely have a stash of "not banned" bullets set aside just for the task. [grin]

-Mike
 
MFP 4073 said:
I disagree.

Plating refers to a process of dipping an object into a liquid metal to give it a coating. Chrome plating, copper plating ect... A "plated" bullet has a very thin coating of copper (typically) as it has been dipped.

A jacketed bullet has a much thicker and harder metal shell that encases a smaller lead core. TMJ usually refers to a bullet that has a jacket that completely encases the lead core. TMJs have a greater chance of bouncing back from hard targets than plated or even open backed FMJs do.

Jacketed
Jacketed.jpg


Plated
Plated.jpg
Click to expand...

Thank you.
I've had this argument several times here on NES.
This last go around I thought I might have been experiencing early onset alztimers due to high sodium intake [smile]
It seems apparent the shooting community has a hard time with this termanology (TMJ)but plated & jacketed bullets are two completely different animals & these are terms I've always lived by & held as being gospel.
 
I think some commercial manufacturers have ammo that is sold as TMJ that is indeed plated. I can't recall which mfr it was but I recall pulling the bullet.
 
Sorry, but I have never seen a TMJ bullet that is not plated. Look at the base of an FMJ bullet and you can see how the jacket was swaged onto the core. Explain to me how you can do that and cover the entire base. Or pull a TMJ bullet from the case and look at the base. I think you will see that it is plated.

It is your range and your rules and I respect that.
 
M1911 said:
Sorry, but I have never seen a TMJ bullet that is not plated. Look at the base of an FMJ bullet and you can see how the jacket was swaged onto the core. Explain to me how you can do that and cover the entire base. Or pull a TMJ bullet from the case and look at the base. I think you will see that it is plated.

It is your range and your rules and I respect that.
Click to expand...

Jared I agree with your first statement... however... TMJ (aka CMJ) is possible with real "jackets". Montana Gold makes them- it's just like a FMJ with a little round "cover" installed at the base- so they are truly Total Metal JACKET (CMJ is Complete Metal Jacket).

Problem is manufacturers screw it all up and name things wrong! lol
 
Lugnut said:
Jared I agree with your first statement... however... TMJ (aka CMJ) is possible with real "jackets". Montana Gold makes them- it's just like a FMJ with a little round "cover" installed at the base- so they are truly Total Metal JACKET (CMJ is Complete Metal Jacket).

Problem is manufacturers screw it all up and name things wrong! lol
Click to expand...

Yeah, but the jacket even with the montanas isn't "contiguous" like it is with a plated bullet like a TMJ. That little cover plate parts company with the jacket when the bullet hits something hard.

Speer makes TMJ bullets. I bet they are plated, just very thick plated. Hell, even plating differs between manufacturers. I've gotten some plated bullets where the plating is thick enough that it might as well be jacketed. (EG, if I overcrimp the piss out of them you will see dented plating but still no lead!)

-Mike
 
I think we are kind of slitting hairs now. ;) The thing is a jacket in not the same as plating, whether of not it's one piece or two. Mike- it might have been Speer or CCI that I pulled the bullet.... it was plated for sure- not a jacket of any sort. Jackets slip over the lead... plating is a chemical process that is usually thinner than a jacket and is chemical bonded to the lead. So... being anal about this... Speer is using the term TMJ wrong IMO. :)
 
Lugnut said:
Jared I agree with your first statement... however... TMJ (aka CMJ) is possible with real "jackets". Montana Gold makes them- it's just like a FMJ with a little round "cover" installed at the base- so they are truly Total Metal JACKET (CMJ is Complete Metal Jacket).

Problem is manufacturers screw it all up and name things wrong! lol
Click to expand...
Really? I stand corrected. I can understand that manufacturing process -- slap a disc on the base and swage the FMJ over it so the bit of the FMJ that goes around the circumference of the base retains the disc. Cool.

Speer makes TMJ bullets. I bet they are plated, just very thick plated
Click to expand...
That is my belief as well.

That said, sorry for the carping. Your range, your rules.
 
So.... should be a fun and causual match. Always good shooting, conversation and laughs. I think you all should go.

As the Salty one said earlier, plated, dipped or copper washed bullets (like Berry's, Rainers ect.) are good to go, so are hollow points and open backed FMJ's like the one above.

Lets have some fun!
 
Thanks to everyone who came out to play. Lots of folks and a lot of fun. Thank you to everyone who helped keep everything running smooth and as quickly and safe as possible. Hope to see everyone next month (march 6th)
 
I didn't expect so many people to be competing, but the range is large, and there was plenty of room for everyone. The match was run very efficiently by Massman and others who I didn't get a chance to meet. Obviously, you guys have done this before!

Lots of people pitched in to reset the steel, and that kept things moving. Thanks to everyone who contributed to making my first time shooting steel like this an enjoyable experience. I hope to be a little more outgoing next time so that I can meet more of you.
 
Hey Massman thanks for answering my emails.

Figured I'd ask, but is anyone from the Boston/Cambridge/Quincy/Malden areas attending?
I don't have a vehicle since I can get to school by train.
Can treat you to lunch, do gas, or supply ammo (9mm) if you got an extra seat.
Thanks
 
Big thanks go out to Joe D aka jmnjoeyd1 and Steve. Not only did he give me a lift, but also showed me the ropes and gave lots of good advice. Outside of paper punching, this is the most interactive shooting I've done with pistol.

75 plates and 95 rounds later, I'm officially hooked. Was pretty happy with everything all things considered. The 229 didn't skip a beat between cheapo UMC and Blazer. After seeing a photo, I do need to work on my stance. My upper body is all sorts of improper.

The folks with the beeper thing were real friendly and took a lot of anxiety off once at the table. First time shooters must have this look in their face cause he had me pegged right away as a noob[laugh] Can't wait to do it again and get into some other events.

Edit: Is there a way to see our times? I was busy helping tear down and forgot all about it. Not that I did amazing, but for future reference.
 
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That was a great shoot, I uploaded all the vidios on my page on youtube
jhaas38super
Dave those were not my hands putting the HEX on you!! in the vidio
 

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