Moron downrange photographer

[Jose]

These are bankers, bricklayers, and Quickymart clerks learning the basics of defensive shooting. Putting a human being into deadly harms way purposefully in front of them is 100% unconscionable, period, end of discussion.

I didn't know you were there and know all those people.

That entire exercise is an affront to the entire hobby

Highlighted in red is the fundamental difference in our viewpoints.

 

[theGringo]

And now for something completely different:

 

[RI_John]

Hey, if these retards want to try to catch bullets in their mouths like those stunt guys did in the 70's, I don't care, but let's not pretend it has anything to do with "training". The photographer wasn't there to make everyone concentrate more, he was there to get his cool "tactical photographs", since he teaches "tactical photography" when he's not being a retard.

 

[Climbnsink]

Hey, if these retards want to try to catch bullets in their mouths like those stunt guys did in the 70's, I don't care, but let's not pretend it has anything to do with "training". The photographer wasn't there to make everyone concentrate more, he was there to get his cool "tactical photographs", since he teaches "tactical photography" when he's not being a retard.

I agree.
Damn, I wonder if you need tactical pants to take tactical pictures?

 

[Number 6]

I don't know about tactical pants but if it was me taking those photos...I would need another pair of tactical underwear

I agree.
Damn, I wonder if you need tactical pants to take tactical pictures?

 

[MMF]

I don't know about tactical pants but if it was me taking those photos...I would need another pair of tactical underwear

bulletproof tactical underwhere....

 

[George D]

What part of MANSLAUGHTER don't you understand?

You can't have MANSLAUGHTER without LAUGHTER

 

[Lucas McCain]

Somehow related?

 

[Sleepytime]

There is stupid... and then there is just plain retarded.

 

[z0mbi]

You know, as a photographer who enjoys taking photos of people shooting, I can understand this guys burning desire to be on the action side of the subject. I'm sick of taking pictures of the backs of peoples heads.

But I don't value a good photo over my life, that's for damn sure. The only time I want to be on the receiving end of incoming rounds is if it's for a DAMN good cause... and even then, I'd like to be shooting back, and not with a Nikon.

 

[RI_John]

This is from the retard instructor's website:

There are two main rules for attending one of our classes: have an open mind and be safe at all times.

 

[cekim]

There is stupid... and then there is just plain retarded.

And then, another mile further past "plain retarded" on the stupid spectrum, there's that guy...

Who evidently is ignorant not only of gun safety but physics as well...

Not everything you fire goes straight (or stops at the berm)...

He's leaving no room for error in the case that a bullet fragments, ricochets off the target stand or off of buried metal/debris in the berm...

I'm with those that say the instructor as well as those firing on the line are just as dumb as he is, but what a fine demonstration of sheeple herding behavior even amongst gun owners... [sad2]

 

[TomH]

Possibly the dumbest group of people I have ever seen. I understand what Jose is saying... but in the context of this video it is downright dangerous.

 

[CRSIII]

Call me morbid, but if the shutterbug got shot, I would have laughed.

 

[GSG]

Everyone involved deserves to lose their LTC.

I disagree.

When you think about it, when we train, we train to hit our target. Stray rounds are unacceptable in a defensive situation as there is huge liability to hitting a bystander that even Stand Your Ground laws do not shield. I bet that man there made all the shooters around him bear down hard on the job at hand.

The way I practice not shooting things I don't want to is by not putting things in front of my muzzle that I don't want to shoot.

 

[RI_John]

Okay, this is for real. This is not an “accident”, this is a regular part of their training at Tactical Response. They actually have you, the student, stand next to targets with live fire to your left and right in their “advanced” training class. Keep in mind these classes are open to ANYBODY with no prerequisites whatsoever. The photographer regularly stands downrange in the BEGINNER class.

To get the following information, I joined the forum there. I used my name here- JohnM and I am posting some of the comments here since I can’t link to them. GetofftheX is a public forum and I in no way said or did anything deceitful to join the forum. If you don’t like me posting quotes from another public forum, I’m sorry, but I feel it is ethical.

It looks like Jose would and should train here, he could stand downrange to his heart’s content.

This quote is from the instructor and founder- James Yeager

Well thanks to "somebody" a video was posted of Jay taking photos in front of the firing line. I have gotten over 100 hate mails about it so far.

So let's discuss the benifits and detriments of "breaking the 180 rule" (that isn't a rule at all).

And these were just a few of the quotes from his “warrior switched on” students- the comments speak for themselves.

You will always get hatemail from pussies for doing warrior things.

I actually welcomed the chance to get in front of (but not directly) of a muzzle. Feeling the blast, the differences between calibers muzzle blast is great, was a great learning experience.

The human target stand drill in the Advanced class really got me to respect my fellow shooters, and with the right shooters (namely most people I've seen at TR classes) I am perfectly willing to stand next to the target.

You are in far more danger having a stupid motherf***er on your left or your right, than being downrange and to the side from a group of switched on individuals.

Trying to argue this on some of these other forums is like trying to explain math to a monkey......

 

[namedpipes]

I was noticing the two supporters on the video comments were about as teachable as monkeys. How ironic...

There is some website "yeager is scum" or something like that, that would probably shed some light on why he does this, but I fear it would be too depressing to read!

Am I a pussy? In Yeager's view, sure am, and I am proud of it! You are what you ... well, you know

 

[ateamrob]

I have been watching this thread for a while now and I have held my toungue because overall I agree with you guys. Its not a safe practice and it is not something that should be considered ok in most situations. So I am essentially agreeing with all of you. Make no mistake.

Now I am going to give you some feedback that some of you will undoubtedly flame me on or certainly question and that is ok but I do need to share this with you. Please read what I have to say with an open mind though. That is all I ask.

This practice is 100% normal if you go to a real hi speed school. Camera men, shooters and other Instrcutors will be downrange durning courses of fire.

Many Special Forces, Rangers, Delta and various SWAT ranges are set up like that where shooters have their own lanes and while others are shooting others are checking/hanging their targets sometimes 20 yards in front of the shooters only 6 to 10 feet away from passing rounds. I have been to 4 tactical pistol courses (one of them Suarez International) taught by SF and Delta guys where camera men take pictures next to your target while you shoot and shooters are ahead of each other in wedge, diamond or V formations while moving and shooting. Perfectly normal for those types of classes in many cases on a 360% range.

The individual that turned around after shooting was performing a deep scan technique and that range is again, a 360% range.

Now that being said, that certainly is not the norm with schools with having people down range while shooting is going on but make no mistake, that is not an abnormal practice when you are dealing with certain hi speed shooters/agencies and Instructors for various reasons. The Instructor shooters MUST be confident and comfortable with rounds going around them because that is exactly what real time, real life shoots are like and if you have shooters that crack under that kind of pressure on the range, there is no doubt what they will do in a real situation. That is the mindset my last instructor at a school like that mentionled. In a school like that the Instructors will examine their shooters and know EXACTLY the talent of the student they are dealing with before they allow any practice like that to occur.

Now my final thought….. no I don’t think that is how ranges and schools should be conducted. Obvious reasons why but I have taken 4 classes where we were put in situations like that. I have never been in a firefight and I hope I never have to be and I will tell you that it does take some getting used to being on a range like that but I will say that I had 100% confidence in the people I was training with and I learned a lot and it was a GREAT expirience as well.

I just needed to make this post to A) agree with you guys that it is in fact UNSAFE in every way, shape and form and B) let you know that it does happen in certain schools for certain reasons.

thanks for reading what I had to say.

Rob

 

[01SVTvert]

I can understand being on a hot range with what ateamrob describes if you are with the millitary, police, or other high stakes security force that has a high likelyhood, or damn near certainty of being in harms way while in a group setting.

However to have just anyone, and not knowig their skill level, sign up for a course and then have a damn photographer get in front of them is asinine at best. The reason dictates the necessity of this situation. Rounds flying overhead of a Marine during combat training is one thing, running small squad tactics with a 360 field of fire another but at a paid academy to get pictures of "muzzle flash" is beyond stupidity to me.

 

[dannyk45]

WTF

 

[Ish]

If ignorant stupid idiots like those on the video, I mean all of them, could fly we will never be able to see the sunlight. In other words; if assh***s could fly that training place will be an airport.

Ish.

 

[RI_John]

Many Special Forces, Rangers, Delta and various SWAT ranges are set up like that where shooters have their own lanes and while others are shooting others are checking/hanging their targets sometimes 20 yards in front of the shooters only 6 to 10 feet away from passing rounds.

I'm pretty sure the fellows in the video were not Spec Ops! but hey, if people want to pay thousands of dollars to pretend they're delta commandos and have people who have 1 day of training shooting 3 feet from their heads, more power to them.

But if someone is so gung ho they want to seriously risk their lives just to play army, why the hell don't they just enlist? There are a couple wars going on right now where they really can be shot at and not just be called retarded idiot wannabes!

 

[z0mbi]

All it would take is one guy to jerk the trigger. I hope they at least have some sort of standard where they make sure you're a damn fine shooter before they put you in a situation where you could potentially blow someone away.

Someone as inconsistent on the trigger as me would absolutely fail this. I would have put one right into that guy at some point, I'm sure of it.

 

[squirt]

Sometimes we, as gun owners, are our own worst enemy.

 

[namedpipes]

You know what kills me? You know, APART from being a photographer for Tactical Response?

That SO many people are supporting it. Not here so much, but on the comments to the video.

Does ANYONE on this planet need that kind of training? I could almost understand the military using techniques like that, but indications are that they do not. If THEY don't need it then who the heck does?

Want "blooded" police officers? Exclusively (or primarily) hire new officers that are ex-miltary. Poof. Half your training is done for you.

That "training" is not needed. It seems to me to be a way for the "warrior" Jerry Yeager to puff up his chest.

Chuck would NOT be proud to share the name.

 

[ateamrob]

guys, guys, guys..... again I agree with you.

I am merley just stating how some of the Special Ops ranges are run today. I am not in any way justifiying this or other ranges that do this. I am just saying that I have been to a few of them that I do for my job where it has been like this. I can not justify how this range is being run and again agree with you that they do not look to be any form of special ops.

again.... I absolutely agree with you. UNSAFE....

 

[Rate_of_Twist]

as others have said, further "proof" that "all" gun owners are morons........

To Jose, and anyone else that thinks this is a great idea..... see you on CNN when one of you misses. You want to play army, join the army. I'm all for practice/training ect but as usuall you 1% make the rest of us 99% look stupid.

 

[Rate_of_Twist]

Oh yeah, I wrote this "school" a email asking why ( politely ) this was allowed and encouraged. I received a 3 word response from "MR" Yeager. It was as follows, " GO F$CK YOURSELF"

 

[cekim]

I received a 3 word response from "MR" Yeager. It was as follows, " GO F$CK YOURSELF"

Wow, that's a pretty thoughtful explanation...

Clearly a leading intellectual of our time.

Someone people should spend more time down range

 

[HKdrummer]

A day late and a dollar short clicked the link in whatever this thread was about is GONZO so apparently it must have been good!