Missed Connections

[MachineHead]

Also, you cannot be labeled unsuitable for doing EXACTLY what your license permits you to do. The SJC has (surprisingly) been very clear on this topic as well.

Wasn't the Simkin case the one where the SJC determined this?

 

[browncoat]

I saw a truck with Utah plates on 495.. Guy had a lever action rifle in the gun rack.

What I want to know is how did he get through NY?

 

[CRSIII]

I won't oc because like I said before, it lets a bg know who to shoot first.

 

[TheGreekFreak]

Does accidently exposing while you CC count as "open carry" or brandishing the gun in public here in MA? Should probably know this already lol. I feel like less people in this state are afraid when they see someone OC because, as stated, they just assume the person is LE. If they see it tucked under a shirt, they suspect your hiding an illegal gun and its time to call the task force.

 

[kalash]

Does accidently exposing while you CC count as "open carry" or brandishing the gun in public here in MA? Should probably know this already lol. I feel like less people in this state are afraid when they see someone OC because, as stated, they just assume the person is LE. If they see it tucked under a shirt, they suspect your hiding an illegal gun and its time to call the task force.

I don't think MA has a brandishing charge...

 

[MachineHead]

Does accidently exposing while you CC count as "open carry" or brandishing the gun in public here in MA? Should probably know this already lol. I feel like less people in this state are afraid when they see someone OC because, as stated, they just assume the person is LE. If they see it tucked under a shirt, they suspect your hiding an illegal gun and its time to call the task force.

Brandishing is not a crime in MA, assault with a deadly weapon or disturbing the peace is. If your skirt flies up during a heavy breeze and shows your leg holstered carry gun, then you're still not assaulting anyone because it's not illegal to have your gun showing in a non-threatening manner.

If your gun accidentally shows, then it shows. It's not a crime and anyone who wets their panties because they were scared at seeing your gun doesn't really have a legal leg to stand on. This was covered in the Simkin case.

 

[sig shooter]

Even when viewed in their totality, Simkin's arguably unusual but otherwise innocuous actions did not provide a “reasonable ground” to deem him no longer a “suitable person” to carry firearms. This is particularly the case where the Executive Office of Public Safety and Security or its designee has not promulgated any regulations governing suitability, and therefore has provided applicants and license holders with little guidance on what it means to be a “suitable person.” In the absence of any such regulations, individual suitability determinations become more susceptible to attack on the ground that they are arbitrary and capricious. - See more at: http://caselaw.findlaw.com/ma-supreme-judicial-court/1641408.html#sthash.svMTfWBH.dpuf

Next, we suspect that the average Massachusetts resident may become “alarmed” on learning that someone other than a law enforcement officer is carrying concealed weapons in his or her presence. However,*Simkin*is not responsible for alarm caused to others by his mere carrying of concealed weapons pursuant to a license permitting him to do exactly that."

From commonwealth 2a website. Please excuse the format, it was copy and pasted from my phone.



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[MachineHead]

Many people feel that if they carry a*firearmopenly on an LTC that their police chief will deem them 'unsuitable' and revoke their LTC.**FRB v. Simkin*largely forestalls that possibility:

Even when viewed in their totality, Simkin’s arguably unusual but otherwise innocuous actions did not provide a “reasonable ground” to deem him no longer a “suitable person” to carry firearms. This is particularly the case where the Executive Office of Public Safety and Security or its designee*has not promulgated any regulations governing suitability, and therefore has provided applicants and license holders with little guidance on what it means to be a “suitable person.” In the absence of any such regulations, individual suitability determinations become more susceptible to attack on the ground that they are arbitrary and capricious.

Even when viewed in their totality, Simkin's arguably unusual but otherwise innocuous actions did not provide a “reasonable ground” to deem him no longer a “suitable person” to carry firearms. This is particularly the case where the Executive Office of Public Safety and Security or its designee has not promulgated any regulations governing suitability, and therefore has provided applicants and license holders with little guidance on what it means to be a “suitable person.” In the absence of any such regulations, individual suitability determinations become more susceptible to attack on the ground that they are arbitrary and capricious. - See more at: http://caselaw.findlaw.com/ma-supreme-judicial-court/1641408.html#sthash.svMTfWBH.dpuf

Even when viewed in their totality, Simkin's arguably unusual but otherwise innocuous actions did not provide a “reasonable ground” to deem him no longer a “suitable person” to carry firearms. This is particularly the case where the Executive Office of Public Safety and Security or its designee has not promulgated any regulations governing suitability, and therefore has provided applicants and license holders with little guidance on what it means to be a “suitable person.” In the absence of any such regulations, individual suitability determinations become more susceptible to attack on the ground that they are arbitrary and capricious. - See more at: http://caselaw.findlaw.com/ma-supreme-judicial-court/1641408.html#sthash.svMTfWBH.dpuf

Even when viewed in their totality, Simkin's arguably unusual but otherwise innocuous actions did not provide a “reasonable ground” to deem him no longer a “suitable person” to carry firearms. This is particularly the case where the Executive Office of Public Safety and Security or its designee has not promulgated any regulations governing suitability, and therefore has provided applicants and license holders with little guidance on what it means to be a “suitable person.” In the absence of any such regulations, individual suitability determinations become more susceptible to attack on the ground that they are arbitrary and capricious. - See more at: http://caselaw.findlaw.com/ma-supreme-judicial-court/1641408.html#sthash.svMTfWBH.dpuf

"Next, we suspect that the average Massachusetts resident may become “alarmed” on learning that someone other than a law enforcement officer is carrying concealed weapons in his or her presence. However,*Simkin*is not responsible for alarm caused to others by his mere carrying of concealed weapons pursuant to a license permitting him to do exactly that."

From commonwealth 2a website.



Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Can you please repeat that one more time? I still don't get it. Just kidding [lol]

 

[daekken]

I won't oc because like I said before, it lets a bg know who to shoot first.

Ditto. I would only OC for a certain circumstance, like hiking, where I would be more likely to encounter a four-legged BG.

 

[drgrant]

I won't oc because like I said before, it lets a bg know who to shoot first.

I think this is crap too, or at best, a corner case crap shoot.

-Mike

 

[CRSIII]

I think this is crap too, or at best, a corner case crap shoot.

-Mike

Esplain?

 

[LoginName]

Brandishing is not a crime in MA, assault with a deadly weapon or disturbing the peace is. If your skirt flies up during a heavy breeze and shows your leg holstered carry gun, then you're still not assaulting anyone because it's not illegal to have your gun showing in a non-threatening manner.

If your gun accidentally shows, then it shows. It's not a crime and anyone who wets their panties because they were scared at seeing your gun doesn't really have a legal leg to stand on. This was covered in the Simkin case.

There was another case in Dedham, I believe (I don't have all the details), where some guy who had a valid, unrestricted

LTC was walking along carrying a pizza, a gust of wind blew his coat aside, a cop spotted the firearm and called him on it.

He wasn't arrested or charged with anything, but word got back to the issuing authority, and his LTC was yanked based on suitability.

He eventually got his license restored, but I can only imagine what his court costs and time were like.

 

[MachineHead]

There was another case in Dedham, I believe (I don't have all the details), where some guy who had a valid, unrestricted

LTC was walking along carrying a pizza, a gust of wind blew his coat aside, a cop spotted the firearm and called him on it.

He wasn't arrested or charged with anything, but word got back to the issuing authority, and his LTC was yanked based on suitability.

He eventually got his license restored, but I can only imagine what his court costs and time were like.

I remember seeing a thread regarding the Dedham pizza incident. It may have been before the law being laid down by the Simkin case.

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

Wasn't the Simkin case the one where the SJC determined this?

Yes, this is the case. Simkin wasn't open carrying, but the decision makes clear that Simkin wasn't responsible for other people being alarmed over his possession of a firearm while he was possessing it according to the terms of his license.

Does accidently exposing while you CC count as "open carry" or brandishing the gun in public here in MA? Should probably know this already lol. I feel like less people in this state are afraid when they see someone OC because, as stated, they just assume the person is LE. If they see it tucked under a shirt, they suspect your hiding an illegal gun and its time to call the task force.

Legally there really is no difference between open and concealed carry in Massachusetts. Other than the requirement of an unrestricted LTC for concealed carry, the law makes no distinction.

I don't typically open carry other, but mostly because I'm not one to try to attract attention. However, I usually don't get all wound up about concealing my handgun either. If someone knows what they're looking for and is paying attention, it is not usually difficult to tell I'm carrying. Much of the time I'm carrying a P226 in a Kydex paddle holster with a sweatshirt pulled over it. Yes, it looks like I'm carrying to anyone who is reasonably observant and actually knows what carry a gun looks like. No one does, not even the police.

Rather than open vs. concealed carry, I've adopted the term "discreet carry".

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

Wasn't the Simkin case the one where the SJC determined this?

Does accidently exposing while you CC count as "open carry" or brandishing the gun in public here in MA? Should probably know this already lol. I feel like less people in this state are afraid when they see someone OC because, as stated, they just assume the person is LE. If they see it tucked under a shirt, they suspect your hiding an illegal gun and its time to call the task force.

There was another case in Dedham, I believe (I don't have all the details), where some guy who had a valid, unrestricted

LTC was walking along carrying a pizza, a gust of wind blew his coat aside, a cop spotted the firearm and called him on it.

He wasn't arrested or charged with anything, but word got back to the issuing authority, and his LTC was yanked based on suitability.

He eventually got his license restored, but I can only imagine what his court costs and time were like.

I know the individual and the story. That was then, this is now. It's no longer relevant.