minimum SHOOTING distance from a dwelling?

[sweetjeep]

Hi folks.. another tough to search question here.

What is, if any, the minimum distance I need to be from other dwellings to SHOOT. Not hunt, just plan shoot.

I know that hunting is 500', but that appeared to be specific to hunting and not shooting. Or did the legalese confound my brain again?

 

[HTRN]

http://www.malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartIV/TitleI/Chapter269/Section12e

Section 12E. Whoever discharges a firearm as defined in section one hundred and twenty-one of chapter one hundred and forty, a rifle or shotgun within five hundred feet of a dwelling or other building in use, except with the consent of the owner or legal occupant thereof, shall be punished by a fine of not less than fifty nor more than one hundred dollars or by imprisonment in a jail or house of correction for not more than three months, or both. The provisions of this section shall not apply to (a) the lawful defense of life and property; (b) any law enforcement officer acting in the discharge of his duties; (c) persons using underground or indoor target or test ranges with the consent of the owner or legal occupant thereof; (d) persons using outdoor skeet, trap, target or test ranges with the consent of the owner or legal occupant of the land on which the range is established; (e) persons using shooting galleries, licensed and defined under the provisions of section fifty-six A of chapter one hundred and forty; and (f) the discharge of blank cartridges for theatrical, athletic, ceremonial, firing squad, or other purposes in accordance with section thirty-nine of chapter one hundred and forty-eight.

 

[MisterHappy]

HTRN:

You're doing it wrong!

We're supposed to have a few (or more) posts with opinions, generally with an INAL and YMMV, before black-letter law is cited.



OP: One thing to consider is that there's a difference between what is lawful, and what is Massprudent. You list your location as North Cnetral Mass, so you may have some space....but if you have neighbors 550 feet away, that lack humor, they may get John Law involved.

How mellow are your neighbors?

 

[Coyote Hunter]

We were shooting at a friends in Chester NH and called the PD to ask. They didn't know but said they would get back to us. About 20 minutes later they called back and told us 300 feet.

 

[sweetjeep]

HTRN: thank you. But that illustrated my point of confusion.

Section d: persons using outdoor skeet, trap, target or test ranges with the consent of the owner or legal occupant of the land on which the range is established;

That tells me specifically that I can skip the 500' clause. Unless I read incorrectly it says nothing about being a licensed range or anything of the like. I am the land owner so I grant myself permission. Incidentally I am/can be 500' from the neighbors.

Which incidentally brings up the next point. I have new neighbors. And they are dumbasses. They were happy to cut down and run over 3 of my fruit trees, drive over my "lawn" and then deny it was their fault because a plumber did it. Then had the audacity to ask me not to shoot within 500 yards of their house "because that is the law". Since I am a gigantic a**h*** I find the need to prove a point. But do so legally. And as I read the statute, I can do it as close to their house, on my property, as I see fit. Not that I intend to do THAT exactly.

 

[Coyote Hunter]

I'd be looking for new fruit trees from the a**holes.

 

[CrackPot]

Disputes with pissy neighbors and guns. Can't see this ending well.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[HTRN]

So, instead of multi-quoting every post above...

MisterHappy,
Here comes the opinion
1) Echoing crack-pot' sentiment, please don't use the noise of firearms as a means to annoy or seek revenge on your neighbors. In this state the best outcome will be major legal fees and time in court with you LTC revoked during that time.

Now that that's out of the way, time for the next point:
2) In my opinion, without legal fact, IANAL, YMMV, etc.. I have not been able to find a definition of a "test range" in mass law, nor have the fine folks at GOAL when I inquired about the same.

It was recommended to me, that absent a definition, my best bet would be to build such a range to meet or exceed all NRA standards as found here: http://www.nrahq.org/shootingrange/sourcebook.asp
And then with that, once I'm standing in front of a judge with Atty. Reddington by my side, I might just have a defensible case. (ok, Reddington wasn't specifically recommended to me by GOAL)

So the net is, Massprudence prevails, and you have no right to disturb your neighbor's safe and warmy, even if they destroyed your property.

You do, however have the right and duty to recover the value of said property.
I would file a claim with my homeowner's insurance to cover the vandalism telling them how it happened.

For a moment, I though you were my new neighbors who just moved in, and I was just going to invite you to come shoot at my range.

 

[sweetjeep]

HTRN: Thanks again.

As to your #1) Don't worry, I have dirtbikes and farm equipment too. Secondly, I have been shooting where I shoot "up there" for a couple years. In general I have a system with the rest of the neighbors down to a science. I don't build a development, they don't give a shit. And one neighbor I call to make sure their kid isn't sleeping. Regardless, "the spot" just happens to be more than 500' down a hill from the house. Though I appreciate your sentiment and sage advice. Were I a smarter man I would take it.

As to the trees - Yes, I understand that. The major problem is a) I am out a whopping $60 for the trees. b) this is about principle and c) Back to the "I'm an a**h***, especially when I have been offended". I explained to the wife 3 days prior that she is welcome to use my property to access hers if needed, but to give me a call. So I could.. you know.. tell dudes with 30 ton trucks to not drive on my trees. Yes I could sue them or file a claim, but part of what I am dealing with here is a woman who claims that because she did not physically cut the trees herself that "she didn't cut them"/not her fault. Though contractors on her behalf are the ones who did. I am dealing with stupid here, to which reason cannot be applied. I promise I tried, I honestly wish I had video taped the conversation. Instead, I intend to utilize my own property rights in a manner in which I so see fit. Again see letter c. Plus my wife is amused to let me cause limited trouble to prove a point.

I have been shooting, riding and "farming" there for, give or take 7 years. I intend not to stop now, but I also like to make sure I am doing it "in the right".

Thanks for the link to the book (and a print of the law). Looks interesting. Incidentally, the property is a little over 1500' deep and I intend to have a loooooooong range on it some day.

 

[sweetjeep]

I'd be looking for new fruit trees from the a**holes.

See above.

 

[MisterHappy]

IIRC, oine of the subsequently-dropped charges against the Manchester=by-the-Sea guy, was discharge of a firearm within 500 feet, etc. But....he had a "range" in the attic. So. Since there is no licensing procedure (thank Ares), or state-approved definition of a "range", I'd say that the intent ( I know I'm on shaky ground, here) of the law was that if you're shooting on even a "backyard range", you presumably have an appropriate backstop, clear lines of sight, etc., and that is less "dangerous" to nearby dwellings.

Best pf luck with the new neighbors. They sound kinda clueless. Perhaps they'll freeze this winter, and remove the problem.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

"she didn't cut them"/not her fault.

You need to explain that the issue is not one of fault, but liability. She needs to understand that while often related, they are different concepts, and the absence of fault does not imply an absence of liability.

If you want to have some fun, and have the time, sue her for $60 in small claims court and subpoena the plumber as a witness. She may be too stupid to just pay and the plumber will love to take time out of his work day for unpaid court time.

 

[Iron Horse Gunn]

And to add to the fun, see if you can file a Criminal complaint under Mass General Law Chapter 266 section 117 Tresspass in orchards and gardens."
I would post a link but not sure how. But it says " enters improved land of another......
injure the trees.........fine not more that $500 or six months." My quotes not word for word from law.

 

[KiloVictorTango]

http://www.malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartIV/TitleI/Chapter266/Section117

looks like intent is necessary for conviction

 

[Iron Horse Gunn]

Thanks for posting the link.

 

[sweetjeep]

IIRC, oine of the subsequently-dropped charges against the Manchester=by-the-Sea guy, was discharge of a firearm within 500 feet, etc. But....he had a "range" in the attic. So. Since there is no licensing procedure (thank Ares), or state-approved definition of a "range", I'd say that the intent ( I know I'm on shaky ground, here) of the law was that if you're shooting on even a "backyard range", you presumably have an appropriate backstop, clear lines of sight, etc., and that is less "dangerous" to nearby dwellings.

Best pf luck with the new neighbors. They sound kinda clueless. Perhaps they'll freeze this winter, and remove the problem.

Cool! Currently it's basic/backyard crap. Perfectly safe to those around me. If you were to get shot you would have been trespassing anyway. Clueless is a kind and gentle way of putting things. Entitled and arrogant is another way. I was replanting trees yesterday and she came over to "discuss" why I was putting a tree where I was putting it.. During the conversation she mentioned that they "had" to come over my land to get to their well, she couldn't go over her side of the backyard because there was a tree in the way. It's a peach tree that has fallen over but not yet died.

I wish I was making this shit up.

- - - Updated - - -

And to add to the fun, see if you can file a Criminal complaint under Mass General Law Chapter 266 section 117 Tresspass in orchards and gardens."
I would post a link but not sure how. But it says " enters improved land of another......
injure the trees.........fine not more that $500 or six months." My quotes not word for word from law.

heh heh
After the husband incorrectly quoted law to me, perhaps I'll keep this in my back pocket.

 

[MisterHappy]

It may be "perfectly safe" and all that, but if they're as dumb as you make out, anything that you do, that they don't like (such as planting trees?) they're likely to go full retard.

Before you pull the trigger, I'd make sure that there are no "hidden" town ordinances about firearms that can be used against you.

IANAL, and all that.

I say this, because if they're silly enough to think that a fallen tree on their property is a reason to trespass on yours, looking for a lost cat in front of your target backstop seems like a small step for them.....

 

[Gillham]

This is why people build fences..

I say you make a full blown hickok45 range in your back yard. Why? because you can.

 

[sweetjeep]

This is why people build fences..

I say you make a full blown hickok45 range in your back yard. Why? because you can.

A fence may be coming.. my wife has already suggested it may be in the future. We'll see what happens.

As to the range, that's.. s..l..o..w..l..y in the works. Including a multi hundred yard range. Don't pretend I can shoot more than 200 and hit anything, but that doesn't mean I can't try!

 

[MisterHappy]

Start at 50, and work your way out. Make sure to put your garden between the firing line, and the backstop.

Post a sign: All Trespassing Cervids Will Be Shot. And Eaten.

You're GTG.

 

[sweetjeep]

Start at 50, and work your way out. Make sure to put your garden between the firing line, and the backstop.

Post a sign: All Trespassing Cervids Will Be Shot. And Eaten.

You're GTG.

The place is a legal farm. So the story along your lines goes like this.. There is a moto-x track in CT. Nicknamed "the farm". Back in the before time when they couldn't get a permit to be a track they skirted the towns rules by being a farm. What did they farm you ask? Worms. How do you farm for worms? Exactly the trick. Point is they were in business for several years as a worm farm before the town realized that the track was perfectly harmless and granted them proper permits.

No point to that story other than it is funny and to suggest there is always an unseen way around a problem.

 

[Coyote33]

Well, Sudbury folks want a town bylaw on this subject:

!!! ACTION ALERT ~~ ANTI 2A LEGISLATION ~~ ACTION NEEDED !!!!