Massachusetts Bill HD.4420 "An act to modernize gun Laws"

[drgrant]

If we think the antis have an easy time of it now, just wait until there's nobody pushing back at all.


Respectfully, hard disagree with this take. Gun ownership here has risen 20% in the last few years alone. Yes, it's true that less than 10% of MA residents have gun licenses but that number is up.

Put another way, 10% might seem like a small number, but if 529,000 people showed up at the state house demanding they put a stop to this bullshit, it's hard to see how that could be ignored.

They won’t though, because easily 80% of them are RINOs or moonbat-lites themselves. "Cuz they own guns" is not a reliable indicator of care. If it was, the "2a debate" would be dead nationally a long ass time ago..... and you would have protesters flooding every anti-gun event basically chasing them out of there.... I've often said until the general public considers them to be the same as L3 diddlers we're always going to be fighting those pricks.

 

[Shark_Cage]

So if its a 'Ban' does it say that you can keep what you have or are they saying that you have to turn in prohibited firearms? I haven't read the bill yet, I've just been reading this thread.

There’s a section regarding the AG setting up a turn in program. All post 94 will be illegal once Maura signs into law.

 

[Garys]

Neither. Completely not understanding how the court system works. Injunctions will come from the lower courts, district or circuit.

What MIGHT happen is what happened with Caetano v. MA. The court issues an order without hearing the case and orders MA to implement a plan to permit stun guns consistent with Heller (I think it was Heller).

If I understand the process, let’s say the SC stops sitting on their hands and rules favorably on the cases they have already granted certioari. They write a decision that is clear and concise on unconstitutional firearms and mag bans, including language on other issues such as sensitive places. Then when dipshit pols in states like ours pass laws that violate the rulings, we now have standing to ask for an immediate injunction from SCOTUS and give the finger to Beacon Hill.

Best case?
Or pipe dream……..

 

[Garys]

Keep your eyes open. There will likely be a hearing on this at some point. The problem is that we don't know when and it can even change at the last minute.
It's been filed very late in the season, which might be either to ram it through or send it to a study committee to die.

In 2013 it looked like we were totally screwed, yet by the time the bill hit the Governor's desk it had been watered down.

Of course this being an off year for elections, the legislature could pass it and send it to the Governor confident that the outrage of gun owners will die down and most will meekly turn in everything that they are required to.

 

[Garys]

You should follow what's happening in other parts of the country where the federal courts are issuing injunctions against anti 2A bills. While the 1CA is now the most liberal in the country, I'm not sure that federal judges are going to risk being overturned at SCOTUS to keep MA politicians happy.

Yeah, Bruen really saved us! I knew Massachusetts legislators would take it seriously... NOT!!!!!!

 

[DarthRevan]

personally.. I see this ending in MA one of 2 ways... SCOTUS ruling, or tyrant politicians start leaving office (either voted out or in body bags). This state is a lost cause, IMHO. Too many extremist moonbats..

Thanks I needed that....
People are far to comfortable to think about life in jail for gun rights.

 

[DarthRevan]

Politicians in MA voted out or in body bags will never happen

And by the time they start attempting that path, we will have been so f***ed for so long already that you'd never get back to a sense of "normalcy" ever again.

 

[MaroonedinMA]

Wonder how much of this will make it into the final version.

 

[pastera]

So the Bruen decision means nothing???

That supreme court ruling seems to be making things worse rather than better.

Yes the Bruen decision means something.
The anti'sare attempting to keep our time and money tied up so that we can't push against the Hughes ammendment and even the NFA
They are hoping to have a Communist on office when Alito and Thomas die/retire. That way they can reverse Bruen before SCOTUS strengthens it too much for them to reverse.

 

[240Geezer]

Well, so far I am not impressed. All that keeps happening is more and more stupid shit passed. They know it will stick for years, until it is challenged and in this state the courts will agree with the unconstitutional laws.

Bingo. They can do whatever they want in a heartbeat and it takes years for the courts to undo it. Meanwhile they will do something else. On and on.
Face it the system DOES NOT WORK.

 

[pastera]

Lol this blows huh?
Let them pass it, and get competent lawyers to shred it in court. There’s no way after Bruen that this would stand strict scrutiny.

There is no scrutiny, strict or otherwise.
Scrutiny is interest balancing and SCOTUS forbade it by stating the balancing was done in the enactment of the 2nd itself.
The only question is the text of the 2nd which this bill infringes on its face and then if there is a long lasting, wide spread, historical tradition of restrictions analogous to the bill.

 

[pastera]

We are at a point where politicians don't care and ignore SCOTUS rulings.

They care about SCOTUS
They don't care about us since they control the legal monopoly on violence and will gleefully use it against those they can turn public opinion against.

 

[CWulf]

There’s a section regarding the AG setting up a turn in program. All post 94 will be illegal once Maura signs into law.

Yup,
Line 471 Section 121C. Colonel of state police; statewide firearm surrender program
472 Notwithstanding any general or special law, rule or regulation to the contrary, the colonel
473 of state police, in conjunction with the secretary of the executive office of public safety, shall
474 promulgate rules and regulations implementing a statewide firearm surrender program.

So the expectation is that firearms that are worth thousands of dollars will be turned in willingly with no compensation?

 

[EMTDAD]

Thanks I needed that....
People are far to comfortable to think about life in jail for gun rights.

I never said it WOULD happen. Just that there's only two ways to get our rights back. The voting booth, or violence.

 

[pastera]

If I understand the process, let’s say the SC stops sitting on their hands and rules favorably on the cases they have already granted certioari. They write a decision that is clear and concise on unconstitutional firearms and mag bans, including language on other issues such as sensitive places. Then when dipshit pols in states like ours pass laws that violate the rulings, we now have standing to ask for an immediate injunction from SCOTUS and give the finger to Beacon Hill.

Best case?
Or pipe dream……..

Yes - one of these revenge bills will be granted cert and the wrath of the court may just land on the GCA and parts of the NFA (there is no appetite to allow full auto to be widely available)

 

[Enslem]

The criminals will not be happy!

 

[240Geezer]

From the definitions:
"261 “Feeding device”, any magazine, belt, strip, drum or similar device that holds
262 ammunition for a firearm, whether fixed or detachable from a firearm."

So clips are ok then.

 

[240Geezer]

(there is no appetite to allow full auto to be widely available to law abiding citizens.

FIFY

 

[pastera]

Neither. Completely not understanding how the court system works. Injunctions will come from the lower courts, district or circuit.

What MIGHT happen is what happened with Caetano v. MA. The court issues an order without hearing the case and orders MA to implement a plan to permit stun guns consistent with Heller (I think it was Heller).

There are multiple cases already granted cert that were disposed by GVR after Bruen.
Those cases can be presented for rehearing if the lower courts don't rule within the limits of Bruen

 

[Chevy 2 65]

Bingo. They can do whatever they want in a heartbeat and it takes years for the courts to undo it. Meanwhile they will do something else. On and on.
Face it the system DOES NOT WORK.

Not if it takes 25-30 years. Yet, a f***ing football case is heard within weeks and settled.

 

[Nightshift]

There are multiple cases already granted cert that were disposed by GVR after Bruen.
Those cases can be presented for rehearing if the lower courts don't rule within the limits of Bruen

Those are the cases i want SCOTUS to decide. I want the lower courts to piss off the SC so that it gets decided for all, not just one district. If the lower court does it according to Bruen, we have to go through our own courts. Time to settle it!

 

[LT5]

You want me to get naked and start the revolution?

Oh no.
Once was enough thank you.

 

[pastera]

Oh no.
Once was enough thank you.

Does once refer to naked or revolution?

 

[pastera]

Those are the cases i want SCOTUS to decide. I want the lower courts to piss off the SC so that it gets decided for all, not just one district. If the lower court does it according to Bruen, we have to go through our own courts. Time to settle it!

Understand but that's not how it works.
SCOTUS wants them to weasel so they can box them in

 

[jkelly1229]

Does once refer to naked or revolution?

Little column a little column b

 

[btnh6668]

So what you are saying is to buy that grey area item now?

 

[Nightshift]

Understand but that's not how it works.

Trying……

SCOTUS wants them to weasel so they can box them in

Ok. SCOTUS granted certiorari to some cases. Most notably Cali’s AWB and Mag ban. They remanded them back to the lower courts to re-rule using Bruen.

Option 1
They rule correctly and those cases are settled in that district and the best we can hope for is using the decision for our own lawsuit(s).

Option 2
The rule incorrectly and it gets appealed to SC who already said they’d hear the case and it get settled (hopefully correctly) and it becomes the law of the land. If any state attempts to pass any laws violation the rulings, it gets slapped down.

Yes?

 

[LT5]

Does once refer to naked or revolution?

Oh youuuuuuuuu knooooooooowwww

 

[pastera]

Trying……


Ok. SCOTUS granted certiorari to some cases. Most notably Cali’s AWB and Mag ban. They remanded them back to the lower courts to re-rule using Bruen.

Option 1
They rule correctly and those cases are settled in that district and the best we can hope for is using the decision for our own lawsuit(s).

Option 2
The rule incorrectly and it gets appealed to SC who already said they’d hear the case and it get settled (hopefully correctly) and it becomes the law of the land. If any state attempts to pass any laws violation the rulings, it gets slapped down.

Yes?

That's about it.
SCOTUS already told the lower court that they were wrong.
That leans heavily on other circuits to not make the same mistake.
The rogue circuits will continue to try to thread the needle but bruen left very little wiggle room.

 

[PappyM3]

I started the conversation with the wife about moving to ME or NH if this is signed into law. Gotta start warming her up to the idea.