Manville 8/16 Out of your comfort zone

[10mmdave]

Mike,
Noid': I've shot a little revolver. Dave P. offered to let me shoot a spare 610. After the Nats let's give it a go.

I have 3 610's that shoot WWB 40's to major, also have
a 25-2 for you 45 ACP folks to lend out.
(Oh, and your reloads for your 40 guns would be fine too)
Heck I even have a couple 686's if somebody wants to try
Revo minor with 38 spcls. (hint hint to the gaminggodess )
All will be available after the Nats as I plan to try some
other gun platforms after that myself.
Biggest issue will be gear to hold everything, I could set up
a belt that could be switched between shooters
(my belt size fit's around most folks )
Get you all on one squad and swich off between runs ?!

Let me know, sounds like some fun !!

 

[Lugnut]

I have 3 610's that shoot WWB 40's to major, also have
a 25-2 for you 45 ACP folks to lend out.
(Oh, and your reloads for your 40 guns would be fine too)
Heck I even have a couple 686's if somebody wants to try
Revo minor with 38 spcls. (hint hint to the gaminggodess )
All will be available after the Nats as I plan to try some
other gun platforms after that myself.
Biggest issue will be gear to hold everything, I could set up
a belt that could be switched between shooters
(my belt size fit's around most folks )
Get you all on one squad and swich off between runs ?!

Let me know, sounds like some fun !!

Dave- what gear do you use for the 686? I can't find any decent speed loader pouches! the BladeTech holster is "ok"... I hate the adjustable belt strip of plastic crap!

 

[PMD]

I have 3 610's that shoot WWB 40's to major, also have
a 25-2 for you 45 ACP folks to lend out.
(Oh, and your reloads for your 40 guns would be fine too)
Heck I even have a couple 686's if somebody wants to try
Revo minor with 38 spcls. (hint hint to the gaminggodess )
All will be available after the Nats as I plan to try some
other gun platforms after that myself.
Biggest issue will be gear to hold everything, I could set up
a belt that could be switched between shooters
(my belt size fit's around most folks )
Get you all on one squad and swich off between runs ?!

Let me know, sounds like some fun !!

Dave,
If you find a shooter with a smaller waste line that needs to borrow a holster just let me know..

 

[noidlight]

I'm in. I think after the Nats, all the open shooters should shoot revolver in a match. Mike, no "open" revolver.

 

[Supermoto]

I'm in. I think after the Nats, all the open shooters should shoot revolver in a match. Mike, no "open" revolver.

I'm in. I'll shoot the 627, but reload at 6

 

[noidlight]

That thing is tough to reload. Fun to shoot, though.

 

[9X21]

Diana, How about making them so we can see them. Not everyone does Facebook.

Here are a couple of good channels:

http://www.youtube.com/gamingoddess

http://www.youtube.com/user/sandwrevolver

Go ahead & post mine here Diana, I don't mind.........

Revolvers eh?
I think I have a couple of the around here somewhere....
(Diana, don't worry, I have a Bedell Hi cap revolver for you to use!)

 

[38supermatt]

I'm in. I think after the Nats, all the open shooters should shoot revolver in a match. Mike, no "open" revolver.

the 4th sunday of the month at manville has been cowboy action shooting go have a good time!

but seriously, I think the time saved in cleaning all the brass up off the range easy after the match would be offset by how long it would take us dot people to shoot the stages

 

[38supermatt]

this is post number 69
hehehehehehehehe

 

[noidlight]

You're a goof...HAA HAA.

 

[gamingoddess]

Here are a couple of good channels:

http://www.youtube.com/gamingoddess

http://www.youtube.com/user/sandwrevolver

Go ahead & post mine here Diana, I don't mind.........

Revolvers eh?
I think I have a couple of the around here somewhere....
(Diana, don't worry, I have a Bedell Hi cap revolver for you to use!)

Hey John, I decided to make another YouTube account for anyone that I film at matches. I'll upload your vid tonight and will put the link here for you guys. I've decided that it's not worth uploading onto Facebook anymore. Too much a pain in the butt when it's a large file.

As for the revolver...for me shooting those wheel guns is a big stretch..LOL, maybe I should start shooting single stack or something after Nationals and torture myself like you did Sunday!

 

[gamingoddess]

Here's John's SS YouTube Video

 

[38supermatt]

did john shoot the dissapearing bonus target on the ground after it had finished being activated and was no longer visible?
and did he shoot more than targets 1 2 3 while still with a foot in box A on stage 2? wow, i should fix the scores and give him procedurals

 

[9X21]

Mano-a-mano

did john shoot the dissapearing bonus target on the ground after it had finished being activated and was no longer visible?
and did he shoot more than targets 1 2 3 while still with a foot in box A on stage 2? wow, i should fix the scores and give him procedurals

That's it,
You & Me
revolvers after nationals!
Mano-a-mano @ Manville
(O faster than Palm pilot scorer & loose primer one....)

"Out of box", opposite of
"In the box": both feet in, or one in the box & other in air, not touching ground outside of box...........
PS:
RO approved on walk through.........

Stage 4, study harder, o' learned lawyer buddy,
At the finish, you can plainly see on a quality computer upload,
(No dial up. cheapskate), after missing small steel a couple of times......
I am shooting the static, far left, for no apparent reason, other than frustration!


Grown man/boy smiley face time!

Peace out

Major or Minor REVOLVER?
You can pick, I have one of each!

 

[38supermatt]

"One foot out, not in box, stage 2, shots number 7&8"

I know you know better than that. If one foot is in the box, you're not out of it yet either. You've shot enough majors to know better. This isn't like the old videos you see from the 80s where one foot in a box counted, even if you were using equipment from back then.

"(if entering box both feet in or one in & other in air, "
- but your other foot wasn't in the air. See, you do know better.

"PS: RO approved on walk through........."

If i ask the RO if i can kick you in the nuts and he says fine, can i kick you in the nuts? No, I can't, cuz I know better than to even ask.

"Stage 4, study harder, o' learned lawyer buddy, At the finish, you can plainly see on a quality computer upload, (No dial up cheapskate),"

are you kidding me? Do you have any idea how long that would have taken to watch on dialup? Yes, you do, three times as long as it would have taken to watch Mike. And for the record, dialup costs more than broadband, only the rich can afford dialup, because we have to pay for the high speed charges, and then 20 something for AOL, plus the cost of the extra phone line, as a backup, incase the high speed goes down. It's sort of like having to bring 3 bedell guns built in 9x21 to each match, but way way way cheaper.

"You should have not had any points on bonus target, as I did not have bullets enough for the illegal stage, (more than 8 shots from one position! after missing small steel a couple of times......"

I used your score sheet to write directions on for somewhere I had to go monday. cuz cheapskate doesnt have a GPS system either, so I wasn't going out to the car to get your scoresheet to check if you shot the bonus while it was lying down. Thanks for knowing better to not do that. And please explain to Mike how his stage was illegal so he knows better next time. I can't figure out where more than 8 shots from one position were required. As my memory says two shots were required on the steel from a box, a paper near the steel could be shot from anywhere, 4 shots were required on two targets below a table, 4 shots were required on steel anywhere behind the yellow tape, and the paper down the back could be engaged anywhere in that free fire zone, before the yellow tape, after the yellow tape, on the way to the targets, or right up close to them like you got. If you're defining "one position" as the entire left side of that bay, then yeah, I guess every free fire zone would be one position, regardless of size. Again, you know better.

in the words of Peter Griffin, COME ON!
I would insert a family guy smiley here, but I dont think we have any.

 

[9X21]

So Matt?

Which Revolver do you want to shoot?....................
major or minor?

 

[9X21]

CHAPTER 1: Course Design

" And please explain to Mike how his stage was illegal so he knows better next time. I can't figure out where more than 8 shots from one position were required.

As we say like to in IDPA and USPSA,
Read the f#@%ing rulebook.

1.2.1.3 “Long Courses” in Level III or higher matches must not require
more than 32 rounds to complete. Course design and construction
must not require more than 8 scoring hits from any single
location or view, nor allow a competitor to shoot all targets in
the course of fire from any single location or view.

While not a Level III match, principles of good course design should prevail,
The last seven paper targets could & were had from one view...............

 

[9X21]

Matt,
You are going to use new brass for the Nationals aren't you?

 

[IPSC_DRL]

As we say like to in IDPA and USPSA,
Read the f#@%ing rulebook.

1.2.1.3 “Long Courses” (snip)

Sigh.......... John, are you really going to argue course design rules with a club that uses caution tape on the ground to define shooting areas???

I understand and accept the expediency, due to the lack of materials and personnel, to not always construct the courses to strictly adhere to the rule book.

Just sayin'.

 

[Supermoto]

As we say like to in IDPA and USPSA,
Read the f#@%ing rulebook.

1.2.1.3 “Long Courses” in Level III or higher matches must not require
more than 32 rounds to complete. Course design and construction
must not require more than 8 scoring hits from any single
location or view, nor allow a competitor to shoot all targets in
the course of fire from any single location or view.

While not a Level III match, principles of good course design should prevail,
The last seven paper targets could & were had from one view...............

If you could take all 14 targets from one location then it would be illegal. But shooting the last 7 in one area was by choice and not required.

Stage 2 you were not completely outside the box. just like if you step over a fault line, even though your other foot is in the FFZ, you are still getting a procedural

 

[9X21]

Sigh.......... John, are you really going to argue course design rules with a club that uses caution tape on the ground to define shooting areas???

I understand and accept the expediency, due to the lack of materials and personnel, to not always construct the courses to strictly adhere to the rule book.

Just sayin'.

You right of course,
But Matt always starts shit, somebody has to give some back.........

 

[9X21]

If you could take all 14 targets from one location then it would be illegal. But shooting the last 7 in one area was by choice and not required.

And how did you shoot it?

 

[Supermoto]

steel paper steel from the box
moved forward 2 paper under the table
moved to the yellow tape,
shot the steel right to left then the far left static then the flopper. ran up to the remaining paper, shot them while moving right to left

 

[9X21]

Stage 2 you were not completely outside the box. just like if you step over a fault line, even though your other foot is in the FFZ, you are still getting a procedural

Quote a rule?

Besides, as stated, RO walk through, asked & answered......

 

[Supermoto]

Quote a rule?

Besides, as stated, RO walk through, asked & answered......

10.2.1
A shooting box is nothing more than a fault line.

I'd would have given you 2 procedurals, under 10.2.2

 

[9X21]

10.2.1
A shooting box is nothing more than a fault line.

I'd would have given you 2 procedurals, under 10.2.2

After RO demonstrated (and shot it that way) as legal during the walk through, I think not.

 

[Supermoto]

After RO demonstrated (and shot it that way) as legal during the walk through, I think not.

The RO was wrong. I'm not faulting you for shooting that way, game the stage, take any small advantage you can.

 

[9X21]

The RO was wrong. I'm not faulting you for shooting that way, game the stage, take any small advantage you can.

The interpretation of rules surrounding shooting boxes has been a problematic for years & really needs to be clarified in the Rulebook. If you play the scenario backwards, was I in the box firing shots 7&8?
if not then the assumption is I was out of the box and no fault.

While a box is just a bunch of fault lines, I think it need to be more specific in the book.

Anyway, it is & was a mute point because during the walkthrough, It was demonstrated as acceptable.
Crying about it now is a waste of time, (but fun!)


No one likes to be accused of cheating, least of all me.
Matt has done so here.
My advice to you guys is better WSB's, rather than pissing contests after the match................

So revo's next month?

 

[38supermatt]

As we say like to in IDPA and USPSA, Read the f#@%ing rulebook. 1.2.1.3 “Long Courses” in Level III or higher matches must not require more than 32 rounds to complete. Course design and construction must not require more than 8 scoring hits from any single location or view, nor allow a competitor to shoot all targets in the course of fire from any single location or view.
While not a Level III match, principles of good course design should prevail, The last seven paper targets could & were had from one view...............

I can't believe i'm coming back here while at work, but really, you're telling me to read the F'in rule book when you're quoting a rule that isn't applicable and acknowledging it isn't, and writing about "principles of good course design"?

I got your principles right heeeeeeereee

1.1.5.1 Level I matches may use shooting boxes and specify where or when specific target arrays may be engaged, and may specify mandatory reloads in short and medium courses only (not in a long course).

So, the course complied.

And as for you Mike, what's your beef with the caution tape?

You weren't even there, and no one was complaining about it. It's pretty open and obvious where you were to shoot the steel from, behind this bright yellow tape stretched about waist high.

2.2.3 Barriers – Must be constructed in the following manner:
2.2.3.1 They must be high enough and strong enough to serve the intended purpose.

The yellow tape served it's intended purpose.

I really can't believe you even write this:
"Sigh.......... John, are you really going to argue course design rules with a club that uses caution tape on the ground to define shooting areas???"

Yes we have done so in the past, big deal, we suck. So sorry to suck so much. I hope you'll forgive us and understand that our admission is the first step on our road to recovery. Maybe I should insert a SIGH here.

But since you want to disparage our ability to understand the rulebook. I'm going to go there.

You know what's always bothered me?
Like for years, and I've never said a thing about it.
Your whining to John Amidon at the Aware match that you saw someone in your division shoot a stage that in your view had the potential to be an unsafe way, because someone could potentially hit a steel frame of a target stand if they weren't careful, I've always wondered if you brought it up primarily because the competitor did it at least 5 seconds faster than everyone that way. So after the match was finished, and this person had everything off and put away, John has to call that person over and make him reshoot it, and say he can't shoot it the way he shot it before, because of concerns that it had the potential to be unsafe because of the use of a metal target stand in the area. Ignore the already signed and submitted scoresheets, and that the way I shot the stage wasn't at all unsafe, it was just so much faster. Ignore that I could have broken some safety rule on the reshoot and gotten Dq'd, or picked up a miss or a noshoot on a stage I shot fairly and cleanly. Ignore that I didnt blame the match staff for not using a wooden target stand there. Ignore that no one else even tried to shoot the stage that way prior to, or after, my shooting it that way. Ignore that the match staff could have just replaced the target stand with a wooden one for the last half day of shooting the next day without having modified the course. Ignore all that. I had enough sportsmanship, integrity and respect for the match staff not to whine about having to reshoot it and suffer the loss of match points and that stage win.

Thats all this comes down to. I dont care if John had his foot in the box or not, so I wanted to bust his balls for it because he knows better, and I consider John a friend. So what? I don't compete against John, I compete against myself, and shoot what is presented.

and John- as for your last post stating I called you a cheater, I disagree, I think doing something wrong and cheating are two different things. For example- using illegal equipment like a magazine that is too large would be cheating. I dont think you were cheating, and dont consider you a cheater. I apologize to you if this came off that way.

 

[9X21]

I can't believe i'm coming back here ...
. I dont care if John had his foot in the box or not, so I wanted to bust his balls for it because he knows better, and I consider John a friend. So what? I don't compete against John, I compete against myself, and shoot what is presented.

and John- as for your last post stating I called you a cheater, I disagree, I think doing something wrong and cheating are two different things. For example- using illegal equipment like a magazine that is too large would be cheating. I dont think you were cheating, and dont consider you a cheater. I apologize to you if this came off that way.

No problem Matt,
It is lot's fun, besides I think we raise interest in the sport!
How bad can that be?
Anyway, Come on,
Revo's after Nationals, It will be FUN!

Peter: "Oh no. I gotta fart, but I don't know which way to lean."