Quiet
Banned
Well ya, then you could hang around with people who agree with all of your positions all the time. Would certainly make life more blissful for you.
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Man kills self at Dicks Sporting Goods
- Thread starter FrugalFannie
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Well ya, then you could hang around with people who agree with all of your positions all the time. Would certainly make life more blissful for you.
Both of you need to get of your moral supremacy pedestals.
As per the other thread, you two have a very strange view of what humanity and civilization really are. Man is a social creature by necessity and has evolved to have a built-in distaste for hurting his fellow man. Not all have this - clearly there are "anti-social" people who by nature or nurture are "missing" the hardware or software that says "don't hurt other people," but most people will have a powerful visceral reaction to experiencing death or dismemberment of another human being in person. Why do you think so many people faint when they see blood or guts? Been in an OR? or ER? If not, it's an eye opener to be "behind the curtain" both for your own reaction and that of your fellow man.
Frankly, most people will have a similar reaction seeing the same of an animal when they are young (kid's first hunt is often a deeply emotional experience).
For all of our faults as an animal, _most_ of us come out wired with a pretty strong "shall not kill" subroutine, particularly and especially WRT other humans.
This is not by accident. We are wired not to like to see blood or parts blown off or dead because that's worked best to get us to evolve to this point. Clearly we are more than the sum or our wiring and that wiring doesn't always get soldered up right, so we can learn to be anti-social or we can just come out of the oven "wrong," but _most_ people don't and that's why civilization works.
Not because of government or religion. These are just institutions we have come up with to align with our innate sense of "fair" and "just" that you can literally observe in lower primates.
Sadly, I think many anti's have the same dim view of humanity that you do that assumes the only reason we don't do violent things to each other is fear of some paternal/maternal/god power figure punishing us. So, you write all sorts of laws that criminals and the anti-social ignore.
I am not advocating "lawless" anarchy, but rather an understanding of what laws "work" and which don't and that means punishing intentionally or grossly negligent harm brought to fellow man and punishing enough that once you are done serving your time, you are either dead or presumed to be free again in all regards.
All these inscrutable laws you propose are cosmetic salves to people who don't or won't accept the reality of existence which is that if someone decides to hurt you this day, they can, unless you stop them. The reason that, more often than not, they don't is because you've been hanging around basically good people.
Jason Flare
NES Member
You are one sick individual if you think people on this forum wish you harm.
PrimusTactical
Banned
Well put but I have to disagree... There are plenty of other countries that have little to no laws and how do they end up? I'm pretty sure they are humans just like us. All the awful atrocities that have been done by man that guys quote on here. I do see what your saying and agree with the idea, the concept, but I think it's a mix of the two.
No one on here has EVER wanted to slap someone? Or worse? No one here as ever wanted to do ANYTHING wrong ever in their life? Might be my "high pedastal" or w/e it is, but I've certainly wanted to hurt plenty of people but didn't because I'd get screwed.
Quiet
Banned
Ya know, enough with the personal attacks. I don't think that my opinions are any better than any one else's opinions, nor do I think I'm better than anyone else nor do I claim to be more right with god or the universe nor do I claim to know all the answers nor am I set in my beliefs.
Someone said that everyone on the forum ought to agree to agree on everything, in the middle of a discussion; someone (IDK who) asked for the thread to be closed. You gave me negative rep for having a discussion where we have differing opinions and you think that *I'm* claiming the moral high ground?
PrimusTactical
Banned
Sir, I don't know if thats sarcasm or not.. please ( I sincerely mean this) take a look at the past threads I've been in. I know it sucks to look through pages, but I have no reason to lie. Ever hear that murder boner term still being quoted? Came about because I called someone out for having one, and someone stepped in to defend them and said that. As I recall (I KNOW THIS) someone even said "speak for yourself" when they said no one has murder boners. I'm not sick , I pay attention especially in hostile territory.
Quiet
Banned
IDK about him, but someone called me a "doosh pickle" while intending to give me negative rep. Is that a threat? LOL
Technically he told me to stop being a doosh pickle, but I extrapolated.
(What's a doosh pickle?)
ChevyGuy91
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Bro, you took that murder boner thing so far out of context I think you might not speak English, or at least internet.
PrimusTactical
Banned
Sorry internet wasn't offered at my College or High School.. damn public education. It's ok I get it, guys on here pretend they didn't hear or see the crazy s*** that was being said. It's ok, I don't hold it against anyone that there are a few mixed in here that wish harm. I'm not beating that dead horse because I'm secure in the fact that in about 5 min I could secure about 5-10 posts that were blatanlty hostile and or violent. You know the ones so I won't even repeat them.
Interesting that you ask, because there is no correlation (at best, at worst there is the opposite correlation, more laws = more violence and murder) between the number and nature of laws and reduction in crime or murder. Plenty of examples of countries with strict laws still have murder. Plenty of examples of countries with lax laws that have low murder and violence rates.
Actually, all nations are very much NOT the same in their basic makeup. Most are far more homogeneous than the US. There is also the matter of geography, density, natural resources, wealth, religion, etc...
All of these things have much more impact than laws. In fact, laws and legal systems are generally antagonistic to peace and safety where there is an impact for their oppression and the tension that creates.
Part of becoming an adult and working through adolescence is understanding how to handle such thoughts. Most people do just fine with this and I would wager have many such thoughts in any relatively short span of time, but don't act on them or have some other outlet of anger and stress.PrimusTactial said:
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ChevyGuy91
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It's the internet, don't take it so srsly (seriously).
PrimusTactical
Banned
I like this thought and will research it more. I just meant people in general should be less crime EVERYWHERE if it was a genetic make up thing that makes us inherintly good. Isn't that a Sociological Theory? It sounds familiar from a college class. If you can think of it let me know so I can read up on it. I mean lawless places like the Congo, or some other African Nations that are still fighting to establish order. But thank you for the opinion.
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Sorry, wishing death is wishing death. Ink, internet, verbal, sign language, non verbal, pcitures, friggin colage. Your right some of the guys may have been jumping on the band wagon, but I'm certain some guys weren't and meant every word. They'll be on tomorrow to respond to this and affirm this thought.
Look at crime rates dispassionately for a moment:
Murder rates of 4.2 per 100,000 in the US (List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
We are bombarded by a message of violence on TV that aggregates all the horrors of 300+ million people in the US and 7B on the planet, but that level of violence simply is not reflected in the data.
As I mentioned in the other thread Michael Moore got it right (much as I hate to admit it) in Bowling for Columbine when he pointed out that even as violence fell, the reported instances of it on TV went up.
Honestly, I think we as humans have not yet evolved to contextualize the amount of information we now receive from around the world. We don't do well at keep the goings-on of 7B people in perspective for what that means is really happening to "us" (here, now).
4.2 murders per 100,000 means 99,995.8 people didn't get murdered... Cold as that may be, it is important to understand.
Moreover the reality of crime is that it is HIGHLY concentrated in small geographic areas. It is not equally distributed.
I will be the first to tell you there is no "safe" place having experienced violent crime in a "safe" neighborhood, but the data says that your likelyhood of encountering violence is highly correlated to your proximity to very specific and small areas around the country.
Which brings me back to "most people are basically good" and if they weren't society would fall apart.
I have a feeling no one is reading Cekim's posts. That's pretty ignorant for you both. You don't have to agree 100% with him (because we know you're both trolls), but at least try and see how much you both sound like a**h***s.
ChevyGuy91
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I'm not going to change your mind, I'm not really going to try, but I have read the threads you are talking about, and I am quite sure you are taking the posts about shooting at people that would infringe on someone's rights out of context. This is what that murder boner post was actually try to get across to you in a joking internet manner. Maybe take an other swing at reading that one.
Respectfully, don't taze me bro.
Quiet
Banned
People are good when they are dispersed.
And we have so many violent (and other) offenders in prison that they aren't out killing people.
And we're older.
I don't know that one can very easily tease out the effect of laws (which laws? All laws? Gun laws? Penalties for laws?) on the murder rate. Which might go to your point that laws do no good, but then again it might not.
Have you actually seen a scholarly analysis of this, or is this a theory you've developed?
flintoid
Banned
This is the gayest shit I have seen in a long time. And I just left a gay bar 3 hours ago.
Someone arrest me because I have used the internet in improper ways. Someone needs to label me as insane and take my rights away. How that label is created matters not as long as PrimusGayest and Quiet Boner feel safer in their beds tonight.
****ing kill me please.
Someone arrest me because I have used the internet in improper ways. Someone needs to label me as insane and take my rights away. How that label is created matters not as long as PrimusGayest and Quiet Boner feel safer in their beds tonight.
****ing kill me please.
GunGrey
Banned
you have no idea
I am basing my view on many things including the Harvard and CDC (actually a study of studies) studies on gun violence specifically, but others generally read over the years.
I am also just basing this on what you see all around you. Even in dense cities, masses of people walking amongst eachother not even considering doing harm to one another every day.
The streets of you NY, concert/sports venues with 20,50,100K people all lumped in one place. Theme parks, movie theaters, etc...
I've personally run into the scum of the earth (though I am sure there is worse scum than I encountered), so know it's out there, but I think people are missing the "non-scum" all around them because they have no reason to pause and recognize all the 100's of millions of people around them who mean them no harm.
The relative civility of war is another fine demonstration of this. The idea that you could even have "rules of war" however frequently that they are violated, the preponderance of occurrences where they are not speaks volumes of what humanity is. Many rituals and courtesies of war (collecting dead from the killing fields for example in WWI) are further demonstration of this.
We notice the bad because it stands out, but we discount the good all around us.
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Quiet. If you're so butthurt with name-calling, go onto another forum like Planned parenthood or something. Seriously. You can't troll us and not expect knee-jerking based on your stupidity.
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Quiet
Banned
Nobody is trolling. Some of us are having a discussion where there is some disagreement. You're not knee-jerking with the name calling, you're doing it purposefully.
Try to be more respectful, would ya? I know you can do it. I have faith in your humanity.
Dick's stopped selling phazed plasma rifle with 40 Watt ranges I'm pretty sure Fienstein put those on her AWB
Quiet
Banned
Thank you. I sincerely appreciate it.Ok dad.![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
Quiet
Banned
Yes there is lots of good in the world, and the media is distorting the risks we face. I have had this discussion with my brother several times. He is convinced that life is more dangerous now than it has been, and I show him the data showing that the opposite is true.
But we're not talking about the good, are we? We're worried about the bad.
My postings today, besides showing that there is no such thing as an absolute right, were about personal responsibility of gun owners to keep their weapons secure from both children and the casual/opportunistic thief. I asked if in return for full constitutional carry if people would be willing to have strict liability laws for safe storage of firearms not in use. (and BTW, in use includes keeping them by you for self defense.) That would be HUGE progress compared to where most of the country is. The response to that was frankly very surprising to me.
A lot of the posters here have, shall we say, a fervent belief in the infallibility of their positions and seem to think that some magical slogan or action will cause a Diane Feinstein and her ilk to have epiphanies and restore their RKBA. Either that or they're just here to plan their "go time". They don't seem to want to discuss anything that would improve the situation incrementally... or to try and educate (with some exceptions such as what you're doing, cekim). And I think that approach will lead to continued failure, just as it has over the last 20 years.
But I guess I picked the wrong forum to try to start a discussion. And for that, I am sorry that I've wasted everyone's time.
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