Just read the other thread on bow season extension in MA. If I use a muzzleloader, are 100% copper bullets prohibited? Sounds like they have to be lead rounds. Actually, sounds like copper jacketed rounds might be questionable as well.
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MA Muzzleloader Deer
- Thread starter PilotRPI
- Start date
This^
Never read that in the mass hunting regs.
As far as I know "Modern" muzzle loaders are ok in mass in all forms......powder pellets......saboted projos......scopes and red dot optics....copper jacketed hollow points etc....
Provide a link to where your reading this and we will take a look. I'm not sure where your reading that but I've been hunting muzzle loader for deer with copper jacketed hollow points for years.
In section “3” below it says “a single lead projectile”. I pulled this from the other recent thread on Archery Season extension. I’ve heard negative reviews on the shockwaves I usually used and got some all copper Barnes with great reviews.
321 CMR 3.02(4) Hunting and Tagging of Deer
(b) Open Season. The open season shall be in five periods as follows:
1. Beginning the lastMonday in October and ending the following Saturday, any three days of which may be selected by the Director, there shall be a special season for paraplegics exclusively, who may hunt deer by means of a shotgun not larger than ten gauge, including shotgunswith a rifled bore, bymeans of a muzzle-loading firearm, fired from the shoulder, .44 to .775 caliber, or by means of a bow and arrow. Such hunting shall be limited to those specified areas designated by the Director. During this special season, nothing shall prevent the otherwise lawful hunting of birds and mammals in accordance with established statutes and regulations.
a. In zones 1-9, beginning on the sixth Monday prior to Thanksgiving and ending on the first Saturday after Thanksgiving, all days inclusive, there shall be a special season for archers exclusively and during this period deer may be hunted only bymeans of a bow and arrow. In zones 10-14, beginning on the eighth Monday prior to Thanksgiving and ending on the first Saturday after Thanksgiving, all days inclusive, except on the tribal lands of the Wampanoag Tribe of Gay Head in the Town of Aquinnah in Dukes County, there shall be a special season for archers exclusively and during this period deer may be hunted only by means of a bow and arrow.
b. Beginning on the thirdMondayprior to the firstMondayinNovember and ending
on the last dayof the primitive firearms season as specified in 321 CMR3.02(4)(b)4., all days inclusive, and only on the tribal lands of theWampanoag Tribe of GayHead in the town of Aquinnah in Dukes County, there shall be a special season for archers. During this period, deer may be hunted only bymeans of a bow and arrow, provided that during the shotgun deer season for Zone 13 as provided for in 321 CMR 3.02(4)(b)3., and during the primitive firearms season as provided for in 321 CMR 3.02(4)(b)4., deer may also be hunted with such firearms as are specified for those seasons.
2. Beginning the first Monday after Thanksgiving and ending the second Saturday thereafter, all days inclusive except Sunday, deer may be hunted throughout Massachusetts bymeans of a shotgun not larger than ten gauge, including shotguns with a rifled bore, bymeans of a muzzle-loading firearm, fired from the shoulder, .44 to .775 caliber, or by means of a bow and arrow.
3. The primitive firearms period of the open season is intended to provide an opportunity to hunt deer in a manner similar to the way our forefathers hunted in the mid-1800's. The primary consideration is to limit the weapons to a type similar to those in common use during that period of history. Basically, thatmeans a single shot, muzzle- loading firearm with limited range and firepower. Secondarily, the hunter participating in this season should have a relative degree of solitude significantly different from the hunting pressure which is characteristic of the shotgun deer season.
Beginning the third Monday after Thanksgiving and ending on December 31st, all days inclusive, deer may be hunted only bymeans of a primitive firearm using a single lead projectile, or bymeans of a bow and arrow. Black powder (or synthetic substances such as "pyrodex" which are approved for competitive muzzle-loading meets by the National Muzzle Loading Rifle Association) is the only powder to be used during this season. Primitive firearms may have smooth or rifled bores and shall not contain more than one usable barrel. In the case of primitive firearms with double bore barrels, one barrel shall be made inoperative by removal of the nipple and hammer. The caliber of a primitive firearmshall be not less than .44 normore than .775 and onlythose primitive firearms having a barrel length of 18 inches or longer shall be permitted.
321 CMR 3.02(4) Hunting and Tagging of Deer
(b) Open Season. The open season shall be in five periods as follows:
1. Beginning the lastMonday in October and ending the following Saturday, any three days of which may be selected by the Director, there shall be a special season for paraplegics exclusively, who may hunt deer by means of a shotgun not larger than ten gauge, including shotgunswith a rifled bore, bymeans of a muzzle-loading firearm, fired from the shoulder, .44 to .775 caliber, or by means of a bow and arrow. Such hunting shall be limited to those specified areas designated by the Director. During this special season, nothing shall prevent the otherwise lawful hunting of birds and mammals in accordance with established statutes and regulations.
a. In zones 1-9, beginning on the sixth Monday prior to Thanksgiving and ending on the first Saturday after Thanksgiving, all days inclusive, there shall be a special season for archers exclusively and during this period deer may be hunted only bymeans of a bow and arrow. In zones 10-14, beginning on the eighth Monday prior to Thanksgiving and ending on the first Saturday after Thanksgiving, all days inclusive, except on the tribal lands of the Wampanoag Tribe of Gay Head in the Town of Aquinnah in Dukes County, there shall be a special season for archers exclusively and during this period deer may be hunted only by means of a bow and arrow.
b. Beginning on the thirdMondayprior to the firstMondayinNovember and ending
on the last dayof the primitive firearms season as specified in 321 CMR3.02(4)(b)4., all days inclusive, and only on the tribal lands of theWampanoag Tribe of GayHead in the town of Aquinnah in Dukes County, there shall be a special season for archers. During this period, deer may be hunted only bymeans of a bow and arrow, provided that during the shotgun deer season for Zone 13 as provided for in 321 CMR 3.02(4)(b)3., and during the primitive firearms season as provided for in 321 CMR 3.02(4)(b)4., deer may also be hunted with such firearms as are specified for those seasons.
2. Beginning the first Monday after Thanksgiving and ending the second Saturday thereafter, all days inclusive except Sunday, deer may be hunted throughout Massachusetts bymeans of a shotgun not larger than ten gauge, including shotguns with a rifled bore, bymeans of a muzzle-loading firearm, fired from the shoulder, .44 to .775 caliber, or by means of a bow and arrow.
3. The primitive firearms period of the open season is intended to provide an opportunity to hunt deer in a manner similar to the way our forefathers hunted in the mid-1800's. The primary consideration is to limit the weapons to a type similar to those in common use during that period of history. Basically, thatmeans a single shot, muzzle- loading firearm with limited range and firepower. Secondarily, the hunter participating in this season should have a relative degree of solitude significantly different from the hunting pressure which is characteristic of the shotgun deer season.
Beginning the third Monday after Thanksgiving and ending on December 31st, all days inclusive, deer may be hunted only bymeans of a primitive firearm using a single lead projectile, or bymeans of a bow and arrow. Black powder (or synthetic substances such as "pyrodex" which are approved for competitive muzzle-loading meets by the National Muzzle Loading Rifle Association) is the only powder to be used during this season. Primitive firearms may have smooth or rifled bores and shall not contain more than one usable barrel. In the case of primitive firearms with double bore barrels, one barrel shall be made inoperative by removal of the nipple and hammer. The caliber of a primitive firearmshall be not less than .44 normore than .775 and onlythose primitive firearms having a barrel length of 18 inches or longer shall be permitted.
This is copy paste from the current mass f and g website on primitive fore arms deer season. That copy paste you posted is either another state or VERY old. The primitive season used to be lead ball only but that was a long time ago. Here's the current reg......
Primitive Firearms deer season: Primitive Firearms Stamp required. Hunters may use only shoulder-fired muzzleloaders .44 caliber to .775 caliber; barrel length 18 inches or more with only one barrel operational. Inline ignition systems are permitted providing rifle loads from the muzzle. Single projectile only (no buckshot). Sabot rounds, 209 primers, break/hinge-action muzzleloaders, and scopes are legal. Powder limited to black powder or black powder substitutes. A muzzleloader is considered unloaded when cap or pan powder is removed. Archers may hunt during the muzzleloader firearms season but must purchase a Primitive Firearms Stamp. All deer hunters must wear at least 500 square inches of hunter orange on head, back, and chest during the primitive firearms season.
I've taken more deer during muzzle loader season than shotgun season in mass over the years. The modern in lines are accurate as hell. Just have to remember you only have one chance on a shot and make it a good one. There is alot to get used too in working up a load and projectile that is accurate for your rifle but it is all part of the satisfaction.
things to keep in mind
1. Modern muzzies are MUCH more weather resistant than the traditional muzzies......but none of them are weather proof. Buddy of mine missed on a deer 3 years ago. Squeezed the trigger on a nice doe and "pft" ....primer detted and no go on the powder. He kept his muzzle loader charged between hunts.....the load had been in there for over a week totaling 4 hunts. Barrel gets cold.....bring it into the house and it gets warm.....next hunt same thing.....condensation can get in there and dampen the powder! I empty my charge and projo after every hunt if I don't take a shot then put in a fresh charge and projo for the next trip. Don't get lazy.....new charge and projo every hunt.
2. Optics.....you learn pretty quick on cold days (muzzle loader season is in the dead of winter) that your breath will fog that glass on a red dot or scope. I use a red dot.....but practice with it at the range WHEN ITS COLD AS HELL! you don't want to be figuring out how to manage your breath to keep your glass clear when your sighting in on a buck in the field......do that at the range.
3. You'll hear plenty of debate on shooting a clean bore or fouled bore for better accuracy. My advice is pick one and go with it. Your more consistent if you always shoot with a bore that's one or the other. I chose clean bore. When I zero and practice I run a spit patch down the bore between every shot. I'm consistent and accurate this way. Doesn't matter clean or fouled as long as you pick one and stay with it.
There are lots more tips......I'm sure there will be others on here to give you some more nuggets.
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HorizontalHunter
NES Member
I used to hunt with a percussion sidelock. I always tape the end of my barrel and put a layer of Saran Wrap under the #11 percussion cap. I never had a problem with a misfire. Hunting all day in rain/freezing rain and at the end of the day the rifle still goes bang.
Everyone always wants to use the modern substitute powders as the are "modern" powders and must be better than the old black powder. Modern powders have higher ignition temps than true black powder like GOEX or Swiss and are much more prone to misfires in a sidelock.
Use the modern powders in the modern guns with 209 primers and use real black powder in the side locks and misfires won't be an issue.
Bob
Everyone always wants to use the modern substitute powders as the are "modern" powders and must be better than the old black powder. Modern powders have higher ignition temps than true black powder like GOEX or Swiss and are much more prone to misfires in a sidelock.
Use the modern powders in the modern guns with 209 primers and use real black powder in the side locks and misfires won't be an issue.
Bob
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Oh boy.
Thompson center. I have 2 of the IMPACT! Model rifles. They can be found on sale for under about $200. Simple. Accurate. We'll made. Son and I had a banner season last fall thanks to those two rifles.
HorizontalHunter
NES Member
I have the TC Impact as well. Mine is topped with a Nikon scope. I also have a percussion sidelock for when I feel nostalgic. Both are .50 caliber.
Twist rate matters.
The TC Impact has a twist rate of 1:28 which is good for modern sabots.
1:48 is considered a compromise twist
1:66 is a nice slow twist rate for PRB's (Plain Round Balls)
PRB's have been killing game for centuries.
One thing I recommend is to decide what you want and get it now. It will take some time to break it in and work up a load to find what shoots best in your new rifle. Working up the load will break it in.
I included a good article on working up a load. Whether it is a modern BP Rifle, percussion, or flintlock the basic process is the same. You have three variables and you change one variable until you get the best grouping and move on to the next variable.
Powder, patch, ball
Powder, sabot, bullet
I start with the power amount (by volume) in 5g increments I usually start around 70g. You will see the group tighten up and then start to open up. Then off to patch thickness, and then off to PRB size or pistol bullet weight.
http://www.restigouchegunclub.com/info/black powder 1.doc
You can get an idea what others shoot by doing some research online and factor that in.
Bob
71montess
NES Member
Or condom"He was lookin for a Hawkin gun, 50 caliber or better."
For waterproofing, put a balloon over the muzzle & beeswax from a toilet bowl ring between the firelock & barrel, & around the frizzen/pan
I've covered the muzzle with a finger off of a rubber glove, during heavy rain. Never a misfire, using 209 primer & 777 pellets behind a sabot. Never a deer with it yet either though.
Six Age-Old Muzzleloader Rules Put to the Test
Six Age-Old Muzzleloader Rules Put to the Test
The muzzle covers are a good idea if it's going to rain. However.....I'd still change my load before hunting again. The outside to inside temp change is what I think caused the powder problem in my buddies gun.....4 hunts with it and it never rained on us. Powder didn't go off like I said.....but when he pulled the breach......pasty mush came out instead of two clean 777 pellets. Condensation is a bitch! I put in a fresh powder and projo each trip.
HorizontalHunter
NES Member
They make a barrel cover that you can purchase. Think black Oompa Loompa condom. I just use electrical tape.
I always tape my barrels when hunting. Many years ago I fell in the snow during shotgun season and the barrel was plugged with snow. I had to take the barrel off and clear the plug with a stick. I have been taping them ever since.
Bob
I just use electrical tape.I always tape my barrels when hunting. Many years ago I fell in the snow during shotgun season and the barrel was plugged with snow. I had to take the barrel off and clear the plug with a stick. I have been taping them ever since.
Bob
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rifled for pleasure
HorizontalHunter
NES Member
bdb
NES Member
I have a CVA Optima that I love. I also lost a deer due to web powder. Never rained but out in the cold and then back inside in the warmth caused enough condensation to mess it up. I frequently change out powder during the season just to be sure.
I have the 2 impact models and needed a third for the wife. Picked up an Omega used at ktp a couple months ago. Real nice looking gun and shot nice tight groups the ome time I took it out to test it so far. I'll work up a load for it closer to the season. My only complaint so far......I put a scope on it and it really gets in the way when pulling the breach plug out and when putting the primer on. The impacts break like a shotgun and the "dog ear" release mechanism is easy to pull to open it up making priming a breaze even with mittens on. Small complaint and that's my only one on the Omega model.
