MA LTC valid as "proof of safety class" for non-res license?

[sleeplessknight]

So, I'm going through the paperwork to get my Maine non-res LTC, and I note that they want "proof of a safety class". About 5 years ago, I took the MA-certified NRA safety course for my MA LTC, but unfortunately the ravages of time (and ~3 moves) have allowed the certificate to grow legs and wander off. Will Maine accept my MA LTC as proof that I've taken a safety class (seeing as how the latter is a prerequisite for the former), or do I need to pony up the $$$ and an afternoon in a classroom to get a fresh one?

 

[drgrant]

No they won't, because an LTC is not proof you took a safety class.

That said, might be interesting to find out if there are lots of alternatives than something like a BFS course... maybe you could take a more advanced course that would satisfy the requirement and you could get some training out of the deal to boot.

-Mike

 

[sleeplessknight]

If I have to take an NRA-approved safety class to get my LTC, wouldn't it stand to reason if I'm a valid MA LTC holder that I would've had to take an NRA-approved safety class?

Don't get me wrong, I understand this is gov't we're talking about here and that sometimes (a lot of times?) basic logic just doesn't fly. I'm just addressing your statement of "an LTC is not proof you took a safety class"

 

[Kevlar]

If I have to take an NRA-approved safety class to get my LTC, wouldn't it stand to reason if I'm a valid MA LTC holder that I would've had to take an NRA-approved safety class?

No, because a NRA approved course is not necessarily required to obtain an LTC.

For example, the MA hunter safety course satisfies the requirements (MGL 140-131P).

In answer to your original question, here's the applicable statute...

...The applicant may fully satisfy this requirement by submitting to the issuing authority, through documentation in accordance with this subparagraph, proof that the applicant has within 5 years prior to the date of application completed a course that included handgun safety offered by or under the supervision of a federal, state, county or municipal law enforcement agency or a firearms instructor certified by a private firearms association recognized as knowledgeable in matters of handgun safety by the issuing authority or by the state in which the course was taken. A course completion certificate or other document, or a photocopy, is sufficient if it recites or otherwise demonstrates that the course meets all of the requirements of this subparagraph.

As an alternative way of fully satisfying this requirement, an applicant may personally demonstrate knowledge of handgun safety to an issuing authority, if the issuing authority is willing to evaluate an applicant's personal demonstration of such knowledge. The issuing authority is not required to offer this 2nd option.

The demonstration of knowledge of handgun safety to the issuing authority may not be required of any applicant who holds a valid state permit to carry a concealed firearm as of April 15, 1990 or of any applicant who was or is in any of the Armed Forces of the United States and has received at least basic firearms training.

http://www.mainelegislature.org/legis/statutes/25/title25sec2003.html

 

[ochmude]

For you guys saying that they won't accept it, are you speaking from experience? I ask because my wife used her MA LTC as proof of training to obtain an AZ CCW permit. I realize that an MA LTC isn't actually proof of NRA approved training, but AZ doesn't seem to care. Do you know with certainty that Maine won't accept it as proof as well?

 

[Rob Boudrie]

If I have to take an NRA-approved safety class to get my LTC, wouldn't it stand to reason if I'm a valid MA LTC holder that I would've had to take an NRA-approved safety class?

No. The class was not required pre-1998, and no class was required for renewal if you held a license at that time.

 

[one-eyed Jack]

Why don't you just ask them. You could have done that already. Can you get a dupe copy from the class you took? Jack.

 

[Racenet]

For you guys saying that they won't accept it, are you speaking from experience? I ask because my wife used her MA LTC as proof of training to obtain an AZ CCW permit. I realize that an MA LTC isn't actually proof of NRA approved training, but AZ doesn't seem to care. Do you know with certainty that Maine won't accept it as proof as well?

I just called them. No, they will not accept it. You must present a cert for the class.
You are welcome.

 

[sleeplessknight]

Maaaaan, you want me to pick up a TELEPHONE? And interact with PEOPLE? This is 2012! I'm supposed to be able to habitate in my mother's basement on an IV of liquid Fritos and Mountain Dew forever!








but seriously, thank you all for cluing me in, and rep points for the dude who up and called Maine for me

 

[Hiltonizer]

not an attempt to derail.. as I think this is related...

as a former MA hostage... I misplaced my certificate from my NRA safety class in my move to NH... is there a means by which I can re-obtain proof without taking the course again for the purposes of getting a Maine non-res? It's so damn inconvenient to have to unload in a vehicle up there.

 

[garandman]

I tell my wife I'm required to take another two or three day course at Sig Sauer Academy every time renew my license. NH Non-Resident - another couple of days. Gotta get Maine, that will be 2-3 days more, I think? It's for the children....

She also accepts my motorcycle track days as "safety training."

 

[Len-2A Training]

not an attempt to derail.. as I think this is related...

as a former MA hostage... I misplaced my certificate from my NRA safety class in my move to NH... is there a means by which I can re-obtain proof without taking the course again for the purposes of getting a Maine non-res? It's so damn inconvenient to have to unload in a vehicle up there.

Your original Instructor could generate another Cert for you if he can find you in his records. However be aware that the Certs are copyright protected by NRA (they disapprove of Instructors using copied blank Certs, to say the least) and they charge Instructors $7.00 (plus probably an equal amount for "shipping and handling" - they do too much "handling" in my mind) for a replacement Cert.

Another alternative would be to take NRA Personal Protection in the Home (a very good course) . . . it's not repetitive with the BFS type courses and has lots of useful info as well. I can highly recommend an Instructor in the Manchester NH area if you are interested. He assisted me in teaching NRA Personal Protection Outside the Home and did an awesome job. Check first but I think these courses are acceptable to ME, FL and some other states. [NOTE: CT insists on NRA Basic Pistol Only . . . at least that is what I have been told.]

 

[Jose]

Since Maine does not appear to be specific about an NRA course, just go take a real handgun training class in which you actually learn something useful and send that certificate instead.

 

[Hiltonizer]

Since Maine does not appear to be specific about an NRA course, just go take a real handgun training class in which you actually learn something useful and send that certificate instead.

been considering some of the offerings at the Sig Academy as I live 15 minutes away, it may come to that.

 

[drgrant]

If I have to take an NRA-approved safety class to get my LTC, wouldn't it stand to reason if I'm a valid MA LTC holder that I would've had to take an NRA-approved safety class?

Don't get me wrong, I understand this is gov't we're talking about here and that sometimes (a lot of times?) basic logic just doesn't fly. I'm just addressing your statement of "an LTC is not proof you took a safety class"

The reason I said what I said is because I know people with LTCs in MA that have never taken an "NRA approved" safety course in their life because they got grandfathered through the system from one license to another. Therefore it is possible to never have taken one.

-Mike

 

[one-eyed Jack]

The reason I said what I said is because I know people with LTCs in MA that have never taken an "NRA approved" safety course in their life because they got grandfathered through the system from one license to another. Therefore it is possible to never have taken one.

-Mike

I'm one of those. Now that I'm a Mass cert. inst., I should probably give myself the course. And probably flunk it. Jack.

 

[Wendell]

Another alternative would be to take NRA Personal Protection in the Home (a very good course) . . . it's not repetitive with the BFS type courses and has lots of useful info as well. I can highly recommend an Instructor in the Manchester NH area if you are interested. He assisted me in teaching NRA Personal Protection Outside the Home and did an awesome job. Check first but I think these courses are acceptable to ME, FL and some other states. [NOTE: CT insists on NRA Basic Pistol Only . . . at least that is what I have been told.]

"...You are required to complete a handgun safety course, which must consist of no less than the NRA's "Basic Pistol Course," prior to submitting the application. The NRA's "Home Firearms Safety Course" and "First Steps Pistol Orientation Program" are not approved courses...."
http://www.ct.gov/despp/cwp/view.asp?a=4213&q=494614#eligibility

 

[Len-2A Training]

Wendell, although PPIH involves shooting almost 100 rds of pistol thru numerous drills, others have convinced me that CT won't accept ANYTHING OTHER THAN NRA Basic Pistol! [Note that I said that in the quote you posted.]

ME, FL and some other states will likely accept NRA PPIH as proof of training.

 

[Hiltonizer]

Can't find my old cert for the life of me, anyone know if the free online state of Maryland online course would fly? There's one done by the DC police and another by the state at http://www.mdgunsafety.com/

Free, 30 minutes, cert. The law is broad as to what's accepted and vague, so in theory it should

 

[Len-2A Training]

Can't find my old cert for the life of me, anyone know if the free online state of Maryland online course would fly? There's one done by the DC police and another by the state at http://www.mdgunsafety.com/

Free, 30 minutes, cert. The law is broad as to what's accepted and vague, so in theory it should

Acceptable where?

MA won't accept it, nor CT, of that I'm certain.

 

[Hiltonizer]

Acceptable where?

MA won't accept it, nor CT, of that I'm certain.

Maine, Ayuh.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Maine, Ayuh.

Unsure. Call ME SP and ask them.

I did that since I'm an NRA Instructor and they accepted my Instructor credentials in lieu of taking a course.

 

[GaryW]

The reason I said what I said is because I know people with LTCs in MA that have never taken an "NRA approved" safety course in their life because they got grandfathered through the system from one license to another. Therefore it is possible to never have taken one.

-Mike

I took a live-fire NRA/MA approved course in March 2012 and got my LTC in MA. I also took another NRA course in NH [in November] with a friend as the instructor (they told me I could not get a certificate even though it was a live-fire training event because they could not issue a certificate to a MA resident since it was "unofficial") because they could not issue a MA eligible certificate (which I already possessed) but it was twice what MA required for a LTC. I can't imagine that Augusta is not aware of what laws are in effect in MA. I could be wrong, I probably am.

 

[bostonasphalt2]

PM inbound

 

[Racenet]

I took a live-fire NRA/MA approved course in March 2012 and got my LTC in MA. I also took another NRA course in NH [in November] with a friend as the instructor (they told me I could not get a certificate even though it was a live-fire training event because they could not issue a certificate to a MA resident since it was "unofficial") because they could not issue a MA eligible certificate (which I already possessed) but it was twice what MA required for a LTC. I can't imagine that Augusta is not aware of what laws are in effect in MA. I could be wrong, I probably am.

You have to understand, Augusta doesn't care what laws are in effect in MA, nor do they need to in this case. What is required for their permit process is what is required. Read and follow the instructions. Do not try to skate the requirements. It is not their problem if you can not provide a copy of your NRA Cert.

 

[Golddiggie]

You have to understand, Augusta doesn't care what laws are in effect in MA, nor do they need to in this case. What is required for their permit process is what is required. Read and follow the instructions. Do not try to skate the requirements. It is not their problem if you can not provide a copy of your NRA Cert.

You think my 'NRA Home Firearm Safety Course' cert from 1996 would still count??

 

[Len-2A Training]

You think my 'NRA Home Firearm Safety Course' cert from 1996 would still count??

Nope, ME requires training within the past 5 years! Unsure if HFS qualifies but it's too old anyway. Read their instructions carefully.