MA H3476 definition of "Replica Firearms" UPDATE Bill "dead" for this session

[Ultimate Shield]

This bill seriously sucks. I literally cannot understand what even brought it into being in the first place. Looking to make a solution to a nonexistent problem and will just make criminals out of many otherwise innocent people

 

[Len-2A Training]

Amend? No, please call him back and ask that he opposes/kills the bill. There's no fixing that piece of sh1t

He admitted that he isn't sure that it is fixable, but he's taking a wait and see attitude to decide how to vote, based on what amendments are added. That is his position.

I told him that nobody had to "teach" him or me NOT to point any guns at cops . . . he agreed and then said "times have changed". I called BS on that remark. You can't fix stupid and personal responsibility should prevail but he thinks we need to protect idiots who have no common sense. I'm all for Darwin taking these oxygen thieves home.

 

[Drix]

Think of the MA paintball industry too. Last I saw PB players outnumbered airsoft, and the law is so vague that every one of my PB guns would become a problem.

 

[Bill Katt]

....and then the criminals just paint their real gunz orange.

Stupid law is stupid.

 

[Bfatz]

Co-sponsor of the bill Sen. Michael O. Moore is A+ GOAL rated, so I am surprised to see this kind of "if it saves only one life, think of the children' drivel from him in last week's Telegram: http://www.telegram.com/article/20160123/NEWS/160129585

The Senate vice-chairman of the public-safety committee, Michael O. Moore, D-Millbury, said Thursday: “This is a matter of public safety. The last thing we want is a child or anyone getting shot by a police officer because they had a gun that looked realistically like an authentic firearm. I read one comment someone (made) that this is a silly law,” he said. “Well, they may think it’s silly, until a family (member) or friend gets seriously injured or killed” because a police officer mistakes a replica gun for a real one. Maybe we can put some exemptions in for a paintball facility - those aren’t people who are running around in public with the guns."

 

[Horrible]

So, did they vote yet?

 

[Jason m]

Liberals have to get to those young minds early in life, lets make guns bad and evil and if we don't regulate them then you cant have them. This is just another way to chip away at the foundation of this great country.

Jason.

 

[rogues]

I spoke to somebody in my Rep (John Rogers) earlier today (about 11:45). Considering he represents Norwood and Chief Brooks from Norwood has endorsed it as President of the Mass Chiefs of Police Assn, I already have a good idea of where Rogers will be headed. The guy I did talk to did admit that they see several issues with this, some of which have been stated here. He had a proposed amendment come into his email while we were talking that mentioned grandfathering in certain paintball guns and air pistols, etc. When I pressed that this was a non-starter agreed. He said there's a lot of scrambling for amendments for this.

 

[Mike S]

They're going to have to ban spray paint next... wait, they can't, they're forcing people to paint their air guns.

 

[thorin]

So, did they vote yet?

Starting now
https://malegislature.gov/Events/EventDetail?eventId=2345&eventDataSource=Sessions&videoId=0

Edit- Wow, that was fast, lasted about 20 seconds in which they referred it to the Joint Committee on the Judiciary. Did not hear any amendments voted on.

 

[rogues]

Amendment history here, trying to make sense of it: https://malegislature.gov/Bills/189/House/H3476

Edit: can't see where they improved it at all. It looks like it's moving forward.

 

[Mike S]

From GOAL's FB

***Great News*** The Imitation Gun bill, H.3476, was sent to the Judiciary Committee and will not be voted on. According to our Exec. Director Jim Wallace the bill was a "done deal" this morning, so this is a tremendous positive development.

We would like to thank everyone who worked to get information out to our legislature to explain why this was bad, useless legislation.

We would also like to thank all of the legislators who took the time to listen to reason as to why this bill should be stopped.

Great work everyone, now, on to the next. We will be attending the Public Safety Committee public hearing at the State House tomorrow morning at 10:00 AM in room A1. We hope to see many of you there in support of our Second Amendment.

 

[thorin]

DeLeo seems to have a huge boner for this law to be ramming it through this way. Wonder who & what's driving it behind the scenes.

These amendments turn this into even more of a crap sandwich. From amendment 1, sell your air rifle or other "noncompliant item" to anyone, face a $5000 fine for doing so. https://malegislature.gov/Bills/189/House/H3476/Amendment/House/1/Text

And further amend the bill in Section 3, , by inserting after the words, “chapter 93A.” in line 26, the following: “Whenever the Attorney General shall believe from evidence satisfactory to the Office of the Attorney General that any person, firm, corporation, or association, or agent, or employee thereof has violated any provision of this law, the Attorney General may bring an action or special proceeding in the supreme court for a judgement enjoining the continuance of such violation and for a civil penalty of not more than $5,000 for each violation. A violation under this law shall be defined as one non-compliant imitation firearm. If it shall appear to the satisfaction of the court or justice that the defendant has violated any provision of this article, no proof shall be required that any person has been injured thereby, nor that the defendant knowingly or intentionally violated such provision. In connection with any such proposed application, the Attorney General is authorized to take proof, issue subpoenas, and administer oaths in the manner provided in the civil practice laws and rules.”

 

[Len-2A Training]

They're going to have to ban spray paint next... wait, they can't, they're forcing people to paint their air guns.

Sure they can, they can just mandate use of a brush instead!


---------------------

I just received a call from my Rep's aide telling me that my Rep and others raised issues of Constitutionality (WOW!) and numerous other concerns, resulting in the bill being sent to the Judiciary Committee. Let's hope it dies there.

 

[NewGuyRay]

Sure they can, they can just mandate use of a brush instead!

Well now, Linsky jumped in with an amendment to fix that. Use of a replica of a replica during a crime will get you 10 to life

 

[thorin]

Malden & Lowell are trying to come up with their own citywide regulations

Lowell's plan : "The ordinance bans anyone from selling, possessing, using or displaying any replica gun on public property unless "certain identifying marks are visible." The entire exterior of the gun must be painted a bright color such as white, red or orange, or must be made of transparent or translucent materials. It also must be stamped with the name of the manufacturer, have an orange tip on the barrel, and cannot include an attached laser pointer."
http://www.lowellsun.com/breakingnews/ci_29435801/lowell-city-council-hold-hearing-replica-gun-ban

Malden's proposal is significantly less onerous
http://malden.wickedlocal.com/article/20160121/NEWS/160128666

 

[MachineHead]

So how is a gun painted a non-transparent color but they have to be made of transparent or translucent materials?

Go Lowell!

 

[milktree]

I wonder if any of those clowns know that "blue" in the context of guns isn't really BLUE.

I wonder if the blue training guns that really are blue fall under this stupidity.

- - - Updated - - -

It's pretty clear that the authors of this garbage really think cops are staggeringly stupid, that's the only explanation.

 

[TayNinh_66]

Starting now
https://malegislature.gov/Events/EventDetail?eventId=2345&eventDataSource=Sessions&videoId=0
Edit- Wow, that was fast, lasted about 20 seconds in which they referred it to the Joint Committee on the Judiciary. Did not hear any amendments voted on.

The status of the bill is listed as being sent to Judiciary Committee. In other words, the DeLeo committee. It must go through one more reading where amendments can be made and voted upon. (according to DeLeo's wishes) I presume Cullinane's amendments to his own bill will be passed. The constitutionality is decided in the committee on Third Reading. Note that rules were suspended to ramrod this through.

Then it's on to the Senate Committee on Ethics and Rules. It gets two more hearings in Senate where it can be amended again. If amended it goes to joint committee.

My guess is it will be easier to amend in the Senate because they don't like DeLeo jamming things down their throat.

 

[milktree]

How many examples have there been of someone with a fake gun who wasn't using it to make threats was accidentally shot?

I can think of exactly one, over a year ago, and it's pretty obvious the cop over-reacted.

What problem do they imagine they're solving?

 

[thorin]

I'll bet they are going to try to sneak this back out of the judiciary committee under the radar at some point
http://www.masslive.com/politics/in..._for_passage_imitation.html#incart_river_home

 

[Horrible]

How many examples have there been of someone with a fake gun who wasn't using it to make threats was accidentally shot?

I can think of exactly one, over a year ago, and it's pretty obvious the cop over-reacted.

What problem do they imagine they're solving?

Meanwhile the real criminals run along unfettered. Liberals continue to focus on issues that are not real issues and ignore the problems that are jettisoning this once great state and nation into the crapper.

 

[milktree]

I'll bet they are going to try to sneak this back out of the judiciary committee under the radar at some point
http://www.masslive.com/politics/in..._for_passage_imitation.html#incart_river_home

"We want to make sure that we're doing our due diligence to make sure that it does not violate federal law," the Dorchester Democrat told the News Service.

What the hell? Their primary concern is making sure the law doesn't break federal law?

How about making sure it will actually reduce violent crime, or prevent a meaningful number of accidents, or if it's just bloody stupid?

 

[thorin]

From the masslive article: "Naughton said an amendment filed by Cullinane takes care of those concerns to the point that GOAL "should be supportive" of the bill." Uh, no. They created an exception for paintball and airsoft ranges to use up their current stock of items, but not for pellet/bb gun ranges or stores. And added a bunch of other BS, including empowering the AG to issue a fine up $5000 for the sale or transfer of each item.

And will let you keep your noncompliant items provided: “(d) Non-compliant imitation firearms legally purchased prior to the implementation of H.3476 may only be used on private property, including at existing paintball and air soft recreational facilities, provided that the private property is not in public view or in view from a public way.” So forget about hunting on public lands. And you can't sell them or transfer them. Giving grandpa's old daisy to a grandkid selling your old 10M target rifle to upgrade would constitute an offense (Amendment A) "If it shall appear to the satisfaction of the court or justice that the defendant has violated any provision of this article, no proof shall be required that any person has been injured thereby, nor that the defendant knowingly or intentionally violated such provision."

I'm sure their argument about the fed law will be along the lines of "We aren't banning anything, just regulating appearances for consumer safety".

 

[Mike S]

This bill is a great example of what happens with the mass political "machine" and how hard it is to stop once it's set in motion. There's a lot of weirdness with this one as well as it was fast tracked through the state house and nobody seems to know how or why this happened.

The result of all this is we have the Judiciary committee working on a useless bill, trying to polish a piece of coal into a diamond.

Yet another great example of why we need to do away with a professional - paid legislature.

ETA here's the federal legislation which covers the items in the bill.

United States Code, Title 15, Section 5001, BB/AIRGUN/PAINTBALL/IMITATION FIREARM PREEMPTION.

(a) Acts prohibited
It shall be unlawful for any person to manufacture, enter into commerce, ship, transport, or receive any toy, look-alike, or imitation firearm unless such firearm contains, or has affixed to it, a marking approved by the Secretary of Commerce, as provided in subsection (b).

(b) Distinctive marking or device; exception; waiver; adjustments and changes
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2) or (3), each toy, look-alike, or imitation firearm shall have as an integral part, permanently affixed, a blaze orange plug inserted in the barrel of such toy, look-alike, or imitation firearm. Such plug shall be recessed no more than 6 millimeters from the muzzle end of the barrel of such firearm.
(2) The Secretary of Commerce may provide for an alternate marking or device for any toy, look-alike, or imitation firearm not capable of being marked as provided in paragraph (1) and may waive the requirement of any such marking or device for any toy, look-alike, or imitation firearm that will only be used in the theatrical, movie or television industry.
(3) The Secretary is authorized to make adjustments and changes in the marking system provided for by this section, after consulting with interested persons.

(c) “Look-alike firearm” defined
For purposes of this section, the term “look-alike firearm” means any imitation of any original firearm which was manufactured, designed, and produced since 1898, including and limited to toy guns, water guns, replica nonguns, and air-soft guns firing nonmetallic projectiles. Such term does not include any look-alike, nonfiring, collector replica of an antique firearm developed prior to 1898, or traditional B–B, paint-ball, or pellet-firing air guns that expel a projectile through the force of air pressure.

(d) Study and report
The Director of the Bureau of Justice Statistics is authorized and directed to conduct a study of the criminal misuse of toy, look-alike and imitation firearms, including studying police reports of such incidences and shall report on such incidences relative to marked and unmarked firearms.

(e) Technical evaluation of marking systems
The Director of National Institute of Justice is authorized and directed to conduct a technical evaluation of the marking systems provided for in subsection (b) to determine their effectiveness in police combat situations. The Director shall begin the study within 3 months after November 5, 1988, and such study shall be completed within 9 months after November 5, 1988.

(f) Effective date
This section shall become effective on the date 6 months after November 5, 1988, and shall apply to toy, look-alike, and imitation firearms manufactured or entered into commerce after November 5, 1988.

(g) Preemption of State or local laws or ordinances; exceptions. The provisions of this section shall supersede any provision of State or local laws or ordinances which provide for markings or identification inconsistent with provisions of this section provided that no State shall—

(i) prohibit the sale or manufacture of any look-alike, nonfiring, collector replica of an antique firearm developed prior to 1898, or
(ii) prohibit the sale (other than prohibiting the sale to minors) of traditional B–B, paint ball, or pellet-firing air guns that expel a projectile through the force of air pressure.

 

[thorin]

I'm not going to believe this bill is 'dead' until I see its status marked "needs further study". There are a couple of dedicated antis (Creem, Chang-Diaz) on the Judiciary Committee and a bunch of reps from urban areas, so I'm going to assume that most aren't sympathetic. We had more allies on the Public Safety committee and this turd still got released favorably. I bet they are going to try to sneak it out of the Judiciary Committee under the radar now that they know we are watching, maybe without a public hearing. The last public hearing was announced only 2 days before it happened, so they were already trying to be sneaky.

I wonder if the MIT air rifle team and the various junior teams are aware that this could impact them.

I have a feeling the Judiciary's argument is going to be "We aren't banning anything, just regulating their appearance for consumer safety" to try to skirt the Fed law. Even though the regulation will be a defacto ban.

Here is the list of contact information for the members of the Joint Committee on the Judiciary. If one of them is your rep or senator please mention that you are their constituent.

[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
HOUSE CHAIR
John V. Fernandes D Milford
State House Room 136 Boston, MA 02133 Phone: 617-722-2396Fax: 617-626-0706 Email: [email protected] District Office 12 Main Street P.O Box 436 Milford, MA 01757 Phone: (508) 473-3063 Fax: (508) 478-4420
HOUSE VICE-CHAIR
Claire D. Cronin D Easton
State House Room 136 Boston, MA 02133 Phone: 617-722-2396 Fax: 617-626-0285 Email: [email protected]
SENATE CHAIR
William N. Brownsberger D Belmont
State House Room 504Boston, MA 02133 Phone: 617-722-1280 Email: [email protected]
SENATE VICE-CHAIR
John F. Keenan D Quincy
State HouseRoom 413B Boston, MA 02133 Phone: 617-722-1494 Fax: 617-722-1055 Email: [email protected]

HOUSE MEMBERS
Colleen M. Garry D Dracut
State House Room 238 Boston, MA 02133 Phone: 617-722-2380 Fax: 617-722-2847Email: [email protected]
John C. Velis D Westfield
State House Room 448 Boston, MA 02133 Phone: 617-722-2582 Email: [email protected]
Michael S. Day D Stoneham
State HouseRoom 448Boston, MA 02133Phone: 617-722-2582Email: [email protected]
Paul Tucker D Salem
State House Room 134 Boston, MA 02133 Phone: 617-722-2400 Email: [email protected] District Office 14 Bay View Circle, Salem, MA 01970
James J. Lyons, Jr. R Andover
State House Room 443 Boston, MA 02133 Phone: 617-722-2460 Fax: 617-626-0246 Email: [email protected] District Office 12 High Vale Lane Andover, MA 01810
Jeffrey N. Roy D Franklin
State House Room 527A Boston, MA 02133 Phone: 617-722-2020 Fax: 617-626-0279 Email: [email protected]
Evandro C. Carvalho D Dorchester
State House 446 Boston, MA 02133 Phone: 617-722-2460 Fax: 617-626-0802 Email: [email protected]
Carlos Gonzalez D Springfield
State House Room 26 Boston, MA 02133 Phone: 617-722-2080 Email: [email protected] District Office 1655 Main Street Suite 202 Springfield, MA 01103 Phone: 413-251-0007
Sheila C. Harrington R Groton
State House Room 237 Boston, MA 02133 Phone: 617-722-2305 Fax: 617-626-0199 Email: [email protected]

SENATE MEMBERS
Sonia Chang-Diaz D Boston
State House Room 111Boston, MA 02133Phone: 617-722-1673Fax: 617-722-1079Email: [email protected]
Cynthia S. Creem D Newton
State House Room 312A Boston, MA 02133 Phone: 617-722-1639 Fax: 617-722-1266 Email: [email protected]
Patricia D. Jehlen D Somerville
State House Room 424 Boston, MA 02133 Phone: 617-722-1578 Fax: 617-722-1117 Email: [email protected]
Richard J. Ross R Wrentham
State House Room 419 Boston, MA 02133 Phone: 617-722-1555 Fax: 617-722-1054 Email: [email protected]

 

[Blooglo]

" There's a lot of weirdness with this one as well as it was fast tracked through the state house and nobody seems to know how or why this happened. "

Hmm, any legislators or friends of legislators looking to develop land that is currently a paintball range? Just semi-kidding, but things like this have been known to happen.

 

[milktree]

This bill is a great example of what happens with the mass political "machine" and how hard it is to stop once it's set in motion. There's a lot of weirdness with this one as well as it was fast tracked through the state house and nobody seems to know how or why this happened.

The result of all this is we have the Judiciary committee working on a useless bill, trying to polish a piece of coal into a diamond.

Yet another great example of why we need to do away with a professional - paid legislature.

ETA here's the federal legislation which covers the items in the bill.

(d) Study and report
The Director of the Bureau of Justice Statistics is authorized and directed to conduct a study of the criminal misuse of toy, look-alike and imitation firearms, including studying police reports of such incidences and shall report on such incidences relative to marked and unmarked firearms.

(e) Technical evaluation of marking systems
The Director of National Institute of Justice is authorized and directed to conduct a technical evaluation of the marking systems provided for in subsection (b) to determine their effectiveness in police combat situations. The Director shall begin the study within 3 months after November 5, 1988, and such study shall be completed within 9 months after November 5, 1988.

I'd love to see the results of that study and evaluation.

 

[Rider]

They're going to have to ban spray paint next... wait, they can't, they're forcing people to paint their air guns.

First, they need to pass a law against being unarmed when the cops shoot you. That should go a long way towards solving whatever imaginary problem they aren't really trying to solve.

I can't wait to cerakote all my Glock slides Safety Orange.

 

[mousegunguy]

Curious to know if anybody has any new information on what's happening with this?