-
If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership The benefits pay for the membership many times over.
-
Be sure to enter the NES/MFS May Giveaway ***Canik METE SFX***
LTC holder uses gun for self defense in Quincy, has LTC/gun(s) seized.
- Thread starter Mike S
- Start date
And the alleged knife wielding attacker had his weapon returned to him without question.
Well, they kind of have to determine if it was truly self defense or if the guy that fired his weapon acted inappropriately. I don't necessarily agree with the move, but I understand it. When a cop shoots someone it is standard to take the gun and either put them on leave or on inside duty where they are not armed. This is typically until they figure out what happened and physch tests and all that stuff are complete.
Again, it sucks, but the same thing would happen to anyone in this situation. If I was off duty and used a gun in self defense I'd expect the same treatment. And probably be stuck on inside duty and unable to work overtime.
Again, it sucks, but the same thing would happen to anyone in this situation. If I was off duty and used a gun in self defense I'd expect the same treatment. And probably be stuck on inside duty and unable to work overtime.
You think he still has a license and the ability to drive a car legally? My money is on his license being revoked.
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2005
- Messages
- 47,556
- Likes
- 33,622
True, but in normal situations the cop is not required to surrender all of his/her guns, or forfeit the right to possess and carry a gun off duty.
The way this was handled, compared to a cop firing at someone he claims had a knife and was acting aggressively, are not even close. One bears a rebuttable assumption of guilt; the other carries an assumption of innocence.
True, but except in things like repeat OUI, there is no "lifetime revocation" or "prohibited person/driving for life" status.
Mike S
NES Member
The point went flying right over your head.
- - - Updated - - -
Bingo, not to mention if he owns any other motor vehicles they wouldn't be seized, never to be returned or compensated for.
Chevy 2 65
NES Member
Yeah, that should stop him from driving. You are missing the point. Replace firearm(s) with car(s).
constitutional rights don't have a piece of plastic. Do you have a permit for the 1A or 4A or 5A?
Last edited:
OK, so we are working on the assumption that he will never get his LTC or guns back, ever....
I didn't know that there was already an ending to this story, some of you guys seem to already know that his LTC and guns are gone forever.
Im pretty sure the guy will get back his LTC and guns if cleared of any wrong doing. And as I stated above, I don't agree with it.
no way. Pick up brass, walk away whistling. If it ain't on camera, it didn't happen.
amm5061
NES Member
Guns are probably already on their way to the bonded warehouse. He's never going to see those again.
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2005
- Messages
- 47,556
- Likes
- 33,622
No, that was not my point.
My point was that as a non-LEO, his LTC and personal guns are gone at least for now - which would not be the case with a cop in a similar circumstances.
So why would you include the comparison of a lifetime revocation of a license or being a PP? You put that in there for a reason. If it wasn't to imply the guy isn't getting back his LTC what was the reason you said it?
KMM696
NES Member
Why wouldn't we assume he's never getting his LTC back? His issuing chief could permanently revoke him right now based solely on the charges and be supported in revoking by the courts - and a later acquittal would not have any affect on the revocation. Even if he's acquitted, and his current chief gives him the LTC back, there's no guarantee that the next person to be hired as chief wouldn't revoke him based on the same charges. This is government by whim - there are potentially 352 different government responses to exactly the same set of facts, and those responses can be changed retroactively. So, again - why wouldn't I assume he'll never see his LTC again.
You're "pretty sure" he'll get his LTC and guns back if cleared. You'll pardon me if I don't find that terribly reassuring.
amm5061
NES Member
They took his LTC, so currently he is effectively a PP in Massachusetts. Expect charges to come which will make that official if convicted or if he pleads out. That almost never happens for a cop. You also never hear of a police involved shooting suspect (the cop) having anything confiscated. Such as in the two cases Rob pointed out. They were investigated and cleared but I don't recall their rights being revoked.
Because this is Massachusetts... they could revoke his license for any number of stupid reasons such as "he completely missed his target and fired in the direction of a house so I shall now deem him unsuitable." Good luck ever getting it back without investing a lot of time and money. Compared to a driver's license where you could drive into a house and probably get slapped with a suspension.
![[rolleyes]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/042.gif "Roll Eyes [rolleyes]")
amm5061
NES Member
I swear I just pictured Faker kicking some schmuck into a well screaming that like in 300.
No, we are going with the assumption that it is wrong to restrict someone's rights without due process. Why do they have to take his guns while they investigate? Even if we assume they need the gun he fired for evidence for the moment, why the others? If they determine that he was at fault later, or decide to charge him later why can't they do the LTC dance then, when he has a chance to fight it in court?
While a cop might have his duty gun taken after a shooting incident while they investigate, his right to own possess and carry are not affected in the least. His personal property isn't seized and he isn't left defenseless if the person he shot at, or family or friends of same decide to get revenge while the state has him disarmed pending his witch trial for no crime.
ETA: Perhaps since this is such a bad crime he should also not be allowed to peaceably assemble, or have any protection against self incrimination while they do their thing. Hell, that would make the cops lives easier when they don't have to allow him to defend himself against whatever bogus charges they have lined up.
Last edited:
The gun used is confiscated as evidence. All other guns can be shipped off to a bonded warehouse and my bet is that this is exactly what will happen. With the way bonded warehouses in MA work, he'll never see his guns again or he'll drain his bank account to get them back and not be able to pay a lawyer to defend himself.
Whether or not a chief will return the LTC is a crap-shoot, but the fact that he never reported the incident and the report was by a 3rd party makes him very unlikely to be deemed "suitable" for return of his LTC. In this regard, he screwed himself.
Whether or not a chief will return the LTC is a crap-shoot, but the fact that he never reported the incident and the report was by a 3rd party makes him very unlikely to be deemed "suitable" for return of his LTC. In this regard, he screwed himself.
