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lTC denial M
- Thread starter Aaron kol
- Start date
Asaltweapon
NES Member
If you re-apply, make sure to find out if you need to put down you were denied an LTC in MA now
I would just do it. No need to go thru the bullshit over a technicality in the CLEO's eyes.
OK here is the deal, outside of paying a lawyer, the collective knowledge of this board and certain members is second to none
There are lawyers on this forum, and good ones too.
There are others who are good that have been mentioned.
So lighten up there Francis.
Brockton is a "RED" town, which in NES speak is a town or city that is openly hostile to issuing gun permits.
You had 2 strikes on you before you even started, and then you gave them a reason not only to deny you, but screw you for life because now not only do you have to disclose the arrest but the denial of the permit if you try this again for the rest of your life.
I know you don't want my advice, but I would apply for a FID with the arrest and denial disclosed and see what they do.
If you get it wait a few years, MOVE and try to get a GREEN town to approve you
roccoracer
NES Member
I made a similar mistake a few years ago when renewing. The question, have you ever been before a judge for anything other than non criminal moving violations? Something to that effect.
I answered no but I was arrested once for a suspended license but never went before a judge. The DA pulled me out of the courtroom before I went before a judge. Pay fine and continued without a finding.
My chief called me and said he needed to talk to me. He asked me about the question. I explained that I never went before a judge and so thought I did not need to answer in the affirmative. He said to write him a statment explaining why I said no on the question and he gave me my license. He told me to be sure to disclose it in my future renewals. Great chief by the way.
I answered no but I was arrested once for a suspended license but never went before a judge. The DA pulled me out of the courtroom before I went before a judge. Pay fine and continued without a finding.
My chief called me and said he needed to talk to me. He asked me about the question. I explained that I never went before a judge and so thought I did not need to answer in the affirmative. He said to write him a statment explaining why I said no on the question and he gave me my license. He told me to be sure to disclose it in my future renewals. Great chief by the way.
mibro
NES Member
It's possible someone on the Brockton PD will read this thread. In Massachusetts you have to approach this whole process with humility. May I suggest you might as well start now. If you're not a humble person, fake it.
I'll make myself a target and say I don't outright oppose the Massachusetts licensing process. It's designed to prevent people with bad judgement from owning/carrying firearms.
Of course the folks with really bad judgement don't care about licensing, so there's that.
Last but not least I had a similar problem in connection with a little argie-bargie on the street 20 years ago. In the end I just explained the situation to the best of my recollection to the licensing officer, he looked up my record such as it was and told me how to answer the question.
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Possibly the most realistic advice I have seen on this thread so far. Hell, my offense isn't even a crime in the civilian world, but I was court martialed, convicted, jailed and kicked out of the Corps with a BCD. I disclosed it, was denied LTC for "suitability" reasons (I am a nasty criminal for refusing a direct order to take the dangerous anthrax vaccine 20 years earlier, LOL!) and was issued a FID instead. Hasn't cramped my style at all. I have all the guns I need.
Honestly, it's easy to get this stuff wrong, but if your licensing officer's not a dick then it's fine.
When I applied for my LTC for the first time last year (in my late twenties), I didn't write in my application that I got popped for underage drinking in NH as a kid. I'd been told at the time it was a "violation" which was civil and not a crime - basically just a civil ticket. And it was expunged back in the Bush years anyway, so I'd practically forgotten about it.
When the licensing officer was inputting the info into the computer I mentioned it and he clearly didn't care, but he added it to my application anyway. I asked why, and he told me in NH they give you a criminal ticket and then downgrade it to a civil fine later. I had no idea, the cops were so cool during the whole process I had no idea (or I forgot) that I actually got "arrested". There were a lot of us at a campsite that night, they didn't cuff us, and I sat in front of the cruiser on the ride to the station.
So really it comes down to how much of a dick the licensing officer is, and whether they think you're lying or just made a mistake. It might be worth confirming with them that it was the weed issue, trying to explain that you just made a mistake, and asking if they would deny you if you reapply. Forthrightness isn't going to hurt you and it might actually help if the licensing officer is a decent guy.
When I applied for my LTC for the first time last year (in my late twenties), I didn't write in my application that I got popped for underage drinking in NH as a kid. I'd been told at the time it was a "violation" which was civil and not a crime - basically just a civil ticket. And it was expunged back in the Bush years anyway, so I'd practically forgotten about it.
When the licensing officer was inputting the info into the computer I mentioned it and he clearly didn't care, but he added it to my application anyway. I asked why, and he told me in NH they give you a criminal ticket and then downgrade it to a civil fine later. I had no idea, the cops were so cool during the whole process I had no idea (or I forgot) that I actually got "arrested". There were a lot of us at a campsite that night, they didn't cuff us, and I sat in front of the cruiser on the ride to the station.
So really it comes down to how much of a dick the licensing officer is, and whether they think you're lying or just made a mistake. It might be worth confirming with them that it was the weed issue, trying to explain that you just made a mistake, and asking if they would deny you if you reapply. Forthrightness isn't going to hurt you and it might actually help if the licensing officer is a decent guy.
mibro
NES Member
This.
If I were you Aaron I'd make an appointment to see your licensing officer, go in and explain everything as best you can. Hold nothing back, it's the apparent deception that's the problem.
"It ain't the crime it's the cover-up that gets you."......Richard Nixon
But...IANAL and free advice is worth what you pay for it.
Sorry that you have to go through this. It's a garbage situation for sure.
In my field I've seen several people turned away for not disclosing minor things.
At my LTC meeting with the licensing officer I answered 'yes' on the form and brought a folder with every moving violation I ever got along with court papers for a couple minor offenses where I was technically arrested criminally, but not really.
I even wore a nice shirt and a tie for once!
He flipped through through it and said it was all minor stuff and not a big deal.
Once you walk out the door and they see stuff you didn't disclose it's an easy denial.
In my field I've seen several people turned away for not disclosing minor things.
At my LTC meeting with the licensing officer I answered 'yes' on the form and brought a folder with every moving violation I ever got along with court papers for a couple minor offenses where I was technically arrested criminally, but not really.
I even wore a nice shirt and a tie for once!
He flipped through through it and said it was all minor stuff and not a big deal.
Once you walk out the door and they see stuff you didn't disclose it's an easy denial.
PaulR
NES Member
Jeez, you all had it rough, bunch of criminals you all are. ![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
My meeting with my licensing officer went something like "Hey Paul, nice to see you, how's the wife? Hows the kids?....we'll get this done for you asap, can never tell with Boston though, they're all screwed up over there"
(as you all know to a Western Mass person, anything East of Worcester is simply called "Boston".)![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
![[mg]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/036.gif "Machine Gun [mg]")
My meeting with my licensing officer went something like "Hey Paul, nice to see you, how's the wife? Hows the kids?....we'll get this done for you asap, can never tell with Boston though, they're all screwed up over there"
(as you all know to a Western Mass person, anything East of Worcester is simply called "Boston".)
There are two things coming back to bite you in the ass...
One, if you appeared in court as as a defendant and didn't disclose it on your application.
Two, it was an offense that you committed as a juvenile.
You/we just happen to be fortunate enough to live in the rare (if only), state where juvenile offenses
can result in a denial.![[angry]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/008.gif "Angry [angry]")
He must have changed his policy.
I forget what it was... $100.00 - $150.00, but that was at least 4 years ago or longer.
One, if you appeared in court as as a defendant and didn't disclose it on your application.
Two, it was an offense that you committed as a juvenile.
You/we just happen to be fortunate enough to live in the rare (if only), state where juvenile offenses
can result in a denial.
He must have changed his policy.
I forget what it was... $100.00 - $150.00, but that was at least 4 years ago or longer.
Comm2A has a good case out of Middlesex County (precedential there) stating that being 'untruthful' is not a risk to public safety which is the standard for suitability denials.
Brockton isn't quite so red anymore, but they are still douche grade compared to most other towns in MA. They restrict and then will lift after a time, etc.
I agree that was probably a bad town to have this happen to him in, though.
-Mike
I could be totally wrong, it's hard to keep track of all the BS, but I think a juvi for possession is one of the things you can get expunged now. If that's correct, a big if, and that is what the problem was, could the OP get it expunged thereby making the statement true
I know someone who was complaining that he was denied. Since I also know the chief in that town, his only comment was that he thought it would be hard to forget sitting in a jail cell for 3 days waiting for court to re-open! I had to agree. I can't imagine not remembering an arrest, or staying in a cell no matter how long ago or for what reason.
The best advice was already given. Go to the court house and get a copy of the Docket Sheet. It will have all the info you'll need for meeting with an attorney and go from there.
That list is ancient and totally irrelevant these days. The Comm2A annual data run on restricted LTCs is what everyone should refer to. Sadly it's not easy to find however.
You should take us up on this offer. We have seen people have negative consequences due to posts on NES about issues with licensing. Have this thread deleted, get a copy of your court docket, then call up a good firearms attorney like Jason Gouda.
If it all turns out well in the end, then once you have your LTC you can tell us all about it. But right now, you need to shut up about it and delete all posts on the subject from social media.
Part of the problem though too Len, as you know, when people have shit like that happen to them, and then they "get their record sealed" people will blow smoke up their ass about what that actually means, which causes a mindset of "I can forget about it because so and so said because sealed this never happened" etc. Hell I know a woman who is a prohibited person (a federal conviction, no less!) that someone told her after X years she could get her rights back, she was kind of dumbfounded when I told her that wasn't possible under the current system unless Trump or whoever gives her a pardon...
I also wouldn't put it past a bad LEO, DA or ADA/prosecutor actually telling people lies about this stuff to get them to suck for a plea on something, either. There's no penalty to the system for blowing smoke up the ass of the accused. Unless the judge broaches the issue
at some point, they'll never know until later...
-Mike
fshalor
NES Member
Delete delete delete.
Op has hisnpath.
0. Stop talking.
1. Get docket
2. Consult with Gouda
3. Expunge record.
4. Reapply 100% truthfully including docket sheet if not expunged, statement about recollection that it would be sealed/expunged. AND statement about LTC denial for not realising (1) juvie record counted as an adult
Or whatever wording the Lawyer Suggests.
Op has hisnpath.
0. Stop talking.
1. Get docket
2. Consult with Gouda
3. Expunge record.
4. Reapply 100% truthfully including docket sheet if not expunged, statement about recollection that it would be sealed/expunged. AND statement about LTC denial for not realising (1) juvie record counted as an adult
Or whatever wording the Lawyer Suggests.
All so very true!
RumRunner
NES Member
Aaron, not sure why you have not posted the words "Please delete this thread". But you should, you are not going to get any better advice than you have already. Leaving this up can't help you anymore, but it is possible it could hurt you. Take the advice given several times, and ask to have this thread deleted and let us know how it turns out later.
