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Looks like Troy Industries might have stepped in it.

EVS911 said:
We thank everyone for their opinions on Dale Monroe. We are still reviewing Mr. Monroe’s relationship with Troy Asymmetric and are looking in to the claims that are being made online.

We have reviewed the 1995 Ruby Ridge Congressional testimony and found at 1:42:35 of the taping, it is indeed Ed Wenger who says he would have shot, had Special Agent Horiuchi not shot first. http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/67153-1

The attribution of the statement on gunssavelife.com to Mr. Monroe is incorrect. After reviewing the testimony, we are confident that you, too, will find that it is indeed Wenger that made the statement, not Monroe.

Monroe was an FBI HRT member assigned a mission which turned tragic. We are saddened by the events at Ruby Ridge and recognize the significance of the tragedy. If you’ve never worn a uniform, you might not understand why Monroe was in the situation he was in, but if you have worn a uniform, you know how it is to follow orders in a fluid situation.

We’re weighing a difficult decision with many facets and things to consider. One thing we know for sure: Mr. Monroe did not state that he would have fired first. We do hope you will take the time to review all of the available materials on Ruby Ridge and Dale Monroe, and welcome your comments, as they will most certainly help us to reach a final, informed decision.
Click to expand...


Monroe's later testimony in that video is just as bad. Troy will need to can him to keep the mob happy.

From GSL:

At 1:03:30 in the video at the link, Dale Monroe believes both shots were justified.

At 2:16:50 in the video, Dale Monroe says he would have taken the shot if he would had the ability to take an accurate shot at the time.
Click to expand...

I bet Monroe is cancelling his LA Times subscription just about now.
 
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new guy said:
Monroe's later testimony in that video is just as bad. Troy will need to can him to keep the mob happy.
Click to expand...

Son, there are times when the justice system fails and people who did horrible things remain free.

The least that "the mob" can do is haunt (legally, of course) that never to be convicted murderer, his accomplices and their masters and enablers. I believe that while Horiuchi's shot was a horribly mistaken decision, things would have been much better had the government admitted they screwed the pooch at Ruby Ridge. Their insistence that they did nothing wrong is the biggest harm to come out of Ruby Ridge...

As a member of the unwashed masses, thank you for recognizing our efforts.
 
I wonder how Dale Monroe or Jody Weis affect how Troy Industries products work..... my stuff works just fine and I don't feel the need to get out the pitchforks or round up the lynch mob. I could jump on the bandwagon but I refuse to join into the hype, I am a gun owner and proud of it, I am able to purchase whatever products I choose to. Do I support Troy Industries....YES, do I have an opinion on what is going on....YES but I thought this forum was about people coming together to talk about their love of guns and who are passionate about their INDIVIDUAL RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS. I think that we are here to offer up good knowledge, support and information about GUNS, HARDWARE and GUNS again. I doubt any single one of you on here are perfect myself included. We all have our crosses to bear, I have no personal agenda to sway people one way or another. I am normally quiet and I just stay below the radar, but I feel we need to get back to the REAL reason why we are ALL here, to talk about GUNS and SHOOTING THEM not sitting in the basement and stroking them. I want each and everyone of you that is able to go to the range this weekend, dig out that safe queen and SHOOT IT. Have a good time at the range. It is very easy to hide behind the keyboard and fire shots at people, we all know that it is true. For those that know me personally, this is very rare that do more than read on this forum. I am not pointing fingers, I am simply asking for all of to remember why we joined this site. Be cause we are NORTH EAST SHOOTERS​
 
EVS911 said:
I wonder how Dale Monroe or Jody Weis affect how Troy Industries products work..... my stuff works just fine and I don't feel the need to get out the pitchforks or round up the lynch mob. I could jump on the bandwagon but I refuse to join into the hype, I am a gun owner and proud of it, I am able to purchase whatever products I choose to. Do I support Troy Industries....YES, do I have an opinion on what is going on....YES but I thought this forum was about people coming together to talk about their love of guns and who are passionate about their INDIVIDUAL RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS. I think that we are here to offer up good knowledge, support and information about GUNS, HARDWARE and GUNS again. I doubt any single one of you on here are perfect myself included. We all have our crosses to bear, I have no personal agenda to sway people one way or another. I am normally quiet and I just stay below the radar, but I feel we need to get back to the REAL reason why we are ALL here, to talk about GUNS and SHOOTING THEM not sitting in the basement and stroking them. I want each and everyone of you that is able to go to the range this weekend, dig out that safe queen and SHOOT IT. Have a good time at the range. It is very easy to hide behind the keyboard and fire shots at people, we all know that it is true. For those that know me personally, this is very rare that do more than read on this forum. I am not pointing fingers, I am simply asking for all of to remember why we joined this site. Be cause we are NORTH EAST SHOOTERS​
Click to expand...

Very true what you are saying, but I ain't buyin it. I feel betrayed by Troy for a different reason, don't see it changing. Troy being the only major player in the market that doubled the cost of their AR15 in the height of the crush after Newtown... no one else did, I don't like being taken advantage of. That's not how I run my business, and not how I think a business that cares about their customers should run theirs. I live less than 2 miles from Troy, been there in my early days of getting acquainted with AR's, was all excited and supportive of Troy... not the case after seeing Troy's attempted rape of my wallet. We all need to make a buck... but not like that.
 
turbo38gn said:
Very true what you are saying, but I ain't buyin it. I feel betrayed by Troy for a different reason, don't see it changing. Troy being the only major player in the market that doubled the cost of their AR15 in the height of the crush after Newtown... no one else did, I don't like being taken advantage of. That's not how I run my business, and not how I think a business that cares about their customers should run theirs. I live less than 2 miles from Troy, been there in my early days of getting acquainted with AR's, was all excited and supportive of Troy... not the case after seeing Troy's attempted rape of my wallet. We all need to make a buck... but not like that.
Click to expand...


More than just Troy jacked up prices of AR15's, AR15 lowers, BCG's etc during the craze. Give me a break. EVERYONE was 'jacking up prices' 8 months ago. I remember seeing $600 Bushmaster's going for $3k. Stripped lowers that sell for $80, selling for $500.

It's not just Troy, or wasn't just Troy. It was everyone.
 
ntomsw said:
More than just Troy jacked up prices of AR15's, AR15 lowers, BCG's etc during the craze. Give me a break. EVERYONE was 'jacking up prices' 8 months ago. I remember seeing $600 Bushmaster's going for $3k. Stripped lowers that sell for $80, selling for $500.

It's not just Troy, or wasn't just Troy. It was everyone.
Click to expand...

No Tom, that's not what I said or meant now or in the past. S&W, Colt, WW, Sig, Ruger... you name it, none of them doubled their price.... Troy did! I'm not talking about private sales here or online, I'm talking about companies with integrity. If Joe Blows Gun Store down the road doubled or tripled the cost of an AR on their shelf, that's not Colts fault. So Tom.... give me a break..
 
Troy's problem here isn't their prices, or the quality of their stuff, it's that they recruited and actively promoted the former Superintendent of the Chicago PD, a guy who has been very vocal about trying to limit 2a rights, then claimed ignorance and apparently an inability to use google when called out on it. They already have Lon Horiuchi's sniper team partner on the payroll, a guy who essentially testified before congress that Vicki Weaver was a good shoot. They brought both of them onboard their training division that's set up to train law enforcement and military (I bet there's plenty of overlap in the curriculum). That training division is pretty well staffed with feds and big city (LA, Chicago, NY) cops, and focuses on military and SWAT tactics. So they pretty much got caught advertising the fact that their JBT training division was proud of having a notorious and supposedly cowardly gun grabber joining their ranks. And this is a company that's supposed to be on our side.

Troy Asymmetric (and look up the definition of asymmetric warfare if you want to really get going) is probably a great idea from one business perspective, but a disaster from another. From Steve Troy's perspective (pic) it's probably a great way to get a bunch of public money and to expand his business, supporting his brothers in law enforcement in the process. From the perspective of 2a supporting consumers it is (or should be) offensive.
 
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Damn, I already smashed my buis.

-Proud to be dad every day, a licensed plumber most days, and wish I was a shoemaker on others.
 
ntomsw said:
More than just Troy jacked up prices of AR15's, AR15 lowers, BCG's etc during the craze. Give me a break. EVERYONE was 'jacking up prices' 8 months ago. I remember seeing $600 Bushmaster's going for $3k. Stripped lowers that sell for $80, selling for $500.

It's not just Troy, or wasn't just Troy. It was everyone.
Click to expand...

The problem is not companies that jacked up prices in response to market (you would do that when selling your house wouldn't you?) but companies that cancelled orders accepted at a particular price when the market changed. Similarly, if the market price went down, you wouldn't pay the old higher price so as to not take advantage of the seller.

I remember back in 94, some companies that had magazines back ordered cancelled the orders so they could sell at new prices, rather than fill the orders - while many of those with backordered product passed on other opportunities because they thought their order would be processed at the accepted price.

Higher prices in times of shortage assure efficient resource allocation - product is available to those who need it the most (as indicated by a willingness to pay a higher price) rather than concentrated in the hands of a few who are either "hoarders" (if you are not one of those lucky few) or "prudent inventory managers" (if you happen to have found product at the below market price). During the shortage, you could choose between $300 lowers that were available and $100 lowers that were out of stock.
 
Last edited:
new guy said:
Troy's problem here isn't their prices, or the quality of their stuff, it's that they recruited and actively promoted the former Superintendent of the Chicago PD, a guy who has been very vocal about trying to limit 2a rights, then claimed ignorance and apparently an inability to use google when called out on it. They already have Lon Horiuchi's sniper team partner on the payroll, a guy who essentially testified before congress that Vicki Weaver was a good shoot. They brought both of them onboard their training division that's setup to train law enforcement and military (I bet there's plenty of overlap in the curriculum). That training division is pretty well staffed with feds and big city (LA, Chicago, NY) cops, and focuses on military and SWAT tactics. So they pretty much got caught advertising the fact that their JBT training division was proud of having a notorious (and supposedly cowardly) gun grabber joining their ranks. And this is a company that's supposed to be on our side.

Troy Asymmetric (and look up the definition of asymmetric warfare if you want to really get going) is probably a great idea from one business perspective, but a disaster from another. From Steve Troy's perspective (pic) it's probably a great way to get a bunch of public money and to expand his business, supporting his brothers in law enforcement in the process. From the perspective of 2a supporting consumers it is (or should be) offensive.
Click to expand...

+1 - for saying it better that I could, seeing how I have been known to post walls of text.

It's a free country, and if Troy wants to court the law enforcement by hiring people they know and like, so be it. But you cannot be for 2A and hire some of the biggest 2A opponents to help you sell to the government which is busy trampling on the 2A...
 
EVS911 said:
I wonder how Dale Monroe or Jody Weis affect how Troy Industries products work..... my stuff works just fine and I don't feel the need to get out the pitchforks or round up the lynch mob. I could jump on the bandwagon but I refuse to join into the hype, I am a gun owner and proud of it, I am able to purchase whatever products I choose to. Do I support Troy Industries....YES, do I have an opinion on what is going on....YES but I thought this forum was about people coming together to talk about their love of guns and who are passionate about their INDIVIDUAL RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS. I think that we are here to offer up good knowledge, support and information about GUNS, HARDWARE and GUNS again. I doubt any single one of you on here are perfect myself included. We all have our crosses to bear, I have no personal agenda to sway people one way or another. I am normally quiet and I just stay below the radar, but I feel we need to get back to the REAL reason why we are ALL here, to talk about GUNS and SHOOTING THEM not sitting in the basement and stroking them. I want each and everyone of you that is able to go to the range this weekend, dig out that safe queen and SHOOT IT. Have a good time at the range. It is very easy to hide behind the keyboard and fire shots at people, we all know that it is true. For those that know me personally, this is very rare that do more than read on this forum. I am not pointing fingers, I am simply asking for all of to remember why we joined this site. Be cause we are NORTH EAST SHOOTERS​
Click to expand...


Your post is absolutely wrong.

You do not "get" what the 2nd Amendment is about. Your post clearly explains that. You hold the same "2nd Amendment" erroneous beliefs that many in the "north east" hold.

The 2nd Amendment allows us to protect ourselves from tyrannical pieces of shit like Weis and Monroe.

Until you can differentiate between the "north east" liberal mentality of what guns should be for, and what the 2nd Amendment requires guns be for, you are no different than any other "anti" who parrots their range membership, NRA card, and merely likes their guns.


I'm not perfect but I can tell you with certainty that:
1. I have never been part of a team that murdered an unarmed woman nursing a baby. Nor have I ever given sworn testimony stating that I would have pulled the trigger on her if someone else didn't beat me to it.
And
2. I have never once in my life been a public figure and champion for gun control nor have I ever publicly stated my opinion in the mass media about the need for gun control.

Looking at the two tyrannical pieces of shit that this thread is about (Dale Monroe and Jody Weis), it is apparent to everyone here, but you, that the 2nd Amendment is to protect we the people from them and anything resembling their likeness.

Time may pass by, but the Constitution does not ,nor can it, evolve. You have evolved your beliefs into something that is not congruent.

You have publicly stated your side.
Now you know what side I am on.
You are not a friend to the 2nd Amendment, nor a friend to me.
 
I imagine we must have Troy employees on this site, if not Mr Troy himself. I'd love to hear how all this is going down over in West Springfield.
 
Rob Boudrie said:
The problem is not companies that jacked up prices in response to market (you would do that when selling your house wouldn't you?) but companies that cancelled orders accepted at a particular price when the market changed. Similarly, if the market price went down, you wouldn't pay the old higher price so as to not take advantage of the seller.

I remember back in 94, some companies that had magazines back ordered cancelled the orders so they could sell at new prices, rather than fill the orders - while many of those with backordered product passed on other opportunities because they thought their order would be processed at the accepted price.

Higher prices in times of shortage assure efficient resource allocation - product is available to those who need it the most (as indicated by a willingness to pay a higher price) rather than concentrated in the hands of a few who are either "hoarders" (if you are not one of those lucky few) or "prudent inventory managers" (if you happen to have found product at the below market price). During the shortage, you could choose between $300 lowers that were available and $100 lowers that were out of stock.
Click to expand...


I'll say it again to you Rob..... S&W, Colt, Ruger, Windham, you name it, other gun manufacturers did not double their wholesale prices, TROY DID....... GET IT? I'm a gun owner and buyer, I don't like being taken advantage of by anyone. Reminds me of 2 rip-offs, father and son team that attempted to take advantage of my lack of knowledge about older military guns I inherited from my Father 3 years ago.. they played me for a fool offering me way less than WHOLESALE prices. I understood they needed room to make a buck... but they flat out acted as though they were doing me a favor with their offer... kinda like TROY doing us a favor by doubling their wholesale pricing. [rolleyes]
 
turbo38gn said:
I'll say it again to you Rob..... S&W, Colt, Ruger, Windham, you name it, other gun manufacturers did not double their wholesale prices, TROY DID....... GET IT? I'm a gun owner and buyer, I don't like being taken advantage of by anyone. Reminds me of 2 rip-offs, father and son team that attempted to take advantage of my lack of knowledge about older military guns I inherited from my Father 3 years ago.. they played me for a fool offering me way less than WHOLESALE prices. I understood they needed room to make a buck... but they flat out acted as though they were doing me a favor with their offer... kinda like TROY doing us a favor by doubling their wholesale pricing. [rolleyes]
Click to expand...

You weren't forced to buy from Troy, nor sell to the father/son team...so whats the problem?
 
Engineer said:
Didn't know Diamond - I like the look/description of their flip up battle sights
View attachment 77084
Diamondhead DIAMOND Integrated Sighting System™|Diamond-Shaped Aperture™|Diamond-shaped housing|Iron Sight |BUIS|Flip-Up Sight
Anybody here using them ?
Click to expand...

Now you can bet I have several sets on my AR's.. [grin] along with a few sets of hand guards, great company!

- - - Updated - - -

Supermoto said:
You weren't forced to buy from Troy, nor sell to the father/son team...so whats the problem?
Click to expand...

no problem here, just sharing my experiences... so..... what's you problem?
 
turbo38gn said:
I'll say it again to you Rob..... S&W, Colt, Ruger, Windham, you name it, other gun manufacturers did not double their wholesale prices, TROY DID....... GET IT? I'm a gun owner and buyer, I don't like being taken advantage of by anyone. Reminds me of 2 rip-offs, father and son team that attempted to take advantage of my lack of knowledge about older military guns I inherited from my Father 3 years ago.. they played me for a fool offering me way less than WHOLESALE prices. I understood they needed room to make a buck... but they flat out acted as though they were doing me a favor with their offer... kinda like TROY doing us a favor by doubling their wholesale pricing. [rolleyes]
Click to expand...


I guess some people here believe in a free market. Imagine that.
 
Rob Boudrie said:
The problem is not companies that jacked up prices in response to market (you would do that when selling your house wouldn't you?) but companies that cancelled orders accepted at a particular price when the market changed. Similarly, if the market price went down, you wouldn't pay the old higher price so as to not take advantage of the seller.

I remember back in 94, some companies that had magazines back ordered cancelled the orders so they could sell at new prices, rather than fill the orders - while many of those with backordered product passed on other opportunities because they thought their order would be processed at the accepted price.

Higher prices in times of shortage assure efficient resource allocation - product is available to those who need it the most (as indicated by a willingness to pay a higher price) rather than concentrated in the hands of a few who are either "hoarders" (if you are not one of those lucky few) or "prudent inventory managers" (if you happen to have found product at the below market price). During the shortage, you could choose between $300 lowers that were available and $100 lowers that were out of stock.
Click to expand...

+1 for a basic lesson in free market concepts.

If I have to pay an inflated price because of panic buying, I'd rather pay it to the manufacturer rather than an intermediary. To make it simpler for y'all - When the Red sox were unable to keep up with demand for their seats, they kept their ticket prices steady... but nobody who went to the game could buy anything from the team, because scalpers bought all the tickets and sold them at the true market prices. If I have to pay 100 USD for a ticket, I'd rather pay it all to the Red Sox rather that pay 100 to a scalper who keeps 50 USD for themselves.

Another easy example - Wal-Mart ammo being soaked up every morning by enterprising people who put it up for private sale at a hefty markup.

Yes, I respect the manufacturers who kept their prices steady during the recent craze... but I see no problem with Troy selling for what the market could bear either, rather than allow scalpers to capture that income.

And as Rob points out above, save the boycotts for manufacturers who broke existing contracts so they could sell at a bigger price - now that is dishonesty.

After all, if you want to boycott Troy, look no further than the original point of this thread - they created a division to court government training and staffed it with anti-2A personalities, including people who though that Ruby Ridge was a great example of government work. And it was not a one time mistake, either - why do you think they took the entire instructor bio pages down? This has been going on for a while, and they just got called on it.

Or look at their defense of Monroe... focusing on one mistakenly attributed statement but glossing over the statement that Monroe actually made that were as bad...

Sorry, Troy - your attempt to play both sides of the fence on the 2A issues cannot and will not work. Choose a side already.
 
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I have some Troy equipment that I purchased when MassMark had the Troy group buys. It is good stuff and I don't plan on getting rid of it but I won't consider them in the future unless things change.

Speaking of MassMark has anyone seen or heard from him lately? He used to post here often but I have not seen a post from him in months.
 
wahsben said:
I have some Troy equipment that I purchased when MassMark had the Troy group buys. It is good stuff and I don't plan on getting rid of it but I won't consider them in the future unless things change.

Speaking of MassMark has anyone seen or heard from him lately? He used to post here often but I have not seen a post from him in months.
Click to expand...

He's around but doesn't get on NES much these days.
 
turbo38gn said:
I'll say it again to you Rob..... S&W, Colt, Ruger, Windham, you name it, other gun manufacturers did not double their wholesale prices, TROY DID....... GET IT? I'm a gun owner and buyer, I don't like being taken advantage of by anyone. Reminds me of 2 rip-offs, father and son team that attempted to take advantage of my lack of knowledge about older military guns I inherited from my Father 3 years ago.. they played me for a fool offering me way less than WHOLESALE prices. I understood they needed room to make a buck... but they flat out acted as though they were doing me a favor with their offer... kinda like TROY doing us a favor by doubling their wholesale pricing. [rolleyes]
Click to expand...

Seriously? How did they "take advantage" of you? They never held a gun to your head and forced you to buy their product- unless they agreed to sell you something, then reneged on the price and violated their contract with you.

I love it when people around here roll the whaambulances at the slightest provocation. [thinking]

-Mike
 
I looked at Troys Instructor lineup. Looks like they've been stacked with big city cops for a while....

How about this? Don't take classes from Troy Assymetric.
 

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