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Looking to start reloading for an AR15 platform need advice

just started getting some neck splits..... i don't track how many times i've reloaded though.... this is plinking ammo so i reload it until it's no good....
also had some interestingly dented cases undented after firing....

annealing might be a bridge too far for me to go, but if i knew someone already set up to do it i would look into the service....
 
EddieCoyle said:
I stopped getting neck splits when I went to the Hornady full-length bushing sizing die. All of my 'regular' sizing dies (Redding, RCBS, Hornady, Lee) work the necks way too much. They all make the neck much more undersized than necessary before using the expander ball to re-expand it out to size.

Take out the expander ball, run a case through your sizer, then measure the unexpanded neck ID. You'll be shocked.
Click to expand...

Hmm, I might have to try that. I use a Forster FLS die at the moment.
 
EddieCoyle said:
I stopped getting neck splits when I went to the Hornady full-length bushing sizing die. All of my 'regular' sizing dies (Redding, RCBS, Hornady, Lee) work the necks way too much. They all make the neck much more undersized than necessary before using the expander ball to re-expand it out to size.

Take out the expander ball, run a case through your sizer, then measure the unexpanded neck ID. You'll be shocked.
Click to expand...

Is this the die?

http://www.hornady.com/store/223-Rem-Match-Grade-Full-Length-Size-Die-1-Each/

It say set he bushings are replaceable and come in different sizes. Which are you using?
 
xtry51 said:
Is this the die?

http://www.hornady.com/store/223-Rem-Match-Grade-Full-Length-Size-Die-1-Each/

It say set he bushings are replaceable and come in different sizes. Which are you using?
Click to expand...

Yup. That's the die. To determine the bushing size, sort your brass, load a round, measure the OD of the loaded round at the neck, and pick a bushing 0.002" smaller. You might need different bushings for different headstamps.

The die comes with an expander ball. Even if you pick a bushing for the thinnest brass you have and use it with the expander ball on the thick stuff, you'll still be working the brass a lot less than a standard die.
 
Update!

I have been using my buddies two scales one is a Frankford Arsenal DS-750 Electronic, and the other is the RCBS Model 505 beam. From my observations it seems the beam scale picks up a .1 deviation sooner than the digital does not sure if a .1 deviation matters much but again it was just my observation.

I loaded 10 rounds with 25 grains of the Varget, and another 10 rounds with 24 grains. My C.O.L. is between 2.19"-2.2" .......

I may load 24.5 grains next and maybe 25.5 then 26........

This weekend I will be testing them out, should I test at 50 yards or 100??
 
EddieCoyle said:
Yup. That's the die. To determine the bushing size, sort your brass, load a round, measure the OD of the loaded round at the neck, and pick a bushing 0.002" smaller. You might need different bushings for different headstamps.

The die comes with an expander ball. Even if you pick a bushing for the thinnest brass you have and use it with the expander ball on the thick stuff, you'll still be working the brass a lot less than a standard die.
Click to expand...


EC, is this for the same firearm, or for a generic?
 
Keven said:
Update!

I have been using my buddies two scales one is a Frankford Arsenal DS-750 Electronic, and the other is the RCBS Model 505 beam. From my observations it seems the beam scale picks up a .1 deviation sooner than the digital does not sure if a .1 deviation matters much but again it was just my observation.

I loaded 10 rounds with 25 grains of the Varget, and another 10 rounds with 24 grains. My C.O.L. is between 2.19"-2.2" .......

I may load 24.5 grains next and maybe 25.5 then 26........

This weekend I will be testing them out, should I test at 50 yards or 100??
Click to expand...



I know somebody told you to do this, but you're just going to waste a lot of components. If you try a bunch of different charge weights and get a good group out of one of them, how do you know if it's just not luck? If I gave you a case of the cheapest crap on the market, and you shot groups with it, I can guarantee that at least one of them will be good.

If you're going to load in .5 grain steps around 25 grains, it's unlikely that you'll find the best charge weight. You won't be working with small enough increments. You also don't start by looking at group size. What you're looking for is called the 'optimal charge weight'. Once you've found it, you can vary the COAL to find the load that shoots the best groups.

Read this:

http://optimalchargeweight.embarqspace.com/

Start with that page, then click the links on the side and read through the process.

I can usually find a very accurate load for a new bullet in less than 50 rounds starting with this method. You'll need at least ten times that doing what you're doing, and it'll still require a bit of luck for you to find the right load.
 
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EddieCoyle said:
I know somebody told you to do this, but you're just going to waste a lot of components. If you try a bunch of different charge weights and get a good group out of one of them, how do you know if it's just not luck? If I gave you a case of the cheapest crap on the market, and you shot groups with it, I can guarantee that at least one of them will be good.

If you're going to load in .5 grain steps around 25 grains, it's unlikely that you'll find the best charge weight. You won't be working with small enough increments. You also don't start by looking at group size. What you're looking for is called the 'optimal charge weight'. Once you've found it, you can vary the COAL to find the load that shoots the best groups.

Read this:

http://optimalchargeweight.embarqspace.com/

Start with that page, then click the links on the side and read through the process.

I can usually find a very accurate load for a new bullet in less than 50 rounds starting with this method. You'll need at least ten times that doing what you're doing, and it'll still require a bit of luck for you to find the right load.
Click to expand...

OK, thanks for the info I will research this more and try to follow it.
 
Well I read through it and now I am thinking that this may be for a more advanced shooter than I am. Perhaps for a rifle marks man looking to stay within a .5" diameter at 300 yards? Not sure I can do that, I am not that good. I am instead just looking to experiment with my own reloads that can just cycle through my AR. But I was just curious how different loads would feel and would group at my guns current configuration, and that was set at 50 yards with factory ammo.
 
What gun do you have ?
As stated you will waste ammo and time loading for groups with axlot of batch tests.
I also made the mistake of not being very good with iron sights and the use a a so so rifle rest. Also resist the urge to adjust your sights when you do test your loads will save you some ammo.
Once I was able to have consistant groups with factory ammo I started reloading more. I also purchased a Caldwell lead sled. Not the best but far better than a front bag and my rear hand and shoulder.
I then did a simple test of 5 shots each of 3 grain spread. I found over the last few years when it comes to varget 24ish grains seems to work well. My largest gain in small grroup size came with quality bullets. I have shot 1moa groups of the rest with 75gn hornady match bullets several times with a bad day hitting 1.75" group. Now me I would say I'm a sub 4 moa shooter. Shooting prone with sling with a SR1 target I can keep both my ARs in the 10 ring with any decent ammo. Not great but it is a improvement over the last few years. The last cmp shoot I went to I had one of my best prone slow fire groups for the 1st 12 rounds with 12 shots just over 1" with 10 being in the 10 ring 4x what happened after that is pure sucked on my part. Adjust a bit left to get closer to x . Next shot for what ever reason I did a center hold...dahhh what I never do that. Dunped it 12oc highs in the seven ring....I then lost it. Sending the last 7 shots every where?
So stop over thinking load up some bullets of what you got to the data specs for that bullet and see how they do.
My primary load for practice is a 69gn "match" bullet from ppu loaded to magazine length. As is my 75gn hornady I think once I'm chaseing the 10 ring consistantly I will play with heavier and longer bullets for 600 yards. I'm more than sure my rifle and ammo can shoot, I just cant deliver the full potential yet.
 
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Start with a single stage and you'll inevitably get a progressive, probably within a year. Once you are up and running on a progressive you will slap yourself for all the time wasted making blasting ammo on the single stage. You shoot 1200 rounds a year? 150 bucks worth of components and 3 hours time. Bam.

Mike

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2
 
I guess it all comes down to your goals. If all you want to do is make your gun go BANG as cheaply as possible, then you're on the right track. Buy cheap equipment, cheap components, select a powder with the smallest possible charge to cycle your gun, and you're good to go.

Here's the problem with that: It quickly becomes no fun.

Most everybody that stays in the shooting world goes through a kind of evolution. It usually starts with a sense of wonderment and newbie enthusiasm. Just owning guns and going to the range is exciting. You blast away, bring your friends and let them blast away, and it's a great time.

You can only do that for so long before it gets boring. It's human nature to try to get better at whatever you do, and shooting gets boring (and frustrating) real fast if you can't hit what you're pointing the gun at.

You're actually on the right track. Now you can make ammo cheaply enough so that you can practice. Practice is the only way to get better. Start out by going to the range with an experienced shooter to make sure you're your technique is sound, then practice, practice, practice. Dry-firing is great too, and really cheap.

Do this enough and you will get to the point where you can out-shoot your gun and ammo. You'll know this because you'll stop getting better. At that point, you'll want to upgrade your gun, your ammo, or both.

When you're ready to do that, go back and re-read the link that I posted above.
 
Seeing as this is an AR platform thread, I'll repeat some thoughts from another thread.

One AR is never enough and all have their own personality.
You'll end up finding a spring or some other insignificant part laying around and suddenly decide you need to build another AR around it.


And.....they all need ammo.
 
EddieCoyle said:
I guess it all comes down to your goals. If all you want to do is make your gun go BANG as cheaply as possible, then you're on the right track. Buy cheap equipment, cheap components, select a powder with the smallest possible charge to cycle your gun, and you're good to go.

Here's the problem with that: It quickly becomes no fun.




Most everybody that stays in the shooting world goes through a kind of evolution. It usually starts with a sense of wonderment and newbie enthusiasm. Just owning guns and going to the range is exciting. You blast away, bring your friends and let them blast away, and it's a great time.

You can only do that for so long before it gets boring. It's human nature to try to get better at whatever you do, and shooting gets boring (and frustrating) real fast if you can't hit what you're pointing the gun at.

You're actually on the right track. Now you can make ammo cheaply enough so that you can practice. Practice is the only way to get better. Start out by going to the range with an experienced shooter to make sure you're your technique is sound, then practice, practice, practice. Dry-firing is great too, and really cheap.

Do this enough and you will get to the point where you can out-shoot your gun and ammo. You'll know this because you'll stop getting better. At that point, you'll want to upgrade your gun, your ammo, or both.

When you're ready to do that, go back and re-read the link that I posted above.
Click to expand...

This is very true... I cant give enough credit to dry fire exercise and just plinking around the house with the pellet guns. My actual range time is limitted. If it where not for dryfire and my pellet guns my skills will suck even more. 3 years ago I was lucky to shoot my garand in the mid 300s/500 now with dryfire and practice my garands and I can deliver into the 430-450/500 range. My AR is consistantly getting me into the 450s. @ 100 and 200 yards.
 
EddieCoyle said:
I guess it all comes down to your goals. If all you want to do is make your gun go BANG as cheaply as possible, then you're on the right track. Buy cheap equipment, cheap components, select a powder with the smallest possible charge to cycle your gun, and you're good to go.

Here's the problem with that: It quickly becomes no fun.

Most everybody that stays in the shooting world goes through a kind of evolution. It usually starts with a sense of wonderment and newbie enthusiasm. Just owning guns and going to the range is exciting. You blast away, bring your friends and let them blast away, and it's a great time.

You can only do that for so long before it gets boring. It's human nature to try to get better at whatever you do, and shooting gets boring (and frustrating) real fast if you can't hit what you're pointing the gun at.

You're actually on the right track. Now you can make ammo cheaply enough so that you can practice. Practice is the only way to get better. Start out by going to the range with an experienced shooter to make sure you're your technique is sound, then practice, practice, practice. Dry-firing is great too, and really cheap.

Do this enough and you will get to the point where you can out-shoot your gun and ammo. You'll know this because you'll stop getting better. At that point, you'll want to upgrade your gun, your ammo, or both.

When you're ready to do that, go back and re-read the link that I posted above.
Click to expand...

Thanks!

I have thought about your post above a bit more and in excel created a basic spread sheet based on the minimum safe stating load, then increased it each time by the 2% so now I have this:

Varget powder and 55 g bullets and will load 10 each@:24.6g, 25.1g, 25.6g, 26.1g, 26.6g

I got some IMR 4198 and will load 10 each@ 18.4g, 18.8g, 19.1g, 19.5g, 19.9g

Am I on a better track you think?
 
mac1911 said:
I think your wasting time with spread sheets when you should be loading and shooting.....
Click to expand...

I agree. I don't even do load development for my match ammo. Find a good load, make a lot of it, and go to the range.
 
I think your wasting time playing with spread sheets when you should just load up some rounds with 24 grains of varget
 
I agree practice more, shoot more, and train more!

You know, I suck at math so the spread sheet helps me figure out the 2% increments and though I may be wasting my time its all part of the education aspect I think and that goes along hand and hand with the field work.
 
Keep in mind the max loads you're seeing in books are .223 pressures not 5.56. There's usually a fair amount of room to go more if you're using decent brass in a 5.56 gun.

With production powders I wouldn't start below the highest listed min charge from 3 sources. Just wasting powder unless you're making puff loads.
 
crazymjb said:
Start with a single stage and you'll inevitably get a progressive, probably within a year. Once you are up and running on a progressive you will slap yourself for all the time wasted making blasting ammo on the single stage. You shoot 1200 rounds a year? 150 bucks worth of components and 3 hours time. Bam. ...
Click to expand...

Dibs on your (or anyone else's) dis-used single stage (hoping it is a Rock Chucker), or other equipment, as you get bored or lose the fun, and upgrade. We all start somewhere.

My goals are similar to the OP, but to include .38/.357, 9mm, Makarov, and maybe .20 Practical eventually; not in competition level production volumes.
 
Keven said:
Max of 27.5 then starting at a recommended 10% less.
Click to expand...

If there's a minimum listed, use it. The 10% "rule" only applies if they only list a max load.

Load up a dozen with 25.5. If they cycle your rifle reliably load up a bunch more and go shoot. If not, add half a grain and repeat up to the max charge. Don't over-think it.
 
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Coyote33 said:
Dibs on your (or anyone else's) dis-used single stage (hoping it is a Rock Chucker), or other equipment, as you get bored or lose the fun, and upgrade. We all start somewhere.

My goals are similar to the OP, but to include .38/.357, 9mm, Makarov, and maybe .20 Practical eventually; not in competition level production volumes.
Click to expand...

I have plans to start reloading 9mm next, I just washed some brass a week ago, I just need a die set and I may even look into casting my own lead, BUT lead is toxic so I have to weigh that into consideration.

My $28 dollar press is holding up fine so far on 223 brass.
 

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