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Long range rifle suggestions...
- Thread starter Boston_Shooter
- Start date
This
something tells me this is a wee bit out of my price range.
Thanks for all the info guys...I'm gonna do a bit more research and keep you guys posted on what I decide.
J
Jose
Pat, that is true on a known distance square range. But definitely not in some of the more "practical" LR matches I've been going to lately.
Try making a first shot hit on a steel IDPA silhouette at 900 yards with a ravine in between you and the other hillside, no one to mark your shots, no wind flags, and almost no mirage.
To the OP, you want this
Pat, that is true on a known distance square range. But definitely not in some of the more "practical" LR matches I've been going to lately.
Try making a first shot hit on a steel IDPA silhouette at 900 yards with a ravine in between you and the other hillside, no one to mark your shots, no wind flags, and almost no mirage.
To the OP, you want this
Whatcha got there Jose?
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If the bolt is properly timed (most are not) there is no reason to change a 700 extractor. A out of time bolt is going to have poor primary extraction, may have firing pin cocking problems and will most likely suffer accuracy problems. None of which can be fixed by changing the extractor. I have seen sako types blown down the lug race once in the past. The m16 type I have not seen fail. People add a new extractor for the same reasons they add side bolt stops and flute the bolt. The 700 extractor is fine and has been working for many years.
J
Jimmy2Times
Being one of the few people on this site I actually have respect for, and knowing that you actually know how to shoot, I'm hoping you were saying that tongue-in-cheek.
If only long range shooting with optics were so simple. In 30 years, I've shot almost every shooting discipline there is, CMP, IDPA, NRA National Match, Sporting Clays, name it (everything except cowboy shooting), and nothing has ever kept a smile on my face like long range shooting. There's nothing more exciting then a first round hit on a 600 or 800 yard 10" x 10" steel plate. And unfortunately, it's not as simple as putting the crosshair on it and pulling the trigger. Not even my machine guns and DD's are that fun.
I also recommend a Reminton 700, or an AR-10, or if you have deep pockets, as a previous poster said, anything from GAP Precision.
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I don't have a 700 and probably never will unless I get a custom clone to put into a tube gun. I've heard the debate over extractors and tend to favor the keep it simple, but what about this video. I thought it was interesting and thought provoking. Once I saw it, I could recognize that for this particular cartridge and bolt, that it was a huge improvement. Don't know if it is as positive on other cartridges. If he was more aggressive with the bolt throw would it be different? Your thoughts?
B
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My thoughts coming from a field point of view. That is a secondary extraction and ejector problem. A different feed port would solve that problem. Running the bolt harder might solve it but I would guess that it would not be a solid fix. The 700 action was never designed to be used in the way. Not that it can't, but its a tube gun and is what it is. The older Surgeon actions used to have that problem but was fixed with a simple feed port mod. I have never shot a 6mmbr but I have used a 223 wssm quite a bit. Never had any issues with ejection. My thoughts are the 700 action and extractor and ejector work fine. There are better actions with much better designs( see Defiance machine with helical extraction)Defiance, Badger AI. but the 700 simply works. I will see you video and raise you one all in good fun.
If you want it bad enough you can find it or travel.
As to the op's question get a Badger custom or AI if you want the best. If you want to learn to shoot is get a sps tactical or what ever savage you want and spend the other 4k on ammo and shooting time. Its all about how you drive it and not about what you drive.
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I've seen that one before.
![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
In all fairness to that Tubb gun, any rifle can be fuxord by operator error. Been there done it. I'm also pretty sure that the AI action started out as a 300M rifle Malcolm Cooper helped design.
Sure was some wicked wind out where they shoot. I bet it was enough to blow them around in the prone position.
B
fencer
NES Member
I have been very happy with my 700 SPS in .308. They are priced right, put rounds on target and have stood the test of time. I spent more on glass than on the rifle and probably could have gotten away with spending alot less.
J
Jimmy2Times
Pemigawasset Fish and Game, in Holderness, NH (www.pemi.org, you'll piss in your pants when you see what a yearly membership costs)
and Reading Rifle Range in Reading, MA (limited to 600 yards, but still really nice) Reading is a little too fuddy for me, but Pemi is totally awesome. Eventually, we're going to push Pemi to 1000 yards.
This right here is the most intelligent post in this thread. Get your SPS Tac while you can though, because I hear Remington is discontinuing them soon. It's the most bang you can get for ~$550.
If we were talking about ranges beyond even 400yds, I would agree with you. But, the OP specified ranges of 2-300 yds. Any production hunting or varmint type rifle with glass should be able to hit a clay pidgeon at those yardages, and doing so would, to me, get rather boring.
If we are talking about a dedicated, true long-range rifle, for distances of 600yds++, hits are not automatic. You need a combination of good rifle and good shooter, and that type of shooting is fun, glass or irons.
Reading the OP again, I see he did say 2-300 yds and eventually try longer ranges. I would still suggest mastering the iron sights on the AR for all yardages up to 600yds.
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Does the Rem SPS only come in 20" ?
I definitely plan on practicing and master with iron sights...but since I see a lot of new expenses in my near future, this is going to be a chance to get one last thing for a little while at least. I already have 5 handguns, 2 AR's, and a shotgun....I've always been interested in long range shooting (600-1000 yards) but I realize I should get better at 2-300 first. This is also why I wanted a rifle that I could learn on and then move on to the longer distances. I'm going to look into the gun Jose recommended this week...
I think that Howa is an excellent choice for a scoped, long-range rifle.
P.S. I've never shot anything with a scope over 300yds, so listen to Jose and Brian and their suggestions.
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Here is a little story about my factory rifle and my shooting experience last week at Scarborough F&Gs 600 yard F-Class match. I came in dead last. I was just putting this thing through the paces at 600. I thought I shot reasonably well.
The rifle -
M70 Winchester .308
26 inch 1/12 barrel - fire lapped
H&S Stock with an aluminum bedding block - skim coated with bisonite bedding compound
Leup. 4.5X14 in Badger rings on a 20 MOA base
Versa pod and Bald Eagle rear bag.
The match -
Three six hundred yard matches. Twenty shots each at 600 yards on the 1/2 moa F-class target. That means the X ring is 3 inches and the 10 ring is six inches. So if you have a MOA rifle, you should be able to keep them all in the 10 ring, right?![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
Not really. At least I couldn't. The target is a bitch.
The ammo -
Sierra 180 HPBTs
Varget Powder
No. 34 mil spec. equivalent primer
LC91 Cases
Here is a pic of how it shoots at 200 yards. .94 moa at 200 yards. This was with 168s but the 180s are about the same.
And another one - .768 moa.
This is basically a nice tweaked factory rifle and it shoots very well. It's a noob gun and wont come close to competing against purpose built rifles at long range. Here is the damage.
Match 1 - 184-3x
Match 2 - 182-2x
Match 3 - 183-0x
The top F-TR shooter was about ten points ahead of me on each match and the top F-Open shooter only dropped six points the whole day.![[shocked]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/007.gif "Shocked [shocked]")
Here are his scores.
Match 1 - 199-11x
Match 2 - 199-13x
Match 3 - 196-10x
I guess it depends on what you want to do with your rifle. Factory rifles and nice. Some are very nice, and with rare exceptions like the top end Savage rifles, against guns with premium parts [barrels, stocks, triggers, optics] they are left in the dust.
Talk of un-bedded rifles is not even serious. Total noob guns only good for parts imo.
B
The rifle -
M70 Winchester .308
26 inch 1/12 barrel - fire lapped
H&S Stock with an aluminum bedding block - skim coated with bisonite bedding compound
Leup. 4.5X14 in Badger rings on a 20 MOA base
Versa pod and Bald Eagle rear bag.
The match -
Three six hundred yard matches. Twenty shots each at 600 yards on the 1/2 moa F-class target. That means the X ring is 3 inches and the 10 ring is six inches. So if you have a MOA rifle, you should be able to keep them all in the 10 ring, right?
Not really. At least I couldn't. The target is a bitch.The ammo -
Sierra 180 HPBTs
Varget Powder
No. 34 mil spec. equivalent primer
LC91 Cases
Here is a pic of how it shoots at 200 yards. .94 moa at 200 yards. This was with 168s but the 180s are about the same.
And another one - .768 moa.
This is basically a nice tweaked factory rifle and it shoots very well. It's a noob gun and wont come close to competing against purpose built rifles at long range. Here is the damage.
Match 1 - 184-3x
Match 2 - 182-2x
Match 3 - 183-0x
The top F-TR shooter was about ten points ahead of me on each match and the top F-Open shooter only dropped six points the whole day.
Here are his scores.
Match 1 - 199-11x
Match 2 - 199-13x
Match 3 - 196-10x
I guess it depends on what you want to do with your rifle. Factory rifles and nice. Some are very nice, and with rare exceptions like the top end Savage rifles, against guns with premium parts [barrels, stocks, triggers, optics] they are left in the dust.
Talk of un-bedded rifles is not even serious. Total noob guns only good for parts imo.
B
![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
LoL, no it was some guy from Vermont. I shit you not, the gun this guy has shoot two inches of vertical at 600 yards (for 20 shots). The thing was phenomenal. It was a 6mmBR.
I know John's is just as good, but he botched his last match. I think he was shooting another rifle and the thing lost a bullet in the lands and dumped a bunch of powder out into the action. He was down six after the second match.
B
I know John's is just as good, but he botched his last match. I think he was shooting another rifle and the thing lost a bullet in the lands and dumped a bunch of powder out into the action. He was down six after the second match.
B
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Soft seating... Tisk Tisk.
Savage 10fp, or R700. Get one in .223 to save on ammo. A 24' heavy barrel will give you enough velocity to be accurate out to 800 or so with factory match ammo. By the time your skill gets to that point you will know exactly what you want and can build up a cheap base model 308 with a nice stock, bolt, barrel, action, etc
You need to figure out what you want to play with for a game or discipline first. Then you need to determine what the budget will be to do what you want to. After that, you need to find the right base to start with. That will be the hardest/longest part of the search to find the appropriate stick to start with. After that, the rest is money and good info to spec it out right.
My dilemma was after the new person was sworn in as POTUS that I have a can of M118LR that doesn't have a rifle to shoot it. Sure, the SAR-48 ( FAL ) can shoot it, but not to the level that the round is capable of. I started looking for a .308 bolt gun to shoot this stuff. I eventually found a pre-accutrigger Savage Model 10 in a shop in RI for $395 total. The rifle is in good shape and I started to equip it with decent parts but not overly expensive parts. Glass is a rear parallax SWFA SS 10x scope and the stock is a Bell and Carlson Medalist. The base is a Ken Farrell 20 MOA and the rings are Burris XTR's. The rifle will shoot under an inch at 100yds with Federal GM 168 grain or Black Hills stuff if I do my part. The horrible Savage trigger was replaced with a Rifle Basix SAV-1 and it's a big improvement. For around $1000 or so, it gets the job done if I do my part.
My wish list is one of the Sako TRG's or one of the custom GA rifles but I don't want to spend that much money on something I can't use around here in NE.
Joe R.
My dilemma was after the new person was sworn in as POTUS that I have a can of M118LR that doesn't have a rifle to shoot it. Sure, the SAR-48 ( FAL ) can shoot it, but not to the level that the round is capable of. I started looking for a .308 bolt gun to shoot this stuff. I eventually found a pre-accutrigger Savage Model 10 in a shop in RI for $395 total. The rifle is in good shape and I started to equip it with decent parts but not overly expensive parts. Glass is a rear parallax SWFA SS 10x scope and the stock is a Bell and Carlson Medalist. The base is a Ken Farrell 20 MOA and the rings are Burris XTR's. The rifle will shoot under an inch at 100yds with Federal GM 168 grain or Black Hills stuff if I do my part. The horrible Savage trigger was replaced with a Rifle Basix SAV-1 and it's a big improvement. For around $1000 or so, it gets the job done if I do my part.
My wish list is one of the Sako TRG's or one of the custom GA rifles but I don't want to spend that much money on something I can't use around here in NE.
Joe R.
Savage makes the 12BVSS. Go to the Savage webpage and have a look. I prefer them to the FP10 as the tupperware stock on the FP is kinda thin and "chintzy". They are very accurate and for a mid-priced out-of-the-box rifle it will likely suit your needs. If you choose this in a .223 chambering, I don't believe they offer it in anything tighter than a 1in 9 twist, so you won't wanna go with any bullets that are too heavy or shoot too far beyond 300 yds. If you want a Savage .223 in a 1in 7, you gotta travel further up the ladder and spend more money. Get one in .308 and you'll have no worries shooting beyond 300 yds, but it will be a tad more expensive to reload.
The 12BVSS is gonna be my next bolt gun
Like PatMcD said, don't be afraid to run out and use that AR15, either.
The 12BVSS is gonna be my next bolt gun
Like PatMcD said, don't be afraid to run out and use that AR15, either.
