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Lexington/Concord (Harvard) Appleseed 19/20 April

Just to anticipate the first few questions:

Bring at least 400 rounds and your most reliable rifle. Yes, you can use your bolt action whatever it is - but be warned: you will be shooting in timed rounds. We have had people shoot Rifleman with bolt-action rifles, so it can be done. It's just harder than with a semi-auto.

Yes, you can shoot a .22. Or a .460 Weatherby Magnum, or anything in between, as long as it's RELIABLE, and you can shoot 400 shots in a weekend with it (I'd recommend against the .460...). Also be aware that you'll need to reload it quickly; stripper clips & extra magazines are a good thing. We're teaching (among other things) you to be a Rifleman... and shooting skill will translate from gun to gun. The reason I stress reliable is that with an unreliable rifle, you'll be fussing with it and not learning. We want you to get the most out of the weekend that you can get!

Typical rifles you'll see on the line are AR-15s, M1 Garands, M1As, and Ruger 10/22s. If you want to do this with a Mosin-Nagant, a Lee-Enfield, an 03-A3, an AK-47 or an SKS - No problem although it will help if the rifle has adjustable sights - we will be teaching about inches-minutes-clicks, and some rifles don't have sights that are easily adjustable.

We shoot rain or shine - be prepared for rain!

Some very good info on what we call a Liberty Training Rifle here. Basically a modified 10/22 - easily done by most folks.

What should I bring? How should I prepare? Go to www.appleseedinfo.org and hold your mouse over the word Appleseed in the upper left corner - several good articles there.
 
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Actually, you had better plan on having 500 rounds. We have been known to shoot over 400 rounds. IIRC, the round count at Proctor was about 450.

Yes, we shoot, a LOT.

A reliable, maintained (as in cleaned, checked and zeroed) is a real asset at an Appleseed.

As to mag requirements, you will likely be doing some strings of fire that consist up to 40 rounds in 5 or 6 minutes. So, try to have enough mags to hold 40 rounds. If you have a tube mag .22, we'll work with you.
 
You CAN come only one day if you want, but you'll get much more out of it if you come both days. If you attend only one day, you'd probably get more out of Saturday, since that's when the more basic instruction occurs - Sunday we work on "polishing" what you've learned on Saturday.
 
bob999 said:
Are there any restrictions on who can enter. This sounds like a lot of fun.
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Uh... I think that you have to be old enough to hold the rifle. Honestly, I'll have to get back to you on that one. I've never heard of any.
GaryO said:
Dwarven, Is it all right to be a spectator to get the feel of things?
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Wow... another difficult one. Again, I don't know - I've never been asked that! I wouldn't think that there'd be a problem, but I'll have to check.

Why not shoot? Totalled, it'll cost $100 or less if you sign up in advance for the weekend between the Appleseed Shoot fee and a $12 box of Federal or Remington .22LR. Some of the cheapest instruction you'll ever get... and worth 3 or 4 times the price, too. There ARE a few mods we recommend to your rifle to get the most out of the instruction (click-adjustable sights and a sling are the two most important), but you don't have to have them.
 
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Well, there are some REASONABLE restrictions. Ross pretty well summed up the minimum age. As long as they can fire the rifle, and go through the functions with it, they're big enough. We'll even put the rifle on bags if they need it. If the ycan't do the whole day, no problem. I don't remember the youngest Appleseeder yet, but it's somewhere around 7. Not optimum, but acceptable. We've has 11 and 12 year olds do just fine. They are old enough to take full advantage of the course.

Spectator? Yup, but you'll have to sign a liability waiver just like the students.

But why spectate? Pre-register on line for $70 (plus the $1.75 admin fee), pay your range fees ($20 max), bring a .22 and a 550 round brick of Federal from Wally World ($12), and join in.

Don't have a .22? Well, I've got a few loaners, something like 8 of them, and they will be there. The other Instructors have rifles they bring you may be able to borrow as well.

The loaners I have are 4 - 10/22 Carbines with Tech Sights, 2 - 10/22's with scopes (1 International, 1 Rifle with long barrel), a Remington 513T with target sights and a Wincchester 190 with scope.

You should be able to do most, if not all of the course with a .22 rifle.

And, for just over $100 and 2 days of your time, you'll learn what you need to know to become an Expert Rifleman. You may not make it to that level that weekend, but you'll leave with the tools (knowledge) to get yourself there. Most folks need 2 Appleseeds to get it all down to memory.

It's the least expensive QUALITY Rifle Training you'll find. And you may even get to meet the infamous Fred himself.
 
OK, question for somebody that knows Mass law.

What can and can't be broughtin from out of state?

I know post ban high cap mags are a no-go, as is a post ban rifle with the "dreaded evil features" that were banned by the Federal AWB (now expired).

What else?
 
Nickle said:
OK, question for somebody that knows Mass law.

What can and can't be broughtin from out of state?

I know post ban high cap mags are a no-go, as is a post ban rifle with the "dreaded evil features" that were banned by the Federal AWB (now expired).

What else?
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Handguns are RIGHT OUT without a MA non-resident permit. Double-edged knives are illegal, as are brass knuckles, manriki-gusari and the dreaded "slung shot". Whatever that is. So... you can bring a rifle, but not your slingshot (as I'm sure most cops don't know the difference).
 
dwarven1 said:
Handguns are RIGHT OUT without a MA non-resident permit. Double-edged knives are illegal, as are brass knuckles, manriki-gusari and the dreaded "slung shot". Whatever that is. So... you can bring a rifle, but not your slingshot (as I'm sure most cops don't know the difference).
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Sling shots aren't legal? Man, I had one in the back of my trunk for 5 years. I'm such a menace! I think you also forgot post-ban lowers with evil pre-ban features and mags > 10 rds that aren't pre-ban. [EDIT: Oops, Nickle mentioned them]

IIRC, [is this under the AWB?] threaded barrels that don't have something permanently attached are a no-no and the reason I probably will need to skip out on this this Appleseed.

What if you were going to a Pistol competition in MA or are you out of luck?
 
doobie said:
What if you were going to a Pistol competition in MA or are you out of luck?
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There's an exception to the licensing requirement for competition. This is how members without a MA LTC can attend members shoots. There's a competition of some kind held at the shoot, and fliers are made available to those without a MA LTC.

I'm believe that this exemption does NOT apply to the AWB. So, preban features on postban guns and post ban hi-caps are still a no no.
 
Nickle said:
Doobie, bring a 10/22 and a bunch of ammo. Shoot for less, have as much or more fun.

And, I have a fair amount of loaner rifles (.22's) I'm bringing down with me.
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Maybe, but I'm planning doing the three VT Appleseed's. So unless my financially look a lot better as it gets closer, I think I'll take a break at this one.
 
jar said:
There's a competition of some kind held at the shoot, and fliers are made available to those without a MA LTC.

I'm believe that this exemption does NOT apply to the AWB. So, preban features on postban guns and post ban hi-caps are still a no no.
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Correct; it does not.

So we need a competition... Gee, I think we can find an extra target or two.
 
Im pretty new to rifle shooting and have a "new to me" AR-15. Id really like to use that instead of my 10/22, but I dont want to be the only person on the firing line with a centerfire rifle. Do you have any sense about the mix of center v. rimfire rifles that will be used?
 
ELW, it doesn't matter what anyone else shoots - you shoot what YOU want to shoot. We recommend the 10/22 because it's cheap to shoot and the recoil is minimal, which lends itself well to shooting all weekend.

If you can bring 500 rounds of .223 with you, if your rifle is zeroed and reliable, then by all means, bring it and shoot it! I do want to emphasize the reliable part, though - if your rifle has problems, get them worked out first. If you're futzing with the rifle, you won't get the full benefit of the program since you'll be more worrying about the rifle than your marksmanship.

At my first shoot, there were M1s, M1As, SKSs, 10/22s, FALs, and an AK-47. Don't worry about what anyone will think about what you're shooting; I guarantee you that everyone else will be worrying more about how they're shooting!
 
dwarven1 said:
That's up to Harvard - if the club waives the fee for us members, then no, we don't. Possibly something we should ask tomorrow night at the annual meeting?
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If a member has to pay the range fee,something is terribly wrong.

I'll see you guys there anyway,I'm there every Saturday so I'll be sure to stop by and say hello.
 
Is their a maximum number allowed? Reason I ask is that I don't get paid until the first of the month and won't be able to register until then. Also, if a person can't get to the range and get a good zero before the event, is that a huge issue? I have a friend who's interested and we've been trying all winter to get a good day to get his rifle zeroed and it's not worked out yet.
 
Limitations on Sights?

Obviously, iron sights are good and one of the posts said scopes.

But, what are the limitations on sights, e.g., red-dot, 4x or higher scopes, lasers, etc.?
 
Chris said:
Is their a maximum number allowed? Reason I ask is that I don't get paid until the first of the month and won't be able to register until then. Also, if a person can't get to the range and get a good zero before the event, is that a huge issue? I have a friend who's interested and we've been trying all winter to get a good day to get his rifle zeroed and it's not worked out yet.
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Chris, if we fill up the range we're using, we will be able to put shooters on another range - we're scheduled to have several instructors, INCLUDING FRED! Sign up when you can; we'll FIND room for you!

If your friend can't zero his rifle before hand, bring it anyway - we'll show him how to zero it there. (just remember my pet peeve: make sure it's reliable! I got caught with a crotchety rifle once and I was miserable until Nickle loaned me an LTR.)
 
P-14 said:
But, what are the limitations on sights, e.g., red-dot, 4x or higher scopes, lasers, etc.?
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From http://www.appleseedinfo.org/as_faq.htm

What is Project Appleseed?
It's a program designed to train people in basic rifle marksmanship using rack-grade rifles and surplus ball ammo; as well as a program to revitalize the tradition of the Rifleman. Once you become a Rifleman, you'll be able to, with an iron-sighted rack-grade rifle, make head shots at 250 yards, and body hits at 500 yards — all as a result of the 25m marksmanship training you'll receive at an Appleseed shoot, followed by battlesight zeroing at 300 yards.

What kind of rifle do I need? What kind of sights are allowed?
Appleseed is content-free, so in regards to sights: you can use any. Rifles? Well, you can use any safe firearm which can be accurately shot from the shoulder, from a .22 to a .32 (8mm). We're semi-auto and bolt-gun friendly. The important thing is that it works, so before you come to a shoot make sure you clean it, break it in (if need be), and lube it properly in preparation for the day.
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I think that you'll get more out of the program with the iron sights, as that is what the instruction is geared towards. After all, it's easier to use a scope than iron sights, and even easier to use a laser... but will your laser work out to 500 yards? Your iron sights will.

If you have vision problems (like I do), scopes are fine but we recommend the lower power scopes. Remember you're going to be shooting this at 25 meters at the shoot.
 
Does anyone have any experience with the 22in barrel 10/22's from Walmart? Are they more accurate than the 18.5 inch ones that most other places sell? It looks like they're about $40 more than the shorter barrel'd ones.
 

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