Lever Action Questions

[AngelKing]

So Im thinking of building my SHTF scenario weapons as companion pieces. I have the 686, and am actively seeking out a .357 carbine to go along with it.

From what I've read, apparently I can't use round nose FMJ - fine, I don't normally use that unless its practice....anything else I need to know? I'm trying to make an ultra reliable weapons system that goes bang when I fire it.

And yes, I know, I know, I need a semi rifle for SHTF, working on that too, but for now...

 

[TheCrowing]

I've heard good things about the Henry Big Boy. Check it out.

 

[bfm]

Most round nosed rounds are just fine, though something witha a meplat is better. Just nothing pointy, unless it is one of the leverlution type where the point is a polymer tip.

 

[whacko]

So Im thinking of building my SHTF scenario weapons as companion pieces. I have the 686, and am actively seeking out a .357 carbine to go along with it.

From what I've read, apparently I can't use round nose FMJ - fine, I don't normally use that unless its practice....anything else I need to know? I'm trying to make an ultra reliable weapons system that goes bang when I fire it.

And yes, I know, I know, I need a semi rifle for SHTF, working on that too, but for now...

You are thinking in the right direction. Lever guns are great and to be able to have one that is chambered in your primary handgun caliber is a concept. Also lever guns are quite a fast cycling fire arm with practice. I own only one in 22lr but am constantly looking for a good deal on a center fire lever gun. I'll pull the trigger on one soon enough.

 

[JRT]

So Im thinking of building my SHTF scenario weapons as companion pieces. I have the 686, and am actively seeking out a .357 carbine to go along with it.

From what I've read, apparently I can't use round nose FMJ - fine, I don't normally use that unless its practice....anything else I need to know? I'm trying to make an ultra reliable weapons system that goes bang when I fire it.

And yes, I know, I know, I need a semi rifle for SHTF, working on that too, but for now...

I have one of these, Marlin 1894. Mine is SS but I guess they don't make it in SS anymore, here is the link to blue. This thing is almost permanently mounted to my ATV and it has been beat to crap. Still super accurate and functions perfect.

http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Firearms/1894centerfire/1894C.asp

I shoot mostly hollow points through it and I have never had a problem, cheap aluminum stuff or high quality PD ammo, its all good.

 

[Zappa]

So Im thinking of building my SHTF scenario weapons as companion pieces. I have the 686, and am actively seeking out a .357 carbine to go along with it.

From what I've read, apparently I can't use round nose FMJ - fine, I don't normally use that unless its practice

Who says you can't use round nose bullets in a tube fed lever action ????
Round nose, flat point, SWC or hollow points are perfectly fine for use in tube magazine rifles, what you can't use is spire point.
But pointed tip revolver caliber bullets are extremely rare so you likely won't come across any such bullets anyway.
However, there are some pointed bullets on the market made specifically for use in tube fed rifles with a soft rubbery plastic tip called "Leverlevolution".

In rifle calibers, you'll notice that there are no factory made spire point cartridges in .30-30.
This is because the ammo manufacturers expect these to be used in tube fed lever guns.
I load spire points in .30-30 myself, but I load them for use in a single shot Contender.

 

[whacko]

Who says you can't use round nose bullets in a tube fed lever action ????
Round nose, flat point, SWC or hollow points are perfectly fine for use in tube magazine rifles, what you can't use is spire point.
But pointed tip revolver caliber bullets are extremely rare so you likely won't come across any such bullets anyway.
However, there are some pointed bullets on the market made specifically for use in tube fed rifles with a soft rubbery plastic tip called "Leverlevolution".


In rifle calibers, you'll notice that there are no factory made spire point cartridges in .30-30.
This is because the ammo manufacturers expect these to be used in tube fed lever guns.
I load spire points in .30-30 myself, but I load them for use in a single shot Contender.

WOw I'm going to hijack this thread for a minute because Zappa jumped in and I know from reading his stuff he is a lever gun guru. I'm thinking of getting a big bore lever gun........I've noticed that browning makes them in 30-06 springfield. Being as I already own an M1 garand I was thinkinig of checking them out........so you are saying that a standard ball ammo (pointed) that the M1 garand uses is ok in a lever action tube fed gun? I suppose it would be or why else would browing make a lever gun in that caliber........what are your thoughts of the browing levers in 30-06?

 

[irishfan]

Cheap...but I have a Rossi 38/357 in 16in barrel. Very fun to use along w the model 10. Shooting 38s feels like nothing. Fun guns, decent capacity, accurate. It is a cheaper one, but I have not had a single issue using a ton of different 38 and 357 ammo. Always goes bang

 

[Tundra02]

WOw I'm going to hijack this thread for a minute because Zappa jumped in and I know from reading his stuff he is a lever gun guru. I'm thinking of getting a big bore lever gun........I've noticed that browning makes them in 30-06 springfield. Being as I already own an M1 garand I was thinkinig of checking them out........so you are saying that a standard ball ammo (pointed) that the M1 garand uses is ok in a lever action tube fed gun? I suppose it would be or why else would browing make a lever gun in that caliber........what are your thoughts of the browing levers in 30-06?

The Browning lever action rifle ( BLR ) is a magazine fed rifle not tubular .

 

[whacko]

The Browning lever action rifle ( BLR ) is a magazine fed rifle not tubular .

I was just going to edit my post as I went to the browing site to look at the details and found that out........Browning states the bax mag is specifically to allow chambering in spire pointed ballistic ammunition. THanks.

 

[AngelKing]

I Probably saw it in one of the gun reviews I saw for lever actions - said something about bullets in the tube, that if you cram the round noses against the primer to the next bullet, it will explode.

Who says you can't use round nose bullets in a tube fed lever action ????
Round nose, flat point, SWC or hollow points are perfectly fine for use in tube magazine rifles, what you can't use is spire point.
But pointed tip revolver caliber bullets are extremely rare so you likely won't come across any such bullets anyway.
However, there are some pointed bullets on the market made specifically for use in tube fed rifles with a soft rubbery plastic tip called "Leverlevolution".

In rifle calibers, you'll notice that there are no factory made spire point cartridges in .30-30.
This is because the ammo manufacturers expect these to be used in tube fed lever guns.
I load spire points in .30-30 myself, but I load them for use in a single shot Contender.

 

[Zappa]

WOw I'm going to hijack this thread for a minute because Zappa jumped in and I know from reading his stuff he is a lever gun guru. I'm thinking of getting a big bore lever gun........I've noticed that browning makes them in 30-06 springfield. Being as I already own an M1 garand I was thinkinig of checking them out........so you are saying that a standard ball ammo (pointed) that the M1 garand uses is ok in a lever action tube fed gun? I suppose it would be or why else would browing make a lever gun in that caliber........what are your thoughts of the browing levers in 30-06?

No, I said pointed tip ammo is NOT to be used in guns with Tube Magazines.
The only exception is the "Leverevolution" rounds, which have a soft point and will not touch off the primer of the round in front of it.

The rifle caliber Browning lever guns I'm familiar with use detachable box magazines, not tubes, and any bullet profile is OK with box magazines.

 

[DW357]

Get a henry big boy, I love mine. Heavy but reliable and gorgeous looking gun. Don't have much experience with the Rossi's or Marlin's.

 

[Zappa]

I Probably saw it in one of the gun reviews I saw for lever actions - said something about bullets in the tube, that if you cram the round noses against the primer to the next bullet, it will explode.

I've never heard of this happening with round nose bullets.
The nose it too wide and blunt to touch off the primer of the next round in a tube magazine.
This is why you'll find factory loaded .30-30's in both round nose and flat nose, but NOT spire point.

 

[aeromarine]

In rifle calibers, you'll notice that there are no factory made spire point cartridges in .30-30.
This is because the ammo manufacturers expect these to be used in tube fed lever guns.
I load spire points in .30-30 myself, but I load them for use in a single shot Contender.

Actually, you can still find a lot of factory loaded 30-30 cartridges with Spitzer ("spire") tipped bullets on gun shop shelves. Typically, they're in 150 grain and were made for use in bolt action rifles of the type Stevens and Savage made years ago (Models 325C and 340). They used to be quite common. I learned that after carelessly picking up a box of Remington 30-30 ammo for my Marlin 336 and it turned out to have Spitzer tipped bullet. Those got fired single shot!

 

[Zappa]

Actually, you can still find a lot of factory loaded 30-30 cartridges with Spitzer ("spire") tipped bullets on gun shop shelves. Typically, they're in 150 grain and were made for use in bolt action rifles of the type Stevens and Savage made years ago (Models 325C and 340). They used to be quite common. I learned that after carelessly picking up a box of Remington 30-30 ammo for my Marlin 336 and it turned out to have Spitzer tipped bullet. Those got fired single shot!

Those bolt action .30-30's haven't been made in decades.
How old is the ammo you're looking at because I haven't seen any factory loaded .30-30 Spitzers since the 80's.

 

[lancecolonel]

i can tell you that a marlin 1894 does not like to feed semi wadcutters. but the 1894 is a gorgeous gun if you can find one in .38/.357

 

[Zappa]

i can tell you that a marlin 1894 does not like to feed semi wadcutters. but the 1894 is a gorgeous gun if you can find one in .38/.357

SWC's are not the best choice for lever guns, my own Marlin 1894C hangs up a bit cycling them, but it handles them much better than the Rossi and Winchester 1892 models.
I mentioned them in my first post as an example of a round which is safe for use in tube magazines, but they wouldn't be my first choice for actual usage.

 

[one-eyed Jack]

i can tell you that a marlin 1894 does not like to feed semi wadcutters. but the 1894 is a gorgeous gun if you can find one in .38/.357

My 8 yo grandson has one and loves it. His uncle in AK gave it to him as a "reward" for shooting a bear. I load 125gr hollow point jacketed bullets in .357 cases for him. Jack.

 

[enbloc]

AngelKing, just remember by getting into lever-actions and revolvers you will be ahead of the curve when Mass bans mag-fed firearms and the guns you bought will go up in value HUGE...

~Matt

 

[MaxStravinsky]

I've got a Ruger 77/357. It shoots 357 and 38's beautifully. I don't like lever actions (won't get into why), the Ruger is a bolt action.

I was thinking along the same line as the Op. I've got a 642, 686 and the Ruger 77/357.

 

[Spanz]

lever action are fun to hunt with, etc. But if it were a real SHTF situation, a bolt action will be more reliable. There are a lot of levers and gizmos moving in a lever action, especially if it is a higher power rifle.

If you wanted to have only one type of ammo needed, maybe a lever action 44 mag (henry, marlin, rossi) in stainless, and a 44 mag revolver as back up?

 

[mark056]

WOw I'm going to hijack this thread for a minute because Zappa jumped in and I know from reading his stuff he is a lever gun guru. I'm thinking of getting a big bore lever gun........I've noticed that browning makes them in 30-06 springfield. Being as I already own an M1 garand I was thinkinig of checking them out........so you are saying that a standard ball ammo (pointed) that the M1 garand uses is ok in a lever action tube fed gun? I suppose it would be or why else would browing make a lever gun in that caliber........what are your thoughts of the browing levers in 30-06?

Browning lever guns are magazine and not tube fed, as were Savages.

 

[AngelKing]

Ive got the 686, which is my current EDC - I wanted something to be compatible with it and saw the levers as a good choice...

lever action are fun to hunt with, etc. But if it were a real SHTF situation, a bolt action will be more reliable. There are a lot of levers and gizmos moving in a lever action, especially if it is a higher power rifle.

If you wanted to have only one type of ammo needed, maybe a lever action 44 mag (henry, marlin, rossi) in stainless, and a 44 mag revolver as back up?

 

[hminsky]

I have the Rossi in .357, and it is a little picky about shooting .38 specials. It's not that they don't feed, but that if they are flat point, it sometimes ejects the live round as it chambers it. It works fine with round nose lead bullets. But seems to be a little sensitive to cartidge length.

 

[USMA-82]

I'm thinking of getting a big bore lever gun........

Another big bore lever-action option if you like older guns: Winchester 88. It came in several calibers, but most were in .308 win. Four-round magazine, manufactured from 1955 to 1973.

 

[whacko]

Another big bore lever-action option if you like older guns: Winchester 88. It came in several calibers, but most were in .308 win. Four-round magazine, manufactured from 1955 to 1973.

Thanks......I'm trying to look at all options out there before I settle on one. I do like the idea of the browning only because it can be had in 30-06 which I already purchase for my M1. Mu uncle has a marlin in .308 and I have fired it a few times........very nice gun.....he has taken many deer with it up in NH.

 

[jpm]

the Marlin 1894 carbine doesn't feed 38 specials reliably, but feeds 357mag just fine if you plan to use 38 specials in it at all

Round point, flat point, etc are just fine in lever guns, its the full metal pointy tips you find on rifle ammo that is a problem. You don't find those on pistol caliber rounds

 

[Nectaris]

Anyone know what kind of velocity increase you see when comparing a .357 shot from a revolver and a rifle? When you look at a manufacturers specs for a typical revolver round what are they shooting it out of to determine it's velocity? I would imagine a nice velocity difference between the rifle and the revolver that vents so much gas from behind the round.

 

[whacko]

Anyone know what kind of velocity increase you see when comparing a .357 shot from a revolver and a rifle? When you look at a manufacturers specs for a typical revolver round what are they shooting it out of to determine it's velocity? I would imagine a nice velocity difference between the rifle and the revolver that vents so much gas from behind the round.

barrel length	Cor Bon 110 gr. JHP	Cor Bon 125 gr. JHP	Cor Bon 140 gr. JHP	Cor Bon 125 gr. DPX	Federal 125 gr. JHP	Federal 158 gr. JHP	Federal 130 gr. Hydra-Shok JHP low recoil	Federal 158 gr. Hydra-Shok JHP
18"	1718	2113	1941	1936	2072	1719	2017	1721
17"	1686	2067	1947	1907	2026	1689	2009	1712
16"	1790	2119	2004	1946	2051	1739	2044	1741
15"	1728	2069	1942	1915	2032	1708	2012	1718
14"	1691	2054	1933	1897	2017	1732	1993	1715
13"	1682	2024	1916	1885	1979	1674	1984	1687
12"	1725	1994	1851	1858	1945	1654	1934	1679
11"	1667	1978	1814	1831	1973	1643	1922	1671
10"	1619	1943	1802	1804	1943	1630	1922	1638
9"	1615	1901	1745	1779	1881	1563	1812	1586
8"	1600	1851	1717	1728	1817	1570	1810	1593
7"	1578	1784	1671	1682	1784	1516	1765	1536
6"	1461	1715	1580	1648	1702	1465	1662	1485
5"	1377	1614	1493	1552	1571	1373	1586	1402
4"	1286	1496	1394	1471	1511	1293	1453	1332
3"	1109	1257	1172	1271	1255	1102	1194	1122
2"	928	904	911	1050	949	858	919	914