Letter to chief?

[dcmdon]

Knuckle -

Great points. Except that your understanding of CT law is just a bit behind the times.

Lets start with the most basic point. You are correct. No license is necessary to possess any kind of firearm in CT, be it a pistol, rifle, AW, or even machine gun.

However, since PA 13-3 passed post Sandy Hook, a pistol permit or long gun permit (same standards except for training) has been necessary to BUY OR RECEIVE a firearm. So you can possess, but you can't buy without a permit.

This is a subtle difference, that I'm sure isn't lost on you. But for some other readers, it means that you can let your license expire, or move into the state with firearms and not have to worry. In fact without a long gun purchase licene you can still do anythign you want with a long gun.

But I think where CT' may run afoul of the law in this post Heller / MacDonald world is the necessity for a license to purchase.

Does denying someone the right to purchase, deny them the ability to possess? I don't know.

Don

p.s. one other twist. The CT DESPP is telling people who do not have a long gun purchase certificate that it is LEGAL for them to purchase long guns in other states, likeNH and bring it into CT.

PA 13-3 says that no person may "purchase ..any long gun unless such person holds a valid long gun eligibility certificate ..(or)a valid permit to carry a pistol or revolver"

Federal law allows you to buy a long gun out of state if it is legal for you to possess in your home state. So all people have to do to avoid the need for a LGC or PP if they want to buy a long gun in CT is drive to NH. Crazy.

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

Knuckle -

Great points. Except that your understanding of CT law is just a bit behind the times.

Lets start with the most basic point. You are correct. No license is necessary to possess any kind of firearm in CT, be it a pistol, rifle, AW, or even machine gun.

However, since PA 13-3 passed post Sandy Hook, a pistol permit or long gun permit (same standards except for training) has been necessary to BUY OR RECEIVE a firearm. So you can possess, but you can't buy without a permit.

This is a subtle difference, that I'm sure isn't lost on you. But for some other readers, it means that you can let your license expire, or move into the state with firearms and not have to worry. In fact without a long gun purchase licene you can still do anythign you want with a long gun.

But I think where CT' may run afoul of the law in this post Heller / MacDonald world is the necessity for a license to purchase.

Does denying someone the right to purchase, deny them the ability to possess? I don't know.

Don

p.s. one other twist. The CT DESPP is telling people who do not have a long gun purchase certificate that it is LEGAL for them to purchase long guns in other states, likeNH and bring it into CT.

PA 13-3 says that no person may "purchase ..any long gun unless such person holds a valid long gun eligibility certificate ..(or)a valid permit to carry a pistol or revolver"

Federal law allows you to buy a long gun out of state if it is legal for you to possess in your home state. So all people have to do to avoid the need for a LGC or PP if they want to buy a long gun in CT is drive to NH. Crazy.

Don,

Thank you for the clarifications. I'm sure this is helpful for many of us.

Your post-Sandy Hook changes to bring you (sadly) closer to Massachusetts in one respect. The fact that you cannot purchase a firearm without obtaining that permit certainly opens up new avenues for redress if PDs are not following the law in issuing those permits. That's bad for the citizens of CT, but it's potentially good from a litigation perspective. However, you'd still ahead of us when it comes to simple possession. It doesn't appear that a PD can F with people the way they can in MA just by suspending a licenses or refusing to renew it. That's a huge problem here and a source of most of the abuse.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Don,

Thank you for the clarifications. I'm sure this is helpful for many of us.

Your post-Sandy Hook changes to bring you (sadly) closer to Massachusetts in one respect. The fact that you cannot purchase a firearm without obtaining that permit certainly opens up new avenues for redress if PDs are not following the law in issuing those permits. That's bad for the citizens of CT, but it's potentially good from a litigation perspective. However, you'd still ahead of us when it comes to simple possession. It doesn't appear that a PD can F with people the way they can in MA just by suspending a licenses or refusing to renew it. That's a huge problem here and a source of most of the abuse.

Not to mention that MGL REQUIRES that a PD confiscate everything if they deny you or suspend for any reason. If they immediately ship to the "Bonded Warehouse" (to be spiteful, to teach someone "a lesson") it's a real double screwing, potentially costing some $10K-100K depending on the value of their collection.

 

[ma-hole]

Here, if someone wishes to challenge a licensing practice, they're not going to get a license and therefore aren't going to be able to even possess a firearm until they either prevail in court or the PD backs down. That's a pretty big difference and we're asking a lot more of someone. The ideal plaintiff is a spouse or family member of a gun owner. Someone who isn't particularly interested in the license itself, but is interested in addressing a problem they view as a violation of one's fundamental right, even if they don't wish to exercise that right themselves.

Let me ask you this then: I currently hold a LTC-A restricted hunting/sport from a "Cape Town". Without too much information given, I also hold a LEOSA credential which I carry under. LTC to buy, LEOSA to carry. Not that I live in a red town, I'm pretty sure I'm green, but in the event during my renewal in a couple years (or maybe I renew early to get LTC unrestricted, who knows) I don't play along with the shenanigans (if there are any) - are my firearms now forfeit due to no LTC, even though I can carry and possess under LEOSA? I can't make heads or tails of it looking through the laws.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Let me ask you this then: I currently hold a LTC-A restricted hunting/sport from a "Cape Town". Without too much information given, I also hold a LEOSA credential which I carry under. LTC to buy, LEOSA to carry. Not that I live in a red town, I'm pretty sure I'm green, but in the event during my renewal in a couple years (or maybe I renew early to get LTC unrestricted, who knows) I don't play along with the shenanigans (if there are any) - are my firearms now forfeit due to no LTC, even though I can carry and possess under LEOSA? I can't make heads or tails of it looking through the laws.

Yes, because MGL states that on denial/revocation/suspension, that the PD must confiscate everything. There is no exception there for LEOSA credentialed people.

 

[ma-hole]

Yes, because MGL states that on denial/revocation/suspension, that the PD must confiscate everything. There is no exception there for LEOSA credentialed people.

Don't you get the option of transferring to a trusted agent?

 

[browncoat]

Don't you get the option of transferring to a trusted agent?

In this state, the options are on their end not on ours.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Don't you get the option of transferring to a trusted agent?

In this state, the options are on their end not on ours.

MGL C. 269 S. 10 makes it a felony not to IMMEDIATELY turn everything over to the police.

Legally you can transfer them (or give them for safe keeping, no ownership change) to any licensed party or FFL. BUT if the PD already had a bonded warehouse haul them away (like as soon as they got back to the PD), they are gone and you will likely pay thousands to get them back if you can even do that. Basically anything that hits a bonded warehouse is "gone" for all intents and purposes. According to Rob Boudrie (and I believe every word of it) he's aware of at least one case where the PD called the bonded warehouse to get there immediately even before the PD served their notice and confiscated everything. It's a revenge thing with no recourse by us (Comm2A legal case denied, appeal pending).