Legal to carry in a bar?

[offcamber]

I'm a trustee at a private club. As general rule we/they don't allow weapons in the bar. One of my bartenders the other day reported that a member came in wearing a sidearm. He didn't know what the specific rule was since he had a permit ( he was open carrying so it was a moot point anyway here in NH). The other trustees told him he could not be in the club with the sidearm.

This got me thinking. It says nothing in our house rules about it however the reason given was that its against the law to carry in a place that serves alcohol. I don't remember hearing this when I went through the state bartender class....so is this in fact true or are they mixed up with another states law? The person quoting it is from Maine originally.

 

[TheWookie]

No, it's not illegal to carry in a bar. Unless it's a Federal Bar

 

[RFWAVELENGTH]

I'm a trustee at a private club. As general rule we/they don't allow weapons in the bar. One of my bartenders the other day reported that a member came in wearing a sidearm. He didn't know what the specific rule was since he had a permit ( he was open carrying so it was a moot point anyway here in NH). The other trustees told him he could not be in the club with the sidearm.

This got me thinking. It says nothing in our house rules about it however the reason given was that its against the law to carry in a place that serves alcohol. I don't remember hearing this when I went through the state bartender class....so is this in fact true or are they mixed up with another states law? The person quoting it is from Maine originally.

One of the several reasons why I did not renew my membership in a certain MA rod & gun club back in 1992 was the fact that they had a bar and members carrying loaded guns were drinking. Some even went downstairs to use the indoor range after having a few. Another gun club had a person severely injured by a negligent discharge after a similar incident of drinking, then shooting. No thanks; regardless of what the law says, a club is responsible, morally, for the safety of its members and guests. Firearms and alcohol don't mix.

 

[offcamber]

One of the several reasons why I did not renew my membership in a certain MA rod & gun club back in 1992 was the fact that they had a bar and members carrying loaded guns were drinking. Some even went downstairs to use the indoor range after having a few. Another gun club had a person severely injured by a negligent discharge after a similar incident of drinking, then shooting. No thanks; regardless of what the law says, a club is responsible, morally, for the safety of its members and guests. Firearms and alcohol don't mix.

Thanks but the question was, is it legal? not whether it was a good idea. This isn't a gun club its a social club. There is no range, just a bar. I agree the two things do not mix however I was curious under state law whether we had the right to restrict it when our own rules do not specifically address it.

 

[ochmude]

One of the several reasons why I did not renew my membership in a certain MA rod & gun club back in 1992 was the fact that they had a bar and members carrying loaded guns were drinking. Some even went downstairs to use the indoor range after having a few. Another gun club had a person severely injured by a negligent discharge after a similar incident of drinking, then shooting. No thanks; regardless of what the law says, a club is responsible, morally, for the safety of its members and guests. Firearms and alcohol don't mix.

So are you saying people shouldn't drink and handle firearms, or that they shouldn't be allowed in bars while carrying?

 

[Rob Boudrie]

The person quoting it is from Maine originally.

Bar carry in Maine is illegal if a sign is posted at each entrance. The Maine binding signage law is alcohol specific, and does not apply to other establishments.

I am not aware of any bar ban in any other New England state.

 

[RFWAVELENGTH]

Thanks but the question was, is it legal? not whether it was a good idea. This isn't a gun club its a social club. There is no range, just a bar. I agree the two things do not mix however I was curious under state law whether we had the right to restrict it when our own rules do not specifically address it.

One thing that you may wish to do is check with your insurance company to see if your liquor liability policy and/or general liability policy would cover you in such circumstances. If you allow carry or have no rule prohibiting it, you could open yourself to civil liability if someone got hurt. Remember, you have two types of law to contend with: criminal and civil. If something happens and your insurance company runs for their "escape clause", your club could get sued into bankruptcy. Criminal law can fine/jail you; civil law can bankrupt you. Neither possibility is pleasant.

 

[drgrant]

There's nothing in the RSA's that prohibits carry in a bar.

Awhile ago in Manchester, (last year?) an armed patron shot some douchebag that tried to attack someone in a bar, IIRC. If it was illegal they would have likely arrested the patron as well, and they clearly did not.

-Mike

 

[offcamber]

Thanks this is what my researched proved out. I'm sure there will be a rule in place restricting it before the end of the year. As someone in charge and usually has the unpleasant responsibilty of breaking up the fights and throwing people out (rare but it happens) I feel more comfortable knowing my sidearm is there.

 

[harrihiker]

Thanks for posting this. I just got a Ruger LCP that I intend to start carrying and I was wondering if bars were legally offlimits or just in general a "bad idea"

 

[KMaurer]

It's not that carrying in a bar is automatically a bad idea. It's just that carrying makes voluntarily going to bad places an even worse idea that it would be otherwise. The question isn't whether it's a good idea to go to bars (in general), with or without a gun; it's whether it's a good idea to go to this particular bar at this particular time.

Ken

 

[ScottS]

It's not that carrying in a bar is automatically a bad idea. It's just that carrying makes voluntarily going to bad places an even worse idea that it would be otherwise. The question isn't whether it's a good idea to go to bars (in general), with or without a gun; it's whether it's a good idea to go to this particular bar at this particular time.

Ken

I agree with Ken that it's not automatically a bad idea. I have carried in bars, or at least in the bars attached to restaurants, frequently. (Can't think of the last time I went to a "bar" bar.) Bad things can happen in and around bars. Of course I don't drink, so there's no "alcohol and guns mixing" thing going on, and that may skew my perspective.

 

[GraftonNH]

Thanks this is what my researched proved out. I'm sure there will be a rule in place restricting it before the end of the year. As someone in charge and usually has the unpleasant responsibilty of breaking up the fights and throwing people out (rare but it happens) I feel more comfortable knowing my sidearm is there.

As has been discussed, there is no law in NH against carrying anywhere except a "courtroom or area used by a court." Federal law has it's own restrictions (federal parks, buildings, etc.) that don't apply here as well. For what it's worth, I can't find any specific laws that restrict the amount of alcohol you may consume while carrying; I would prefer you didn't because we really don't need any more restrictions.

Keep in mind though that a bar is likely private property and the owner/management may set any restrictions they like. Think: no shirt, no shoes, no service. If you are on private property and are asked to leave, regardless of how ridiculous the reason; my understanding is you must. If you refuse you can be arrested and charged with Criminal Trespass.

For anyone considering carrying in a specific state it is best to become familiar with the state laws for both lawful carry of Pistols and Revolvers and Deadly Force Justification.

I hope this helps.

Links from above in case you didn't see them (these get truncated in display, but clicking on them should work):
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/xii/159/159-mrg.htm
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/lxii/627/627-mrg.htm
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/LXII/635/635-2.htm

 

[ceo012384]

Federal law has it's own restrictions (federal parks, buildings, etc.)

I have a question, for which I apologize since it is off-topic...

I know in schools and federal buildings you cannot carry. But what about having firearms properly stored in your vehicle on federal property?

For example, you work on a federal installation, you want to shoot after work or carry somewhere after work... can you unload and lock your CCW in a container and leave it in your vehicle?

 

[Gonzo]

You can carry in bars in NH.

 

[GraftonNH]

I know in schools and federal buildings you cannot carry. But what about having firearms properly stored in your vehicle on federal property?

I am not a lawyer, nothing I say should be misconstrued as advice.


It would seem the jury is still out on the GFSZ laws, I keep hearing people's opinions go back and forth. A Pistol and Revolver License carrier should be fine driving by a school without any concern, but again do your own research and form your own judgements.

WRT Federal parking lots? Seems to me it might be ok, but do your own research. What I can find references IN federal facilities?:
http://www.nraila.org/federalfirearms.htm#Sec. 930

Sec. 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities

(a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.

(b) Whoever, with intent that a firearm or other dangerous weapon be used in the commission of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes to be present such firearm or dangerous weapon in a Federal facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.

(c) A person who kills or attempts to kill any person in the course of a violation of subsection (a) or (b), or in the course of an attack on a Federal facility involving the use of a firearm or other dangerous weapon, shall be punished as provided in sections 1111, 1112, and 1113.

(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to:

[snip]

(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

It goes on to say that "posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal facility"... "and no person shall be convicted of an offense [sic.]" if it wasn't posted.

Others have pondered similar questions here, they point out that Post Offices are their own special animal.
http://www.expertlaw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72570

That said, if your employer has rules about what can or can not be in their parking lot, you may still be in hot water... The same goes for private parking lots. On the topic of Post Offices:

http://www.examiner.com/x-2782-DC-G...rvice-enforces-gun-ban-in-public-parking-lots
"On October 14, 2009 the United States Circuit Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit upheld the conviction of a postal employee for possessing a gun in his vehicle while parked on a non-public United States Postal Service (USPS) parking lot in violation of a federal regulation at 39 CFR 232.1(l)."

Good luck when trying to figure out Federal law.

 

[Baystatesuks]

I wonder if the outcome of the federal property cases would be different if the gun were disassembled, e.g., the slide was removed and separate from the receiver? This procedure allows you to carry your disassembled gun (as long as it is dissambled and the components are locked in the trunk) in federal parks, on federal parkways, e.g., the Blue Ridge parkway, etc. I would think a similar practice should suffice on other federal property.

 

[ceo012384]

Thanks for the input Grafton, and baystate I didn't know that, interesting... I'm not sure the question has an easy answer. In this case the parking lot is inside the grounds which are gated and secured, not sure if that makes a difference...

I guess I could ask the security office on post, I'm assuming they should know that answer...

 

[Auspicious Aspect]

There's nothing in the RSA's that prohibits carry in a bar.

Awhile ago in Manchester, (last year?) an armed patron shot some douchebag that tried to attack someone in a bar, IIRC. If it was illegal they would have likely arrested the patron as well, and they clearly did not.

-Mike

2-3 years back at this point. Two patrons were causing trouble late one night and were thrown out. They went back to their car and retrieved a (stolen) 1911 and started shooting at the bouncers. Another patron drew his Kel-Tec P3AT and fired three times, putting two into the criminal shooter. His gun jammed in the middle of the string, but he cleared it and got back into the fight. Criminals dropped the .45 and ran away. Police followed the blood trail and caught them a short time later. Here's a surprise: They were both in this country illegally, and had outstanding warrants. Good guy lost his gun for a time during the investigation, but no charges were contemplated, much less filed. Some nice folks took up a collection and the good guy had a newer, larger-caliber gun in a couple days.

Thanks for posting this. I just got a Ruger LCP that I intend to start carrying and I was wondering if bars were legally offlimits or just in general a "bad idea"

Neither.

I agree with Ken that it's not automatically a bad idea. I have carried in bars, or at least in the bars attached to restaurants, frequently. (Can't think of the last time I went to a "bar" bar.) Bad things can happen in and around bars. Of course I don't drink, so there's no "alcohol and guns mixing" thing going on, and that may skew my perspective.

Of course, there aren't any "bar" bars in NH, at least not open to the public.

 

[Gonzo]

Of course, there aren't any "bar" bars in NH, at least not open to the public.

Huh?

 

[Auspicious Aspect]

Huh?

NH has a law that places with liquor licenses that are open to the general public must derive more than 50% of their revenue from sales of food. That's not a bar, its a restaurant-with-a-bar or lounge, whatever you want to call it. True bars often don't bother with food, and its never an important part of their income. True bars sometimes let you bring in your own food or have some delivered, and the drinks are a lot cheaper than you find in a lounge. For that experience in NH, you have to find a private club, since "bar" bars are not allowed.

 

[Gonzo]

NH has a law that places with liquor licenses that are open to the general public must derive more than 50% of their revenue from sales of food. That's not a bar, its a restaurant-with-a-bar or lounge, whatever you want to call it. True bars often don't bother with food, and its never an important part of their income. True bars sometimes let you bring in your own food or have some delivered, and the drinks are a lot cheaper than you find in a lounge. For that experience in NH, you have to find a private club, since "bar" bars are not allowed.

You been here? Ever?

 

[Auspicious Aspect]

You been here? Ever?

You mean NH? Native. Here now.

 

[Gonzo]

You mean NH? Native. Here now.

Get out more. There's plenty of "bar" bars. Go have a good time man. When I go out I don't go to anyplace that's anything other than a "bar" bar. We should drink sometime.

 

[Auspicious Aspect]

Get out more. There's plenty of "bar" bars. Go have a good time man. When I go out I don't go to anyplace that's anything other than a "bar" bar. We should drink sometime.

Uh huh. Name one in, say, Manchester.

 

[Gonzo]

Uh huh. Name one in, say, Manchester.

Gee. Strangebrew. Name the law where "bar" bars are not allowed in NH.

 

[Auspicious Aspect]

Gee. Strangebrew. Name the law where "bar" bars are not allowed in NH.

OK, I understand now. If you think Strange Brew is a bar, I guess you don't know what a bar really is. Maybe you should get out more, drink in other states.

Its in the CARs, not the RSAs. If I can find the cites on line (its made up of multiple sections), I will post them.

 

[Gonzo]

OK, I understand now. If you think Strange Brew is a bar, I guess you don't know what a bar really is. Maybe you should get out more, drink in other states.

Its in the CARs, not the RSAs. If I can find the cites on line (its made up of multiple sections), I will post them.

Yeah. Maybe I should get out more.

 

[Gonzo]

Looking forward to seeing a copy of that law.

 

[Palladin]

Yeah. Maybe I should get out more.

Too funny!!!!
As if Japan isn't like getting out more!!!!

+1