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Just got a Mosin M-38...
- Thread starter Xak
- Start date
I wouldn't count it out just yet. It may clean up some after you shoot it.
M38s were never known for great accuracy but sometimes you hear about someone having one that shoots better than any of their 91/30s.
I have one thats counter bored with pretty worn rifling and it shoots just ok at 50 yards. I thought of selling it but kept it anyway. These are cheap Mosins and are pretty much just a collectable/blaster in my opinion. If its an accurate Mosin you want at an affordable price, get an early 91/30 like a hex reciever model or a Finn'ed 91/30. Its when you get into M39s and other Finns that Mosins start getting price tags of $200+.
M38s were never known for great accuracy but sometimes you hear about someone having one that shoots better than any of their 91/30s.
I have one thats counter bored with pretty worn rifling and it shoots just ok at 50 yards. I thought of selling it but kept it anyway. These are cheap Mosins and are pretty much just a collectable/blaster in my opinion. If its an accurate Mosin you want at an affordable price, get an early 91/30 like a hex reciever model or a Finn'ed 91/30. Its when you get into M39s and other Finns that Mosins start getting price tags of $200+.
Xak,
Sometimes the old milsurps shoot well, even with some wear.
If the barrel is smooth, not pitted, there's a good chance that it will shoot well.
While you're checking it out, take a close look at the condition of the muzzle.
Any nicks or dings there will ruin the accuracy for sure.
Jack
If it does have muzzle wear or damage, you can smooth some of it out using a trick I keep saying I'm gonna try one of these days. I keep hearing of people doing a Bubba like re-crown job using a cordless drill with a carriage bolt in the chuck and some lapping compound on the head.![[hmmm]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/009.gif "Hmm [hmmm]")
Guess it beats buying a re-crowning tool from a smithing shop.
Guess it beats buying a re-crowning tool from a smithing shop.
It's already been counterbored, over 1 1/8" deep as well. I purposely bought the crappier of the 2 M-38's I saw in the store because I wanted to modernize it with a different stock, scope mount, etc. I would have felt bad destroying the one with nice wood.
I had no idea the bore was this bad. Should I return it? Can I still return it if I shoot it first?
I had no idea the bore was this bad. Should I return it? Can I still return it if I shoot it first?
Xak,
Milsurps are usually sold "as is", so unless you made some prior arrangement with the store, you probably own it.
If bore condition or matching numbers are important to you, you need to discuss this with the seller before the sale.
A milsurp is not generally understood to be returnable except for a safety problem, such as excess headspace or some hidden damage that would render it unsafe to fire.
I would certainly ask the store manager if it is OK to return it for a bad bore, but if the answer is no, that is the deal.
Some dealers who specialize in milsurps will take the time to clean and grade the guns, with detailed descriptions. Empire Arms is one of these dealers. You will pay a premium for this service and the gun is returnable if it doesn't match the description.
Milsurps and collectables are generally sold with a three day, non firing inspection as part of the terms, but the dealer can set the terms otherwise.
Again, this is something that you need to discuss before the sale.
All of us who collect and shoot the old guns have gotten something that we didn't like. It is part of the learning experience in the world of collecting.
BTW, I have a M38 that looks good outside but has a crappy bore. It still shoots well, but is a PITA to clean. I will keep it and shoot it until I find a nicer example. I also have an absolutely brand new Polish M44 that I haven't fired yet. I paid 3X the going rate to get the new one, based on rarity and condition.
Milsurps are usually sold "as is", so unless you made some prior arrangement with the store, you probably own it.
If bore condition or matching numbers are important to you, you need to discuss this with the seller before the sale.
A milsurp is not generally understood to be returnable except for a safety problem, such as excess headspace or some hidden damage that would render it unsafe to fire.
I would certainly ask the store manager if it is OK to return it for a bad bore, but if the answer is no, that is the deal.
Some dealers who specialize in milsurps will take the time to clean and grade the guns, with detailed descriptions. Empire Arms is one of these dealers. You will pay a premium for this service and the gun is returnable if it doesn't match the description.
Milsurps and collectables are generally sold with a three day, non firing inspection as part of the terms, but the dealer can set the terms otherwise.
Again, this is something that you need to discuss before the sale.
All of us who collect and shoot the old guns have gotten something that we didn't like. It is part of the learning experience in the world of collecting.
BTW, I have a M38 that looks good outside but has a crappy bore. It still shoots well, but is a PITA to clean. I will keep it and shoot it until I find a nicer example. I also have an absolutely brand new Polish M44 that I haven't fired yet. I paid 3X the going rate to get the new one, based on rarity and condition.
If it does have muzzle wear or damage, you can smooth some of it out using a trick I keep saying I'm gonna try one of these days. I keep hearing of people doing a Bubba like re-crown job using a cordless drill with a carriage bolt in the chuck and some lapping compound on the head.
Guess it beats buying a re-crowning tool from a smithing shop.
that was featured a couple of months ago in American Rifleman in the Midway Ad/Article. They cut off a 22lr barrel and "re-crowned" this way. Seemed a little odd to me too, but if it works...
Thanx for the advise jhrosier. I suspected as such. Well, I'll see how it shoots then. Do you think the fact that it is counterbored so deep is a bad sign? What would you consider acceptable MOA for a 1942 beat up mosin? Keep in mind I may want to use this rifle for a bubba scout scope project if it shoots straight. If not I may refinish the stock, take out the firing pin and mount it on the wall.
I may go back and buy the other M38 with nice wood to keep as is. I don't see many M38's around these parts. A nice M44 is on my list someday as well. I see them everywhere.
I may go back and buy the other M38 with nice wood to keep as is. I don't see many M38's around these parts. A nice M44 is on my list someday as well. I see them everywhere.
I'll chime in here and say the fact that its counter bored so deep was that its what the Russians thought was enough accurizing to make that rifle hit a man sized target at distances of at least 100 yards.
I understand your wanting to adapt an old milsurp beater barreled action into an accurately scoped rifle with modern stock and features, but the M38 is a bad example to do so with.
If its sporterizing you're after, grab an old Mauser action with a nice bore or a 91/30 Mosin like the cut down Remington actions Centerfire sells. Mention to the shop you're buying from that you want something to build on even if its just with a scope and synthetic stock. They may have some beater stock arsenal missmatched rifles with mint bores that would suit your needs better.
I understand your wanting to adapt an old milsurp beater barreled action into an accurately scoped rifle with modern stock and features, but the M38 is a bad example to do so with.
If its sporterizing you're after, grab an old Mauser action with a nice bore or a 91/30 Mosin like the cut down Remington actions Centerfire sells. Mention to the shop you're buying from that you want something to build on even if its just with a scope and synthetic stock. They may have some beater stock arsenal missmatched rifles with mint bores that would suit your needs better.
I never measured one, but the counterbored ones I've examined all seem to be about an inch deep. If it is not totally botched, it is no different than the common practice of putting a muzzle brake or flashhider on a gun.
If I was going to hunt critters with it, I would want to get a 3 to 4 inch group at 100 yards, from a rest. I have no idea how they usually shoot, perhaps someone else could help us with that. I've only fired mine offhand, open sights, and with ammo that MAY have been made in Bulgaria. I fired a couple of sighters at 50 yards and it was 7 or 8 inches high, so I used a little "Kentucky" elevation when I shot the runing deer match last fall. It seemed to put them within a couple of inches of where I thought I was aiming.
There are lots of different batches of ammo out there and I would quess that some are more accurate than others. Since you are thinking of hunting with it, you will need to find some soft point ammo and that is what you should judge the accuracy with, not milsurp ball ammo.
If you are going to sporterize it, you might want to consider the M44 instead of the M38. They seem to be quite a bit more common and usually cheaper.
The only extra work is to hacksaw the bayonet lug off and file the stub to blend with the base.
Darn! Now you got me thinking of doing one (like I really needed another project.)
![[crying]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/006.gif "Crying [crying]")
