Just got a 3D printer, anyone else have one ?

Unfortunately after just a couple of cycles, the feed lips are breaking off this mag design :-(

I think if I could print the magazine along another axis it might work better, the problem is that the stress is "with the grain" as it were, the feed lips tend to get bent outwards and the adhesion from one layer to the next is kind of the weak point
of this printer; if I fooled around more with extrusion temperature, speed, and a cooling fan mounted to the extruder head, I could probably get a stronger hold between layers , but I don't have that much time to experiment.

It took me quite a few tries to get the dimensions correct, and there is not much room for error, the cartridges have to fit into the magazine, and the magazine has to fit into the mag well, and the wall thickness is pretty slim, just a few hundredths of an inch in some places. So there's really no room to beef up the wall thickness anyplace.
 
hminsky said:
It took me quite a few tries to get the dimensions correct, and there is not much room for error, the cartridges have to fit into the magazine, and the magazine has to fit into the mag well, and the wall thickness is pretty slim, just a few hundredths of an inch in some places. So there's really no room to beef up the wall thickness anyplace.
Click to expand...

Not suggesting you tackle this, but bet that there will eventually be patterns for receivers and magazines that are designed from the start to be printed and will work reliably.
 
namedpipes said:
Not suggesting you tackle this, but bet that there will eventually be patterns for receivers and magazines that are designed from the start to be printed and will work reliably.
Click to expand...

i doubt it. printing is just not suitable process to manufacture hi-strength parts. printers are for prototyping, as any application they have theirs strengths and weaknesses.
you could probably get away with printed ABS if you make mag single stack and use all freed up space for bulking up the sides.
as for feedramp breakage solution you can leave provisions for a metal insert that glued into place and spreads out load over greater area and also acts as reinforcing structure.
 
Way off topic but i got a idea... for give me for my stupid question too...

Could you print a mold for the mags?

Lay a few layers of carbon fiber and insert a section of sheet metal between the for the feed lips? Then glue the two sides together like some of those ak mags? I vacuum mold stuff out of carbon fiber... You just need a fish tank pump, a can filled with charcoal to soak up the extra resin to make the pump last.. Vacuum out the bag toss in the oven on low heat ...

You ever thought of turning your printer in to a mill? You could start off with a solid block and mill the inner out from the bottom , then just have a dove tail bottom...


Send it!
 
warwickben said:
You ever thought of turning your printer in to a mill? You could start off with a solid block and mill the inner out from the bottom , then just have a dove tail bottom...
Click to expand...

There is a series of books by Dave(?) Gingery leading through the process of making all kinds of small scale machining equipment, like mills, lathes, brakes...

"Print" the parts in plastic, use the plastic equipment to make new ones of aluminium and use *that* one to make a final set in steel. Then use it to make a *bigger* mill and so on until you recursively have a full size machine shop.
 
As far as firearms are concerned 3d prints are really just good to look at. I wouldn't want to rely on any 3d print materials for safety and reliability reasons.
But like some others said you could use the printed parts to create casts for aluminum parts......

Hey what do I know I just do this stuff for work lol...
 
Printed up a AR15-lower vise block, which works quite well, didn't have to do any sanding or filing to get it to fit just right.

25CC8405-7BFF-4D62-A0EC-D67572A496AF.JPG
F197F018-2437-4D00-949D-97767CD83E3F.JPG
 
Make that a "syfy" geek.


A question for the Mass AG....if I "print" my mag out of 3 million year old petroleum based plastic, is it pre-ban?
 
Rancho said:
As far as firearms are concerned 3d prints are really just good to look at. I wouldn't want to rely on any 3d print materials for safety and reliability reasons.
But like some others said you could use the printed parts to create casts for aluminum parts......

Hey what do I know I just do this stuff for work lol...
Click to expand...
We are the dealer for Stratasys systems in New England. Many firearms manufacturers have FDM machines and it's routine to create working prototypes of stocks and such. One gunsmith created a .22 pistol with the Stratasys Dimension system. I've downloaded all sorts of parts from Grabcad and made them, though usually in blue plastic as a display model.

The processes these systems use collectively to make parts is called Additive Manufacturing. There is a growing trend to use the parts from such machines for real-world products, not prototypes. In fact, in 2011 the industry used more material to make production parts than prototypes. Boeing Aircraft alone has over 200 parts in production, and uses over five tons of material a year.

The original patents on FDM and Stereolithography expired recently, which has led to the introduction of all the personal systems and kits on the market. These low-cost machines are very limited in what kind of parts they can make and how strong they are for several reasons, most notably because they don't have heated build chambers.

Would I buy one? I'm as spoiled as you can get, since we have demo systems of every system Stratasys makes except the Fortus 900mc. The largest machine we have in our shop in Peabody can make a 16" x 14" x 16" part and can use higher-strength materials like Polycarbonate and ULTEM.

This weekend was the Maker Faire in NYC, so there are probably lots of announcements about "maker" grade systems in the $1,000 to $2,500 range. Frankly I don't think they work well enough to justify the cost unless you only need really simple shapes without much strength or just want to play with the technology. If you were more serious, for $4,000 to $6,000 you could buy a used FDM machine that would work much better - but are more complex.

It's exciting technology and the industry is expected to grow 30% a year for the next five years. Our customers have as many as five systems and are doing some amazing things with them: most of which we can't talk about. But as one example, Stratasys made a UAV then had another company print electronics on the inside surfaces to make a working UAV. NASA plans to send one up to see how they work in zero G. Etc.

This is the front of a "Virtual" Fortus 400, made on an even larger machine.
new_image_w640.jpeg
 
I'll be really interested to see what happens in this industry. It's clearly got a big future for prototyping and small production runs. I just wonder how the consumer grade market will play out; it seems like it's a lot like firearms; the technology behind the cartridges are as important as the guns themselves, if not more so. If the materials get good enough, i have no doubt that the companies that make inkjet printers could make sub .001" resolution printers very cheaply, if they thought they could make their money selling printing supplies. Or else maybe when the price point gets down low enough people will just send their 3D designs to overnight printing services.

The prices at Shapeways and Ponoko are still on the high side; I know some people who got some of the high-wear parts for their 3D hobby printers printed up there, but it cost something like $35 for a set of custom nylon gears, which seems excessive for the hobby market, although it's practically free for an industrial prototype.
 
The other thing as someone pointed out is that if you're willing to design to the strengths of the materials, you can get very durable parts from these hobby machines, but you need to accept that parts have to be fatter and beefier to get the same strength, you don't get the nice compact and good looking parts you're used to from injection molding or machined plastic.

Like someone suggested that I need to print single stack AR15 mags instead of trying to work within the tolerances for the double stack ones.
 
garandman said:
We are the dealer for Stratasys systems in New England. Many firearms manufacturers have FDM machines and it's routine to create working prototypes of stocks and such. One gunsmith created a .22 pistol with the Stratasys Dimension system. I've downloaded all sorts of parts from Grabcad and made them, though usually in blue plastic as a display model.

The processes these systems use collectively to make parts is called Additive Manufacturing. There is a growing trend to use the parts from such machines for real-world products, not prototypes. In fact, in 2011 the industry used more material to make production parts than prototypes. Boeing Aircraft alone has over 200 parts in production, and uses over five tons of material a year.

The original patents on FDM and Stereolithography expired recently, which has led to the introduction of all the personal systems and kits on the market. These low-cost machines are very limited in what kind of parts they can make and how strong they are for several reasons, most notably because they don't have heated build chambers.

Would I buy one? I'm as spoiled as you can get, since we have demo systems of every system Stratasys makes except the Fortus 900mc. The largest machine we have in our shop in Peabody can make a 16" x 14" x 16" part and can use higher-strength materials like Polycarbonate and ULTEM.

This weekend was the Maker Faire in NYC, so there are probably lots of announcements about "maker" grade systems in the $1,000 to $2,500 range. Frankly I don't think they work well enough to justify the cost unless you only need really simple shapes without much strength or just want to play with the technology. If you were more serious, for $4,000 to $6,000 you could buy a used FDM machine that would work much better - but are more complex.

It's exciting technology and the industry is expected to grow 30% a year for the next five years. Our customers have as many as five systems and are doing some amazing things with them: most of which we can't talk about. But as one example, Stratasys made a UAV then had another company print electronics on the inside surfaces to make a working UAV. NASA plans to send one up to see how they work in zero G. Etc.

This is the front of a "Virtual" Fortus 400, made on an even larger machine.
new_image_w640.jpeg
Click to expand...

Awesome stuff!! really! ..
I am interested to see if there is room to develop a material that could withstand being used as a barrel/chamber , that's really what I was eluding to and the fact that the maker level systems aren't as robust .
I've used some FDM for turbine models in the past and has proven to be veery useful in some testing.
Mostly now we use a zcorp printer as I am in the shoe industry now.
 
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Rancho said:
Awesome stuff!! really! ..
I am interested to see if there is room to develop a material that could withstand being used as a barrel/chamber , that's really what I was eluding to and the fact that the maker level systems aren't as robust . /
Click to expand...
Metal parts are the holy grale as the market would be 100x the plastics market.

There are some systems available now that sinter Titanium (usually). While the most expensive Stratasys machine is $350,000, the least expensive systems to do metal are more like $1 million.

The military, for example, would love to have a machine so they could make repair parts on-site rather than fly them in from somewhere else.

There are over 200 Stratasys commercial systems in New England and probably over 100 of the others, not counting the education market. So they're becoming more common. If a bunch of you are interested I can open up or Peabody office some Saturday or Sunday and show you all our toys....
 
garandman said:
Metal parts are the holy grale as the market would be 100x the plastics market.

There are some systems available now that sinter Titanium (usually). While the most expensive Stratasys machine is $350,000, the least expensive systems to do metal are more like $1 million.

The military, for example, would love to have a machine so they could make repair parts on-site rather than fly them in from somewhere else.

There are over 200 Stratasys commercial systems in New England and probably over 100 of the others, not counting the education market. So they're becoming more common. If a bunch of you are interested I can open up or Peabody office some Saturday or Sunday and show you all our toys....
Click to expand...

I for one uold be interested in that. I can think of one or two others that might possibly be interested, too.
 
garandman said:
We are the dealer for Stratasys systems in New England. Many firearms manufacturers have FDM machines and it's routine to create working prototypes of stocks and such. One gunsmith created a .22 pistol with the Stratasys Dimension system. I've downloaded all sorts of parts from Grabcad and made them, though usually in blue plastic as a display model.

The processes these systems use collectively to make parts is called Additive Manufacturing. There is a growing trend to use the parts from such machines for real-world products, not prototypes. In fact, in 2011 the industry used more material to make production parts than prototypes. Boeing Aircraft alone has over 200 parts in production, and uses over five tons of material a year.

The original patents on FDM and Stereolithography expired recently, which has led to the introduction of all the personal systems and kits on the market. These low-cost machines are very limited in what kind of parts they can make and how strong they are for several reasons, most notably because they don't have heated build chambers.

Would I buy one? I'm as spoiled as you can get, since we have demo systems of every system Stratasys makes except the Fortus 900mc. The largest machine we have in our shop in Peabody can make a 16" x 14" x 16" part and can use higher-strength materials like Polycarbonate and ULTEM.

This weekend was the Maker Faire in NYC, so there are probably lots of announcements about "maker" grade systems in the $1,000 to $2,500 range. Frankly I don't think they work well enough to justify the cost unless you only need really simple shapes without much strength or just want to play with the technology. If you were more serious, for $4,000 to $6,000 you could buy a used FDM machine that would work much better - but are more complex.

It's exciting technology and the industry is expected to grow 30% a year for the next five years. Our customers have as many as five systems and are doing some amazing things with them: most of which we can't talk about. But as one example, Stratasys made a UAV then had another company print electronics on the inside surfaces to make a working UAV. NASA plans to send one up to see how they work in zero G. Etc.

This is the front of a "Virtual" Fortus 400, made on an even larger machine.
new_image_w640.jpeg
Click to expand...

OH DEAR CHRIST! It can self-replicate! It's SkyNet! We're all doooooomed!

...good stuff, it's only a small step to incorporating another print head to print the electronics during construction and have one of these making the completed product from beginning to end in one self contained setup. Might take a while to get it working, but I have little doubt it is coming.
 
hminsky said:
Printed up a AR15-lower vise block, which works quite well, didn't have to do any sanding or filing to get it to fit just right.
Click to expand...

stupid question.....

did this cost you less than $10 to produce?
was just looking at a lower vice block for 9 and some change, plus shipping... (i know if i had a 3d printer the cost of the vice block would be beside the point ;) )
and i like that color better than black ;)
 
inerlogic said:
stupid question.....

did this cost you less than $10 to produce?
was just looking at a lower vice block for 9 and some change, plus shipping... (i know if i had a 3d printer the cost of the vice block would be beside the point ;) )
and i like that color better than black ;)
Click to expand...

That's a valid question, but he is learning to control it. It probably is cheaper to buy mugs, potato chip bag clips or vise blocks, but when you master the machine you can make ... well, I don't know, but I want one anyway and I'm wicked jealous.

As these machines mature I predict a resurgence of American Enginuity (engineering ingenuity - my word, just coined, TM pending) like we saw from home workshops in the 1910's and 1920's. That is a GOOD thing for our future as it trains people to think again (a lost art).


It's worth pointing out there are hobbiests with complete (small scale and mostly homemade) CNC machine shops in their homes, capable of producing working machinery in "real" metal. That equipment is probably on a par cost-wise with a decent 3d printer kit.
 
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namedpipes said:
That's a valid question, but he is learning to control it. It probably is cheaper to buy mugs, potato chip bag clips or vise blocks, but when you master the machine you can make ... well, I don't know, but I want one anyway and I'm wicked jealous.

As these machines mature I predict a resurgence of American Enginuity (engineering ingenuity - my word, just coined, TM pending) like we saw from home workshops in the 1910's and 1920's. That is a GOOD thing for our future as it trains people to think again (a lost art).


It's worth pointing out there are hobbiests with complete (small scale and mostly homemade) CNC machine shops in their homes, capable of producing working machinery in "real" metal. That equipment is probably on a par cost-wise with a decent 3d printer kit.
Click to expand...

Right, it's not the cost but the flexibility. And it did cost less than $10 in materials, probably about $1 in plastic filament to print the vise. It's not solid, inside the outer shell, the printer automatically goes to a lower print density (I have it set to 40%).

I came home the other night and the toilet seat on our fancy Japanese washlet toilet had come off because one of the pins had fallen out and disappeared. I took the other one out, measured it, and printed up a replacement and stuck it in, and could sit on the can again. That was a feeling of satisfaction!
 
I can't find plastic grips for one of my CZ-82s.... Did a quick FRUITLESS search on thingiverse.... We may need to talk ;)

Sent from my EVO 4G LTE using Forum Runner
 
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Scarecrow said:
OH DEAR CHRIST! It can self-replicate! It's SkyNet! We're all doooooomed!/
Click to expand...
My latest hobby project idea is to buy one of the RepRap machines, the rebuild most of the frame and pieces in the Stratasys machines, adding some features that should greatly improve the part quality so they are usable for real stuff.

Scarecrow said:
/...good stuff, it's only a small step to incorporating another print head to print the electronics during construction and have one of these making the completed product from beginning to end in one self contained setup. Might take a while to get it working, but I have little doubt it is coming.
Click to expand...
Oh, you mean something like this?
ViewMedia


Why stop there - why not 3D print organs? [hint - already been done as an experiment]

inerlogic said:
I can't find plastic grips for one of my CZ-82s.... Did a quick search on thingiverse.... We may need to talk ;)
Click to expand...
Send me a link to the file and I'll make them for you.Just printed this flag mount for my motorcycle.
i-4pMKgmQ-S.jpg
 
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