John Farnam on Concealed Carry

[JimConway]

9 Feb 10

These comments from the owner/operator of an indoor range:

"An acquaintance came to our Range yesterday evening. He wanted to ask me
some questions about his carry-pistol and then take it to the range and
run several dozen rounds through it. He explained that he had been carrying
it concealed, '... off and on,' for several months, ever since a gruesome
homicide made our local news early last fall. I've encouraged him to get
involved in some professional training, but he has put it off.

Once in a stall, he faced down-range, drew his pistol (SA XD/M, 9mm), and
then pulled back and released the slide, chambering a round. I stopped him
and asked if he had been carrying this pistol, in this condition, on his
way to the Range.

He said, '... Of course!'

I responded, '... and you didn't have a round chambered?'

'Well, I don't carry with a round in the chamber, because I want to be...
safe' ... ad nauseam

I then went through the usual lecture, the one about 'Who promised you your
support-side hand will be available to you at the start of your next
gunfight?'

Like so many, he readily acknowledged the unassailable logic of my
argument, but he was '... still not sure'

I then advised him to remove his holster. I took the pistol from him,
unloaded it, replaced it in the box it came in, and strongly advised him to
leave it there until he 'finds the time' to attend professional instruction!

I can only wonder how many other frightened, confused, willfully-ignorant
people there are, running around like this person, concerned about there
personal safety, yet unwilling to do much more than take timid, abortive
half-steps."

Comment: I'm sure their number is legion, and growing with every edition of
the Evening News!

What follows is opinion:

You're either in the Navy, or you're not!

When a person indicates that he chooses to not carry a gun, because he is
sick, or he just enjoyed a cocktail, or he is on medication, or he has made
the personal choice not to go armed, for reasons that apparently suffice
for him, you'll hear not a peep of argument from my corner. Far be it from
me to dispense unsolicited advice!

However, when an otherwise normal, rational, and able-bodied person
knowingly holsters a modern, autoloading pistol whose chamber is empty, and then
expects to share a car, or dinner-table, with me, he will have to find
someone else with whom to socialize. I want nothing to do with him!

I consider that person unstable and worse than useless. He is intentionally
living in fantasy-land, and being in his presence is therefore contrary to
my best interests. This world has never been sympathetic with the
delusional!

I can't count on his skills, nor obviously, his judgment.

/John

 

[bhmax16]

While a bit harsh, there is a lot of truth to what he's saying. He isn't doing himself or others a favor by carrying half-assed (no round in the chamber).

With that said my pistol of choice is a 1911, cocked and locked. Extremely safe way to carry, whether a pistol with a hammer and safety or a striker fired pistol with no safety. They're all safe if you follow the rules of firearm handling

 

[newenglandshooter]

Revolvers people, REVOLVERS.

 

[JimConway]

You should all remember that you have the rest of your life to get your handgun into action

 

[45collector]

Revolvers people, REVOLVERS.

I know of a guy who carries a perfectly good functioning S&W .38 snub with the first pull of the trigger being on an empty chamber. Yes, only 4 rounds in the gun. Didn't really understand that one.

 

[scouter-rick]

Was his name Barney Fife? <grin>

 

[Steelhorse]

I know of a guy who carries a perfectly good functioning S&W .38 snub with the first pull of the trigger being on an empty chamber. Yes, only 4 rounds in the gun. Didn't really understand that one.

That's an old cowboy thing. Before the invent of internal safeties, whenever the hammer was down the firing pin would be extended to the casing. If there was a chance the hammer would get jostled or bounced around (like on a horse), the pin COULD ignite the primer. So they developed the empty-chamber method as you mentioned. Today, with our new tech we don't have the need to do that...he may not be aware of it though.

 

[GSG]

That's an old cowboy thing. Before the invent of internal safeties, whenever the hammer was down the firing pin would be extended to the casing. If there was a chance the hammer would get jostled or bounced around (like on a horse), the pin COULD ignite the primer. So they developed the empty-chamber method as you mentioned. Today, with our new tech we don't have the need to do that...he may not be aware of it though.

It sounds like what 45collector's describing is the gun being carried on a live chamber, but the next chamber in line is empty so that the first trigger pull will result in a "click."

 

[FiremanBob]

It sounds like what 45collector's describing is the gun being carried on a live chamber, but the next chamber in line is empty so that the first trigger pull will result in a "click."

Back in the day of SA revolvers, when you pull the hammer back to cock the cylinder turns bringing up the live chamber. No click till after the fifth shot.

 

[RollingThunder-1911]

While a bit harsh, there is a lot of truth to what he's saying. He isn't doing himself or others a favor by carrying half-assed (no round in the chamber).

With that said my pistol of choice is a 1911, cocked and locked. Extremely safe way to carry, whether a pistol with a hammer and safety or a striker fired pistol with no safety. They're all safe if you follow the rules of firearm handling

Can't agree more. My carry is a S&W 1911, and there's only one way to carry it. Cocked & Locked. I personally know of a few individuals who carry without a round in the chamber......still haven't figured it out other than they need training.

 

[Steelhorse]

It sounds like what 45collector's describing is the gun being carried on a live chamber, but the next chamber in line is empty so that the first trigger pull will result in a "click."

What FiremanBob said...you actually carry it ON the empty chamber so no ADs occur. The next trigger pull brings up a live round.

 

[GSG]

Back in the day of SA revolvers, when you pull the hammer back to cock the cylinder turns bringing up the live chamber. No click till after the fifth shot.

What FiremanBob said...you actually carry it ON the empty chamber so no ADs occur. The next trigger pull brings up a live round.

Don't worry, I know that. Someone I know just bought an old SA revolver and I shared this very piece of information with him (he'd been keeping it fully loaded before that). But what 45collector is describing is someone who carries their revolver with the hammer down on a live cylinder, but the next cylinder in line empty, so that the first trigger pull results in a "click," followed by 5 "bangs." It's probably the same type of logic malfunction that leads people to have the first loaded round as a less lethal round/blank/snake shot in their self defense gun. I wouldn't do it, and I don't personally know anyone who does it, but I'm sure people do.

I personally know of a few individuals who carry without a round in the chamber......still haven't figured it out other than they need training.

Hey, if Plaxico Buress had carried with an empty chamber he wouldn't have gotten Glock leg and the subsequent felony conviction.

 

[Arioch]

That's an old cowboy thing. Before the invent of internal safeties, whenever the hammer was down the firing pin would be extended to the casing. If there was a chance the hammer would get jostled or bounced around (like on a horse), the pin COULD ignite the primer. So they developed the empty-chamber method as you mentioned. Today, with our new tech we don't have the need to do that...he may not be aware of it though.

The old timers (gunslingers and shootist) often rolled up a $20 bill and kept it in the empty chamber. It was their "burying money."

 

[Jose]

It sounds like what 45collector's describing is the gun being carried on a live chamber, but the next chamber in line is empty so that the first trigger pull will result in a "click."

That is supremely retarded.

 

[GSG]

That is supremely retarded.

Yup.

 

[GSG]

That is supremely retarded.

But it looks like at least one felon does it.

In another twist, the loaded revolver that Kelleher and Romero grappled over miraculously didn't fire when Romero squeezed the trigger because there were only five bullets, not six, in the gun, sources said Friday.

 

[portable75]

I agree that no one should carry without putting plenty of time in at the range on a regular basis. However I did carry unloaded for while when I first started to carry, I guess just to get used to the whole thing. With a good holster and knowing your weapon you should not have a problem.

 

[xtry51]

I don't think it's fair to flame someone for carrying how they feel comfortable. Will it cost him some critical time and maybe lose the element of surprise in a bad situation, sure. But, that's his call and he can deal with that should it ever happen.

I'm just happy there's people out there carrying. The more we get the better. It does us no good to alienate those who share in our cause because we don't like their personal choices. Doing so makes us no better than the people we're trying to stop stealing our rights just because they choose not to exercise them.

My main carry is a Colt 1911, which I carry cocked and locked. I do however have a Kel Tec .380 and a Kahr P40, both of which I sometimes carry without one in the chamber depending on situation/location. When I carry either of those at home I leave the chamber empty as I have children who like to jump on me at any given moment and I like to pocket or open carry at home rather than IWB.

 

[JimConway]

If a person carries a gun with an empty chamber, there could be a very real problem.
Anyone that has taken a Southnarc class has seen just how hard is to simply access a gun during a scuffle.
Now consider trying to chamber a round during that same scuffle with only one hand.
Enough said

 

[MJM]

if you are new to carrying it is a great idea to carry at home for a while. get use to carrying at home with a round in the chamber so you can carry this way when you are out. IMO if you are carrying a gun without one in the chamber you might as well be carrying a rock because when "it" hits the fan thats about all it will be.....one expensive rock to throw.