Jewish Gun Owners

[Pilgrim]

I am baffled by how many Jews are antigun.

 

[dwarven1]

I am baffled by how many Jews are antigun.

So am I, Pilgrim, so am I.

 

[KMaurer]

You might want to start by looking through some of the articles that are (once again) available in Ask the Rabbi. I'd suggest that you don't simply point her there, since some of the topics would undoubtedly scare her away before she bothered to read any. I've always enjoyed Reuven's articles, though I do sometimes disagree with his preferences in guns.

Ken

 

[Lugnut]

I think I would start with her own History.......Starting around 1938 or so.....

I'm really surprised more folks haven't mentioned this. I'm no history expert.. but didn't Hitler disarm all the Jews and others before he started the genocide?

My wife doesn't believe things like that could possibly happen in this era.. I hate to say it but she's incredibly naive.

On the other hand my wife has been very tollerant to my hobby/sport/obsession. She used to HATE being around them and couldn't stand me having one. The mere thought of letting our kids touch one enraged her.... but things can and often do change. Now I field strip them on the dinning room table without so much as a second look. She's been to the range with me and wants to go more... she really sees it as a completely legitimate sport and wants to be somewhat involved. She also finds it mildly amusing when we're going out and I tell her that I'm packing heat...

MEN- there is hope... never think otherwise.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I'm also very frustrated that most American Jews look down on self-defense of any kind, and hate guns (would like to see all of them banned, except for police and military)!!

Recent reflections on the politics of most American Jews that I know have led me to a few clues:

- Most are Dems,
- Most believe in all the social programs that gov't can possibly run,
- They believe in higher taxes for all that earn money and welfare for all that won't/can't work to bring them up to a middle-class existence,
- Most won't question anything that someone from gov't tells them to do or not do!
- They want and expect the gov't to take care of them when something goes wrong (crime, disaster, etc.)!

Pardon me, but just thinking about it makes me sick!

 

[Emoto]

There are a lot of clubs around that have trap or skeet. If she liked that, then take her to a clb offering that and have an enjoyable afternoon.

Some clubs, like mine in Hanson have various shoots for the ladies that are run by women. These tend to be small, low-key affairs. Hanson is a long way from Tyngsboro, but you'd be welcome.

 

[Hamar]

I'm no history expert.. but didn't Hitler disarm all the Jews and others before he started the genocide?

Yep..just a little while after he forced folks to register their guns.........

It was 1,2,3

1. Register all firearms

2. confisgate all registered firearms

3. proceed with his elimination plans.

If people forget their history, They are bound to repeat it.............

 

[Martlet]

Did you try THIS GUY?

He may be able to help you out.

 

[MrsWildweasel]

That's funny. Wonder if it will work for him.

 

[dreppucci007]

That's freakin' funny! Good luck to him.

 

[bpm990d]

Yep..just a little while after he forced folks to register their guns.........

He built on the work of the Weimar Republic. They were the ones that got everyone to register their firearms. There was a lot of chaos at the time of the Weimar governments and they were trying to get a handle on the Communist and FrieKorp that would battle in the streets. It was thought that registration would help get a grip on things.

B

 

[Coyote33]

I changed your quote a little for current events:

Menino built on the work of the former mayor. They were the ones that got everyone to register their firearms. There was a lot of chaos at the time of the former governments and they were trying to get a handle on the gangbangers that would battle in the streets. It was thought that registration would help get a grip on things.

 

[dwarven1]

Uh... Martlett, do I want to know how you found that site?

 

[codenamepaul]

"In modern Hebrew and Yiddish, the word goy may be used to refer to members of the Gentile nations."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goy

I couldn't figure out what being Jewish had to do with it either, but I do understand what it is like to get a S.O. to be open minded. If I butchered the term blame it on the Irish Catholic in me. I guess some might say it is pejorative but I don't see it that way.
B

Anyone who knows what it means would take it as such. It refers to Gentiles basically as cattle.You can carry it from there to where to wish.

There is a reason that Jewish people are 1)Generally Democratic/Liberal and 2) Anti-Gun. And both are completely out of "character" given the religion and history. There must be something to that.

 

[Martlet]

Uh... Martlett, do I want to know how you found that site?

I submitted Brent's photo.

 

[dwarven1]

 

[Coyote33]

Doesn't everybody have a hardwired phone? I guess I'm not sure what you mean by that.

Don't all bedroom doors have locks?


You mean one of these? Cold Steel® Brooklyn Smasher™

Off topic, but I guess these might be out.

Wood Or Metal? Beacon Hill Debates Baseball Bats

 

[Jose]

There is a reason that Jewish people are 1)Generally Democratic/Liberal and 2) Anti-Gun. And both are completely out of "character" given the religion and history. There must be something to that.

Care to explain for those of us who are not Jewish?

Because for the life of me I truly cannot comprehend those trends given the history of the Jewish people in the 20th century.

 

[dwarven1]

Hell, I'm Jewish and I'D love to hear an explanation!! Both my folks are/were Democratic/Liberal and my mother has an advanced case of BDS (Bush Derangement Syndrome). . And we won't even talk about my sister the vegetarian, anti-gun, anti-military hippie.

 

[massnut]

Thanks for the Input

Thank you one and all who replied to my post. Having carefully read all of your responses to what is a sticky question, I have some comments and answers to your questions. In no particular order of importance . . .

Why is the religion angle important? According to my wife (and many, many others) Nice Jewish Boys (NJBs) such as myself are “supposed” to believe that guns are evil / bad. I know, I know, the irony is huge. We Jews have endured a violent history, dating back well past 586 BCE (Before the Common Era). However, in almost every case, violent action by Jews has be as a reaction to a threat. Very rarely has the Jewish community as a whole ever responded with pre-emptive violence.

And to the point made about this being not a problem of religion but rather one of liberal bias . . . I agree completely.

I believe introducing my wife to other Lady gun owners who are also on the feminine side of the spectrum (not too butch, rough around the edges, etc.) would be somewhat of a help. After all, I am trying to overcome a deep-seated bias based in fear & lack of proper education. She’s also concerned about how all of her lib-tard tree-hugging friends will perceive her knuckle-dragging, mouth-breathing, gun-lovin’ hubby.

A suggestion was made that we attend a safety course together. I have softly suggested this to her in the past. I got at best a cool reaction. Seems like I need to suggest it again.

Regarding jpfo.org, I fear that JPFO would be more of a put-off for my wife than a help. It does seem to be a pretty radical organization. I suspect that if I am ever to at least gain my wife’s acceptance, if not outright approval, I’ll need to take baby steps. Showing her JPFO would be like asking a 4 year old to run the Boston marathon.

Rabbi Mermelstein appears to be a strictly orthodox fellow. My wife does not have a fondness for the orthodox life style. I suspect some of his thoughts & ideas would be viewed much like those of jpfo.

Jewish gun owners as pigs -- my wife thinks they’re pigs because they are pigs AND because they own & have enjoyed their guns & related activities.

House intruders . . . our almost six-year old daughter has taken to opening the doors to get fresh air. I sat back and listened while my wife explained how bad people could be living in the woods out behind our house, just waiting for the doors to be opened. In a way, she’s opened the door to the idea that a call to 911 and a baseball bat next to the night stand may not be a fast enough response to an intruder, even though we live in a “safe” neighborhood. I'll be careful as to how I approach this discussion topic.

Goose . . . I live & work not more than 30 minutes from Burlington. I’m north, but still in MA. Perhaps we could arrange a meeting for a shooting outing . . . you & your wife with me & mine. I don’t know if I could convince her, but I think it would be worth a try. Please email me @ [email protected] or PM via the forum. Thanks. And as far as the “hardware” is concerned, I’d start her on nothing more than a .22lr. She’ deathly afraid of all guns, and I think would be bothered by any recoil stronger than that of a .22 – at least initially. And for those who suggested shotguns, even lightly loaded for trap and/or skeet . . . I think the fear factor would be a big putoff for her.

KenM. I am literally about 10 minute’s drive from Westford Sportsmen’s and have a number of friends who live in Westford. Perhaps we could email / PM and arrange for a family outing . . . I also work with at least one member of your club. Either way, we should talk, meet for coffee, etc.

Discuss the history, beginning from 1938. My wife is well aware of the Nov. 1938 Kristallnacht event. She is also aware of how my ancestors left europe in the late 1800’s and early 1900’s to escape the pogroms. This is the US . . . stuff like that just can’t happen here is not only her response, but her ardent belief. Yet almost every day, I see how our once- and still-great nation is being slowly invaded from the southern border by hipsanics and others.

For those who have suggested divorce . . . forget it. It’s a short-sighted reaction to a problem which can be overcome by other means.

Again, thank you all for your input. I hope to report back that I’ve made some progress in overcoming this challenge.

 

[Supermoto]

My wife was pretty liberal and anti-gun, didn't want to see them, didn't care to hear me talk about them. I convinced her to go shooting, went to the range with a .22, she had a good time because the gun was quiet and no one else was there. I took again and also had my M1a socom, she freaked out. Said she hate guns. hate the people with the guns and thought less of me. little target guns were OK, big bad guns were for killing people So I came up with a plan,

everyday I showed what a crappy world we lived in. made a point of always having the news on, told her stories of people get mugged, raped, kill near her work or on the T system. I showed her how the Mayor blames crime on objects and not criminals. I worked everything in slowly, never pushing or telling her she was wrong, just showing her. Showed her that she has to be responsible for her safety.


About 6 months into my plan, she asked what gun i used for Home defense and why. Right then I saw my plan was coming together, making some progress.

A couple months after that, we were watching a show about terrorist and she actually said, she was happy that I have guns to protect her

and my plan was complete when we were watching blackhawk down. and she actually cheered out loud with a bunch of solmolians got take out with a mini gun

Take your time and they can be converted

 

[Jose]

My wife is well aware of the Nov. 1938 Kristallnacht event. She is also aware of how my ancestors left europe in the late 1800’s and early 1900’s to escape the pogroms. This is the US . . . stuff like that just can’t happen here is not only her response, but her ardent belief.

Does she think that the lynching of blacks because they looked at a white woman never happened? After all, this IS the US and stuff like that just can't happen here!

Ask her to identify police protecting individual citizens during the Rodney King riots. Show here pictures of New Orleans cops joining into the looting.

Ask her if she still thinks that "the system" will always protect her.

I truly feel sorry for people with your wife's belief system. When societal order breaks down, it is people who think like her who will be the first to be victimized.

 

[codenamepaul]

massnut-
Show her some anti-semitic material from the 30's from right here in the US. Find a copy of Henry Ford's Dearborn newspaper or his book-The International Jew. Then, see if she thinks it can happen here. I have made an extensive personal study of anti-Jewish and anti-Zionist sentiments. Mainly because I had no clue as to why Jewish people always seem to be on the recieving end of the wet stick.

I live in "central" MA, just west of Springfield. I shoot at the Quaboag Sportsmans Club. It is quiet, somewhat private, and rarely occupied. My safe is open to you if you desire a loaner. AR-15 may be a good rifle for her too. Ergonomically perfect, very light recoil. e-mail if you wish.

My 2

 

[Coyote33]

...I truly feel sorry for people with your wife's belief system. When societal order breaks down, it is people who think like her who will be the first to be victimized.

I don't think it is her "belief system" which is the problem here. It is just that she has been confused through years of being spoon fed lies by the news and politicians and others. It is merely an education process. Baby steps got her to this place, baby steps can get her back out and seeing clearly.

...I live in "central" MA, just west of Springfield. I shoot at the Quaboag Sportsmans Club. It is quiet, somewhat private, and rarely occupied. My safe is open to you if you desire a loaner. AR-15 may be a good rifle for her too. Ergonomically perfect, very light recoil. e-mail if you wish.

I am always amazed at people's generosity and openness here. Thank you codenamepaul (and others) for doing that. By the way, Warren is East of Springfield right near Sturbridge.

I was thinking a .22 rifle is a good starter with no kick and little noise. Once she sees others at the range making more noise, she might be interested at some time in the future. I was thinking an AR would be a good next step as well.

 

[Jose]

I don't think it is her "belief system" which is the problem here. It is just that she has been confused through years of being spoon fed lies by the news and politicians and others. It is merely an education process. Baby steps got her to this place, baby steps can get her back out and seeing clearly.

Is that not how belief systems are acquired?

 

[rclarkston]

My wife is well aware of the Nov. 1938 Kristallnacht event. She is also aware of how my ancestors left europe in the late 1800’s and early 1900’s to escape the pogroms. This is the US . . . stuff like that just can’t happen here is not only her response, but her ardent belief. Yet almost every day, I see how our once- and still-great nation is being slowly invaded from the southern border by hipsanics and others.

I do find it amazing that many in this country delude themselves into believing that the problem is solely the existence of the State of Israel. Therefore, the Islamo Facists are only interested in killing Jews in Israel. Well, Israel and probably France. Why France? Because the French would likely not only allow it to happen, but would also help round up the Jews just as they did for the Germans.

It is a pretty naive luxury we have as Americans to believe that the Islamo Facist threat to the Jew won't travel to American soil as well.

 

[Coyote33]

Is that not how belief systems are acquired?

I guess. Or at least altered. Good point. Then again, I bet she has this, and her base beliefs, which might be contrary to what she has been taught (by the media). Again, it comes down to education and patience.

 

[dwarven1]

I do find it amazing that many in this country delude themselves into believing that the problem is solely the existence of the State of Israel. Therefore, the Islamo Facists are only interested in killing Jews in Israel. Well, Israel and probably France.

Somehow, I suspect that the Islamofacists are interested in killing Christians, Buddhists, Wiccans, Mormans, and probably Unitarian Universalists, too.

 

[Sixgun]

Here is a good website detailing an ex-libs conversion to gun ownership.

http://www.a-human-right.com/

 

[icyclefar]

Massnut - While I am another Jewish gun owner , I'm sure I would also land in the traif (pig) category . I would be happy to loan you my 10 year old, Jewish day school attending son and his 15 year old Jewish day school attending sister to give your wife some basic firearms training and some range time. These kids have excellent skills, and the cuteness factor might just win her over. Just make sure you are not shooting against my 10 year old, his aim is better than most full grown Jewish guys out there. Myself included.