I remember those days too, and I'm just 24!
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It's finally here...restriction of FREE SPEECH!!!
- Thread starter Zombieoutfitters
- Start date
I remember those days too, and I'm just 24!
HorizontalHunter
NES Member
Hoo,
You make an interesting point about being in a "private abode" I hadn't considered that.
I was at the range on day last summer and a man brought his two sons who were about 10 years old to shoot on the range. I heard one of kids the swear, as did the dad. He called his son on it and packed all of the weapons and equipment up to go back home. Never fired a shot.
Bob
Bob
In my dads day if an adult swore in front of someone's wife or mother they would quickly be sternly reminded to be polite in front of a lady and quite often the tone implied an ass whoopin if complaince was not met. Kinda wish I was around in that era instead of this one sometimes.
I can't wait to use that.
There is no such thing as a "right" not to hear what one might consider vulgar or offensive language. Consider the objectivity of that idea. What exactly is "vulgar" and "offensive"? Do we "know it when we (hear) it"?
I thought that was a great line also. Never heard it before. If Zombie holds the copyright on it, do we have to pay him royalties to use it?
![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
Oops!
Are all of these something you want the forum owner's 8 year old to be reading? (-;
How so? What exactly is that right? If someone doesn't like what they consider to be offensive speech, they can change the channel or walk away. As long as it isn't slanderous, dangerous or threatening, speech is speech. The listener can choose to tune in or get lost.
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dwarven1
Lonely Mountain Arms
I don't know about "vulgar" but I hear the "offensive" type every time I hear our President speak... along with his VP and the Speaker of the House.
![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
Because there is no "right to not have to listen" to something.
Take your wife and kids out to a "family restaurant" and hear it. Then tell me if you still want to make that point. There's nothing wrong with a community enforcing reasonable standards of decency. It's when we fail to recognize objective standards that everything slides into the kind of moral relativism that has made our society into a freak show.
No, you don't have to patronize that particular restaurant. But keep running from it, and eventually you'll have no place to run to, and your kids will be destined to grow up in a deviant and corrupted world.
If I hear that crap in a public place, or on private property which I'm paying to be allowed into, I'm going to speak up. There are some things that you can't say in public, and that's not automatically a bad thing.
Old prude, I am. I guess.
You have the right to walk away from the person speaking or change the channel or radio station. You don't have the right to muzzle someone saying something you don't like.
HooVooLoo
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If a community enforces "reasonable standards of deceny", then you do not have an objective moral standard. It is biased for that particular community, based upon what THAT COMMUNITY decides a standard or morality rule should be.
Just look at the FLDS Mormons (Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints), who still practice polygamy. They were founded around the border area of Arizona-Utah about 90 years ago.
So please, Zippy, define "objective".
I thought polygamy was illegal in the US. Hmm ...
Swearing like a drunken sailor in a restaurant ought to be. Illegal, that is. Once upon a time, that was just a common sense thing. I guess we called that ... objective. This is, of course, before society became a cesspool of degradation and perversity. If you grew up in a cesspool, I suppose you might not know it stinks.
I think I'll get my nose pierced ...
HooVooLoo
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Doesn't matter whether or not it is illegal...It does still happen, and continues to.
Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you my servant Joseph, that inasmuch as you have inquired of my hand to know and understand wherein I, the Lord, justified my servants Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as also Moses, David and Solomon, my servants, as touching the principle and doctrine of their having many wives and concubines--
And it continues at the bottom...
39. David's wives and concubines were given unto him of me, by the hand of Nathan, my servant, and others of the prophets who had the keys of this power; and in none of these things did he sin against me save in the case of Uriah and his wife; and, therefore, he hath fallen from his exaltation, and received his portion; and he shall not inherit them out of the world, for I gave them unto another, saith the Lord.
The bottom line is...Legal or not, people will do what they do, if they believe that what they are doing is right, subjectivley.
Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you my servant Joseph, that inasmuch as you have inquired of my hand to know and understand wherein I, the Lord, justified my servants Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as also Moses, David and Solomon, my servants, as touching the principle and doctrine of their having many wives and concubines--
And it continues at the bottom...
39. David's wives and concubines were given unto him of me, by the hand of Nathan, my servant, and others of the prophets who had the keys of this power; and in none of these things did he sin against me save in the case of Uriah and his wife; and, therefore, he hath fallen from his exaltation, and received his portion; and he shall not inherit them out of the world, for I gave them unto another, saith the Lord.
The bottom line is...Legal or not, people will do what they do, if they believe that what they are doing is right, subjectivley.
What? Oh ... never mind.
I really don't think this thread could fall any further into the sh*tter. ![[rolleyes]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/042.gif "Roll Eyes [rolleyes]")
Just because someone *can* be rude, obnoxious, obscene, or vulgar does not mean they should.. rights or not. As with power freedom also requires responsibility. That responsibility is common courtesy to others... that is what sets a decent member of society apart from the primal jackasses with no social aptitude. I drop the f-bomb like it is a bodily function but only when I am reasonably sure it is acceptable, appropriate, and in not obnoxious to others. And if I unnecessarily offend someone I will apologize as I would expect them to do the same. (and if they don't get the hint I will politely avoid them). You don't have to be religious to figure out the golden rule is called that for a reason.
Just because someone *can* be rude, obnoxious, obscene, or vulgar does not mean they should.. rights or not. As with power freedom also requires responsibility. That responsibility is common courtesy to others... that is what sets a decent member of society apart from the primal jackasses with no social aptitude. I drop the f-bomb like it is a bodily function but only when I am reasonably sure it is acceptable, appropriate, and in not obnoxious to others. And if I unnecessarily offend someone I will apologize as I would expect them to do the same. (and if they don't get the hint I will politely avoid them). You don't have to be religious to figure out the golden rule is called that for a reason.
No it shouldn't. However, the owner of said restaurant has the right, by virtue of his ownership of the property, to tell that person to stop swearing or get out. And if the owner chooses not to stop that person or make them leave than all the other patrons have the right to send a message to that owner by leaving and not patronizing his establishment any more. When his bottom line starts to suffer because Larry the lush can't control his tongue he will get rid of Larry. That's the way rights and free will work.
Don't like what's going on at a particular place, patronize another one and encourage your friends to do the same. But please don't go crying to the government to take away more freedom so you can feel good that you forced your will on Larry and the restaurant owner.
Said bar? Uh, yeah. Whatever. Thanks for the ... Libertarian point of view.
Once upon a time the common sense thing was for the owner or his manager(s) to just kick out the belligerent patrons- no need for this "There ought to be a law!!!" crap, that got us in the huge mess we're in now. For most of these social problems, there is little need to involve the force of government. Now we live in a society where instead of someone saying "You mind not using that language in front of my children?" people would rather have the government swear citation dispenser displayed earlier in this thread...
-Mike
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flintoid
Banned
Once upon a time the common sense thing was for the owner or his manager(s) to just kick out the belligerent patrons- no need for this "There ought to be a law!!!" crap, that got us in the huge mess we're in now. For most of these social problems, there is little need to involve the force of government. Now we live in a society where instead of someone saying "You mind not using that language in front of my children?" people would rather have the government swear citation dispenser displayed earlier in
this thread...
-Mike
couldn't have been said any better. Thank you.
Once upon a time the common sense thing was for the owner or his manager(s) to just kick out the belligerent patrons- no need for this "There ought to be a law!!!" crap, that got us in the huge mess we're in now. For most of these social problems, there is little need to involve the force of government. Now we live in a society where instead of someone saying "You mind not using that language in front of my children?" people would rather have the government swear citation dispenser displayed earlier in
this thread...
-Mike
Unfortunately, incivility is more than just accepted today. It's the norm. There are few public places you can go without being bombarded by profanity, or worse. Getting tough to take the kids out somewhere without them being exposed to it.
About ten years ago, I took my kid fishing in Douglas, a place we went often. A quiet, out of the way place. Before too long some wiggers drove up, blasting the most obscene rap "music" I had heard, up to that time. Un-buh-leevable.
We can disagree on this one, but I think ... there ought to be a law.
Failing that, it may be time that some inconsiderate louts were pulled dead from a ditch, having suffered severe machete wounds. But, there's prolly a law against that.
...For most of these social problems, there is little need to involve the force of government. Now we live in a society where instead of someone saying "You mind not using that language in front of my children?" people would rather have the government swear citation dispenser displayed earlier in this thread...
See post #65.
I have been trying , seriously , to just keep my " mouth " shut on this board. Too easy to irritate people. I keep thinking it's got to me ... then I see something like this thread.
There is something seriously wrong with anyone who wants to make laws about which words I can use.
There was a big story last night on Local Fox news about a move to ban the word " Retard ."
... Wait. Just stop before you get all pissed off because you have a child cousin brother with an issue of some kind .....
The word " retard " IS used cruelly. I know. It's also a verb. it's existence is neutral , It's use has ramifications. - remind anyone of ..... guns ?
1st the F-bomb , then " retard " , next : " Bad " ... How about " Hussein " ? I watched the word " Hussein " get banned by the major media and the McCain Camp during the election. How'd that work out for us ?
If someone says " lets frown upon coarse language." I'll entertain the thought seriously , in limited parameters. When you talk about legislation you can FOAD.
There is something seriously wrong with anyone who wants to make laws about which words I can use.
There was a big story last night on Local Fox news about a move to ban the word " Retard ."
... Wait. Just stop before you get all pissed off because you have a child cousin brother with an issue of some kind .....
The word " retard " IS used cruelly. I know. It's also a verb. it's existence is neutral , It's use has ramifications. - remind anyone of ..... guns ?
1st the F-bomb , then " retard " , next : " Bad " ... How about " Hussein " ? I watched the word " Hussein " get banned by the major media and the McCain Camp during the election. How'd that work out for us ?
If someone says " lets frown upon coarse language." I'll entertain the thought seriously , in limited parameters. When you talk about legislation you can FOAD.
This is just going to end up being like the smoking ban in public places. For decades business owners had the right to decide whether or not to allow the people to smoke in their establishments. Then you had a few business owners who didn't want to allow smoking, but also didn't want to lose the business of smokers, so they have the state create a law to making their choice mandatory for everyone. They get their way and don't lose the business of the people they want to hurt. The language resolution has no teeth now, but maybe not in 10 years.
As for all the Demolition Man references, we're well on our way to living like that. The government already tells us what we can and can't eat (FDA, bans on transfats, etc), where we can/can't drink or smoke, tries to ban private ownership of weapons, and now is trying to restrict free speech (both as stated in this thread, and with the restrictions on web and radio that they want to pass). With how much real life has been imitating that movie, expect California to have a massive earthquake sometime this year.
As for all the Demolition Man references, we're well on our way to living like that. The government already tells us what we can and can't eat (FDA, bans on transfats, etc), where we can/can't drink or smoke, tries to ban private ownership of weapons, and now is trying to restrict free speech (both as stated in this thread, and with the restrictions on web and radio that they want to pass). With how much real life has been imitating that movie, expect California to have a massive earthquake sometime this year.
I agree that you should speak up if you or your family are offended. The owner of an establishment is also well within his or her right to throw out on their ass anyone who is offending other customers. Offensive speech, however, is not and should not be legally enforceable. Moral standards should be dictated by the community, not the government.
