Iraqi sniper video !!WARNING!!

Yeah, I've seen some of these over on youtube. Very disturbing and sad. But this is war. It is what happens. Pray for our soldiers over there and for a victory soon so we can bring them home.
 
That IS what snipers do; ours or theirs.

Unlike "suicide bombers" and IEDs, they are target-specific with no collateral damage.
 
derek said:
BULLSHIT. They are sucker punch cheap shots from shit bags in civilian clothing.

The rules of war require a f***ing uniform.
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I don't disagree on the sentiment but if they were in our country, would you put on a uniform just so you could shoot them? If I remember right we had quite a few 'revolutionaries' in 'civvies' in 1776 and also quite a few in the War of the Rebellion.

It's called guerilla warfare...and it's effective.
 
Pilgrim said:
I don't disagree on the sentiment but if they were in our country, would you put on a uniform just so you could shoot them? If I remember right we had quite a few 'revolutionaries' in 'civvies' in 1776 and also quite a few in the War of the Rebellion.

It's called guerilla warfare...and it's effective.
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Still a sucker punch.
 
I am not so concerned with the fact their are fighting or revolting. It's their behavior when they are not fighting or revolting, the murder and torture etc. that concern me. What they are fighting FOR is what is unacceptable in the case of snipers, not the method.
 
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derek said:
I don't understand this part of your post.
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Sniping is a legitimate way of fighting. Revolting against an invading nation who is trying to force you to accept their system of government (democracy) is legitimate. Revolting so you can slaughter, kidnap, and torture innocent people, and force your way of life on the rest of the populace is not legitimate. I think these are distinctly different things.

As Scrivener and Pilgrim have pointed out, how is it any different from the sniping that the US does? It's kind of like distinguishing between the sin and the sinner. Hate the sin, not the sinner. Sin = reason they fight and things they want to do when they have won, sinner = sniping a legitimate method of fighting.

Anyone see the video of some Blackwater operatives with ARs and a fifty booming nearby taking on a buttload of people from a roof top? They were literally shooting fish in a barrel, unarmored and essentially unarmed opponents. They were doing so in defence of their lives and I am not faulting them or anything, but should they have done something different to make it sporting? I certainly don't think so.

Reminds me of a scene from the first episode of Firefly, "Been a long time since Patience shot me and that was due to a perfectly legitimate conflict of interest. I got no grudge."
 
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adweisbe said:
As Scrivener and Pilgrim have pointed out, how is it any different from the sniping that the US does?
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It's different in many ways. The U.S. soldiers do not walk around in civilian clothing waiting for a patrol or supply convoy to sucker punch. They are not members of a former opressive military not wanting to give up their power. And lastly they are there because the Iraqi people and government wants them there.

They are not forcing democracy on the majority, the majority wants a democracy.

If you want to paint them as freedom fighters that's on you.
 
C-pher said:
While I do agree with you Derek. The U.S. soldiers do go into someplace in advance and wait for a patrol or convoy. But the only difference is they do it in Uniform.
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Thank you captain obvious. The uniform thing kinda makes it a sucker punch doesn't it? If all I see is civilians at the end of a street and one pulls out a rifle and smokes one of my guys, that's a little different than the Marines waiting to ambush a f***ing patrol of Iraqi Army soliders...

Thanks for keeping me informed on military techniques...
 
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I think it gutless and cowardly of these "insurgents" to snipe at our guys and then just melt into the crowd in civilian rags. I guess Allah isn't quite good enough to stand up and fight openly for. I thought martyrdom was what these clowns all aspire to.
 
adweisbe said:
I am not so concerned with the fact their are fighting or revolting. It's their behavior when they are not fighting or revolting, the murder and torture etc. that concern me. What they are fighting FOR is what is unacceptable in the case of snipers, not the method.
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Agreed. Targeting civilians, executing prisoners and defiling bodies are "beyond te pale" by civilized standards. Use of snipers is not.

And when did ghillie suits become a uniform?
 
They are freedom fighters. Doesn't make them good people or what they are fighting for right. It also doesn't justify the majority of their methods which I cannot accept even with my tolerance for moral relativism.

They are not forcing democracy on the majority, the majority wants a democracy.
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Democracy has it's faults too. The tyranny of the majority comes to mind. Democracy in America by Alexis de Tocqueville.


And lastly they are there because the Iraqi people and government wants them there.
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Is that so clear cut? It is highly likely you know more about the Iraq issue right now then I do so please if you know something that would add perspective or more correct data to the link please let me know.

The U.S. soldiers do not walk around in civilian clothing
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So who exactly made the rules of war and judged that they be good and true? I think that guerilla warfare, especially as part of concerted campaign to bring about political change or resist invaders, is perfectly legitimate. It has been pointed out that the same tactics were used to found our own country.


To me it is not black and white that what we are forcing on many of them is right or good for them. Neither is it black and white that their resistance is illegitimate (although the majority of their methods are). Sniping (even out of uniform) is a legitimate method IMO and denying that is to dehumanize them relative to ourselves. They are literally voting from the rooftops for their choice of government, a strict Islamic theocracy or dictatorship.
 
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[



Is that so clear cut? It is highly likely you know more about the Iraq issue right now then I do so please if you know something that would add perspective or more correct data to the link please let me know.

Well lets put it this way. I personally will believe my son and anyone else serving in the military that has had actual dealings with the Iraqi people over some news agency.[angry] Now if you want to believe all the drivel that is printed that is your perogative. Also depends on which faction they were talking with for that interview and where.
Our son has been ALL OVER Iraq, and some areas absolutely love our guys, and some don't. What you don't hear are the stories of the good that our servicemembers are doing and the appreciation for them being there also.
Also the lines of Iraqis to train to be police etc, even though they are being targeted by their own people and blown up because of their belief that democracy will work. They do this day after day.
 
In reading some of these replies, I am rendered speechless.







O.K., I'm over it. Equating terrorists in Iraq to America Militia during the Revolutionary War has got to be the most offensive thing I've heard in a long time.
 
These are the same "freedom fighters" who would pilot planes into buildings to kill as many American civilians as they could.
 
JonJ said:
They aren't fighting for freedom! They're fighting for oppression and tyranny!
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They are fighting for the freedom to live under oppression and tyranny, subtle difference ;-) This where the moral relativism comes in. They want to follow their religion strictly to the letter. A large number of people do not want that, another large number wants something in between, and another large number is supportive of oppression and tyranny because it is the way God intended them to live. Eventually one of those numbers is going to take over Iraq and I think it is not at all clear what the majority of the populace wants. Consider especially that many of the options of tyranny and oppresion some want isn't even on the ballot.

Say hypothetically that the larger number truly does want the tyranny and oppression. Such a country and culture the majority will be slap happy cheating on their wives and then executing them for whatever offense it is that they execute wives. The "oppressed" woman may even be supportive of this and consider it correct and proper! Maybe it's Stockholm syndrome, maybe they think it will get them to heaven, maybe they think it is right because that is what they were told to think from day one.

We do need to bring back a dose of reality, it is not clear that they are fighting solely for what our culture perceives to be a strict religious government. They are also fighting for genocide and they are fighting in the worst possible way. What's worse is that not all of them are even looking for the same thing though they do fight together. Not black and white at all.

Jon, your lumping them all together and your also mixing their methods with their reasons. The most extreme of them are fighting because they want to destroy every non-muslim country in the world. Those are the ones flying planes into buildings.
 
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Jon, your lumping them all together and your also mixing their methods with their reasons. The most extreme of them are fighting because they want to destroy every non-muslim country in the world. Those are the ones flying planes into buildings.

How many muslims have you heard say anything against any of that? What's that the sound of crickets I hear.
 
MrsWildweasel said:
How many muslims have you heard say anything against any of that? What's that the sound of crickets I hear.
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Some didn't care. Some cheered. Some sympathized. Not so black and white. How much do you think you know about the international reaction to 9/11? What news sources were you relying on at the time? NBC? CNN? Fox News? The American newspapers? How much of what was going on around the world do you think they actually bothered to show you? Again not so black and white. There is a wealth of information there and few nations can be painted with one broad stroke of the brush.

I cannot spend more time on this tangent, I want to keep this on the legitimacy of snipers in guerilla warfare.
 
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