Informing police officer of carry

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IrishIron

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I am from MA and according to the law you do not have to inform an officer that you are carrying when pulled over for a simple traffic stop. My question is this, Has anyone had experience informing an officer of carry and how was the reaction? I am wondering if it is advantageous at all to let him/her know or whether it would turn into a huge hassle.

I just wanted to see people's exeperiences with this.

Thanks
IrishIron
 
Rule 1: Nobody likes surprises.

I never bother mentioning that I'm carrying, unless there's some reasonable chance that the officer might detect it. Assuming I'm driving at the time I keep both hands firmly planted on the top of the wheel where they were when the officer first approached the car. (If it's at night I already turned on the interior lights as I stopped.) I also got out my drivers license and registration as soon as I stopped, leaving my wallet up on the dash. If I'm asked to get out or do anything else that might let my gun show, I'll say first that I've got my LTC in the wallet on the dash and that I'm carrying, then ask exactly how they'd like to proceed. Since obviously been going out of my way toe make things easy from the beginning, they'll usually take their que from that. I've only had to mention it twice in over 30 years, but others I've talked with who've taken the same approach have had similar results.

Ken
 
Just had this discussion with two fellow LEOs a week ago . . .

In MA, few LEOs (relatively speaking) know much about any guns, least of all models that they don't carry on duty. If you were to volunteer the info unnecessarily you are likely to be eating dirt/asphalt and create a very dangerous and unfriendly experience for yourself! [If a LEO that wasn't familiar with the 1911 attempted to unload it, I'd give it a ~25% chance of a ND . . . you can just hope it is pointed in a safe direction (no bets there either).]

If and ONLY IF it might be spotted by a LEO, then keep your hands visible and let them know immediately . . . they will tell you what to do from there. [This was the consensus amongst all three of the LEOs when we discussed it last week.]

I was stopped twice over the years while CCW'g and there was no reason to mention it . . . all went well.

If you are requested to step out of the vehicle in MA, you are most likely going for a ride in silver (colored) bracelets! By all means speak up before exiting the car. We don't drag people out of the car or search vehicle for simple MV violations up here (unlike a lot of Southern states).
 
derek said:
The ALP CCW doesnt show up when they run your plates?
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No, it doesn't. I don't know if it's the same out east, but here, you can just run a Q Two 1 with the license plate number if the registered owner is the operator. That checks for:
1- stolen vehicle
2- valid driver's license
3- valid registration
4- wants/warrants

If the operator is not the registered owner, you have to give more info, including the reg number, driver's license number and operator's name, and ask for a 9, 10, 11 and 14. That will give you all the info above.

No information at all is given about gun ownership, etc. You even have to ask for a driver's history seperate if you want one.

I've only been stopped while carrying once before I was LE, and I didn't say anything to the officer, and he never knew (and yes, it was a cocked and locked 1911). Since then, I've only been stopped once, but that was in town, by an officer I worked with, because I was driving someone else's vehicle. Not an issue there, since they all know I have something on me anyway!
 
derek said:
Hawgleg44 said:
Not an issue there, since they all know I have something on me anyway!
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Yes, you're crazy! :D
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No, but I like them all to think I am!

I always get the comments at qualification day like "Damn, glad you're on our side", or "If I ever get a domestic call to your house, I'm calling for a LOT of backup." I remember sighting in my AR right after we got them on a grant. The other officers were shooting decent sized groups, some better than others. I sighted mine in off the sandbags. The ex-chief started talking crap when we were walking up to my target because he only saw one hole in it. But, looking at it closer, it was a nice clover leaf hole from my 3 shots. I got the "You're sick" comment, yet again.

In the middle of a crowd at the Memorial Day Parade here in town, one of the cops working the detail came right up to me, and asked out loud "So, what are you packing today?" So, I told him my S&W 3953. Then he said "What else?" I guess he did know me well, since I had my little Colt Junior .25, too. :D
 
I've never been asked (yet), but if I am I will smile politely at the nice officer, make sure my hands are gripping the wheel and tell him that I have a Class A LTC. I will then politely ask him why he wanted to know. I will only tell him where it is if he asks me to step out of the car, I will then do that, making sure hands are still on the wheel and I will proceed to tell him where in my purse he can find my LTC. All done with a very pleasant smile.

BTW - he has to have a reason to search your car - you DO NOT have to agree to it if he just asks with no apparent reason. Little known right that's taken advantage of frequently.
 
Lynne said:
BTW - he has to have a reason to search your car - you DO NOT have to agree to it if he just asks with no apparent reason. Little known right that's taken advantage of frequently.
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Are you a lawyer? Or did you stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night?
What is taken advantage of? Consent searches? How is that taking advantage of anyone?

Careful who's advice you take people... If the officer demands a search, you refusing is just more sh*t for you to get into. He's already got enough reasonable suspision to conduct the search, regardles of what you "know" or "think", or what is an "apparent reason" to you.

If "asked", you can deny, if you have the whitt or balls.... 99/100 times, the asking is a courtesy, as the RS/PC has already been established and the search will be conducted, with or without your permision.


I wonder how many people who talk so much like they're constitutional experts actualy try their tactics on the street....
 
Republic of Mass said:
I wonder how many people who talk so much like they're constitutional experts actualy try their tactics on the street....
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Dearheart,

He DOES need a reason to search your car. IF he doesn't have a reason, there's an Constitutional Amendment against illegal search. If he pulls me over for a tail light that's out and asks if he can search my car just because I have a 2nd Amendment bumper sticker on my rear - he CAN'T, and I have the right to refuse, as does everyone else on this list. And even in this god forsaken state, the judge will throw it out of court.

You get more with honey than you do with vinegar, RofM. Next time you have an issue with something I type, I suggest you moderate your tone of reply before hitting submit.
 
I've often wondered what I would do if I were pulled over when I was carrying. I guess now I know. Kepp my mouth shut.

I have a friend that was stopped when he was carrying. The first thing he did was put his hands on the wheel. Inform the officer that he had it on his hip. Handed the officer both his license and LTC and asked what he wanted to do next.

He was let off with a warning because he said that the officer was happy that he was honest from the start.

I think that it would depend on who stops you. But that you never know until after you've been stopped.

So I think that if or when I do get pulled over, and I'm carrying, I think that I'll just keep my mouth shut.
 
I was pulled over about a week ago. Before the officer got out of his car I had my window down and my hands on top of the wheel. When he asked for my license I told him that it's in my left back pocket in my wallet, then took my wallet out and handed him my license. He asked for my registration next and I told him that it was in the glove box and he took it out. Now I was on my way to do some maintenance at work, so I was carrying, but I was only covering with a T-shirt. My rig was on at the 4 O'clock position, and I seriously contemplated handing him my LTC before I went for the registration because I thought I would print horribly when I leaned forward and reached for the glove box. I decided to not mention it, and apparently he didn't see it either because I wasn't asked. The reason why I didn't have anything out and ready for him was because I was pulled over once a few years ago and got out my license and registration and had it in my hand as the officer came to the window with his gun drawn. Apparently he got nervous that I was moving around and reaching before he got to the door. He had his finger on the trigger and ready to take me down.... No feeling quite like that. After the incident, he apologized for the gun, but told me that in the future if I would like to be courteous to an officer pulling me over, the best thing I could do was to pull over, roll my window down and keep my hands on the wheel until instructed to move. I could see his point, so now I use that all the time...


Adam
 
I'm in MA, too.

If the stop is routine, keep hands in plain sight, and be polite. I would not mention it until and unless it became "relevant" (like if I had to get out of the vehicle for some reason).
However, if I was involved in, or witnessed, an accident or something of that nature and would be interviewed or questioned, I would absolutely inform the officer in the most non-aggressive manner possible. I completely understand a LEO's concerns here. After all, he doesn't know me from Adam. Thankfully, I'm a pretty dull guy, and I rarely have any dealings with LE. :D
 
one of the very most important rules about carry is "Nobody Knows unless they have to".

Think about it. Would you, as a policeperson, stopping a vehicle act ANY differently if you knew the person was licensed and possibly armed?

An officer I know well (who spends most of his time these days teaching rookies all the things that the academy doesn't) has told me that he could pull up license info on his in-car, but that it is useless information. There are so many unlicensed guns out there that it is just prudent to go into every situation alert and ready.

My only incident was at an accident. Was a cold snowy day. This guy pulls out of a Cumberland Farms right in front of me. I T-bone him.

He starts to move. NO FREAKING WAY. I have the Hudson police on the cell phone reporting it and I'm screaming at the guy to shut the car off. Police arrive, look at the scene, direct us to move to a side street, and collect our information.

I was in and out of the truck several times. The Sig on my hip was never an issue. Unless I was frisked they were never going to see it.

The guy was cited (always ask for the person who caused the acident to be cited as it makes the insurance claim easier) and we went our seperate ways. Ram 2500 1, Buick LeSaber 0. Never did get that busted bumper trim clip replaced. (^_^)
 
Whether she stayed in the Holiday Inn or not, Lynne is absolutely correct. If an officer asks to search your car, you certainly do not have to give permission. If he has a legal reason to do the search, he doesn't need your permission, so you're not causing any problem by saying no. (Of course saying no does not mean trying to resist or obstruct a search, legal or not.) If, on the other hand, he doesn't have a legal reason, then why should you say yes? Some officers may get all in a huff and try to intimidate you if you say no, but the fact that they want to do a search without any legal basis means that they, not you, have already moved the encounter beyond the nice and polite stage. Some of the less aware ones might also try to use your refusal to grant permission as constituting probable cause. Unfortunately for them, the Supremes disagree. So be polite, don't try to stop them if they insist, but there's no reason to give them permission to do something they otherwise would have no legal authority to do.

Ken
 
I forgot to mention it in my earlier post, but a few of these posts jogged my memory.

When you get pulled over, ther officer is watching you and how you are acting before he gets out of the cruiser, along with calling in his stop with your license plate number. I would highly recommend against getting you license and registration out before he gets to the car. Keep your hands on the wheel and get those items only after he is there and asks for them.

I've always done the same thing as Adam_MA did when I was pulled over. I never wanted a gun pointed at me, and my father told me when I first got my driver's license that keeping your hands in plain sight was the best way to insure the cops gun stays in his holster.
 
I have been advised, both in training and conversation, to keep it to myself unless asked to exit the vehicle. I am very rarely stopped but I have put myself in the position of the approaching officer and thought about what would give me the most confidence when approaching a vehicle.

The first thing I do is remove my sunglasses if wearing them so the officer can see my eyes. I do not go for a wallet or glove box until asked to produce my license and registration. I don't want the officer to wonder what I am fetching at that moment. Hands on top of wheel, dome light on. I'm sure that there are those who say I'm willingly oppressed but I am thinking of the officer in a stressful situation, not myself. I see it as a courtesy I can extend with nearly no effort.

My instructor passed on opinions from officers who have sat in on his classes. They say that the disclosure that you are carrying may oblige the officer to check you out when he would rather simply go on about his business or end his shift. These officers said that they would rather not know unless there was another issue involved.
 
Intersting read.

There's a similar thread going on at FAFFiles. http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=143837

IF you're in Vermont, and you get stopped, let the officer know if you're carrying, or if there are any firearms in the car. The LEOs are different up here, and due to our very lax gun laws, you'll find the officer will only care if any shotguns or rifles are loaded, since that's a Fish and Game violation. It makes the officer less nervous to hear it from you.

Some states require you to inform the officer if you are carrying.

And, reference searches, that's a big can of worms. General rule is, the LEO has the right to search to ensure his own safety. That would include the area accessable to you while you're stting in the car.

That includes the interior of your vehicle, to include the console and glove box, even if they're locked. It does NOT include the trunk, OR a LOCKED container (like a gun case) in the vehicles interior. It varies from state to state, and some don't allow it.

Some LEO's have abused the situation by trying to get you to "consent" to a search. I'll always ask them to tell me their "Propable Cause" for the search. IF they have true PC, then your consent is not required.
 
Nickle said:
And, reference searches, that's a big can of worms. General rule is, the LEO has the right to search to ensure his own safety. That would include the area accessable to you while you're stting in the car.
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No, an officer cannot search just to ensure his/her own safety, they still have to have probable cause. They cannot just say that they want to search your passenger compartment to feel safe.

In order for there to be a search, passenger compartment or not, they must either see something illegal, or have another legal reason, such as the vehicle description reported being used in a crime. Or, there is an "inventory search" in Massachusetts, which is required for liability reasonsons after a driver has been arrested, before the vehicle is towed. A list of contents is made so the driver cannot say that something was stolen out of the vehicle after it left his possession.

But, these rules do not apply to anything in plain view. It is legal, and totally expected, for an officer to look at the complete area, from the outside of the vehicle, to ensure there are no weapons or anything illegal sitting there in plain sight. It's unconstitutional for an officer to simply search a glove compartment, center counsel, or anything else, without probable cause, consent, or a warrant.

This even goes for searching a person. It's completely legal for an officer to do a "stop and frisk", also called a Torrey Search (named so from the Supreme Court case which decided it). This means that an officer can, for his/her own safety, "pat down" someone they come in contact with, for safety reasons only. They cannot go through someone's wallet, or even their pockets, unless they feel something from the outside which could possibly be a weapon.
 
Hawgleg, most northern states don't allow the search of the interior. Some or most southern states do, as I understand it. I'm not talking complete search, either, just a simple search similar to the Terry Search.

When the LEO "asks" to search the vehicle (even a little), I tend to say no. If he pushes the issue, I'll ask him what his propable cause is. That's a good start.
 
The training that I received at LFI was that in a state that does not require you to notify the officer (and MA is one of those states), that you should not notify the officer unless asked. If the officer tells you to exit the vehicle, then Ayoob suggests that you say something along the lines of "Certainly, officer. However, I have a license to carry and I am carrying now. How would you like to proceed?"

Using that language, you have told the officer what he needs to know -- 1) you are licensed and carrying, and 2) you will cooperate. And you have not said "I'VE GOT A GUN!"

The last thing you want to do is add to the officer's stress.

It's been so many years since I've been stopped (knock on wood), that I've never had to test this.
 
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