How much wood do you need?

Daniel Boone said:
...Especially if the temperature dips down around zero.

If I had to spend a night outdoors -... near a stream - since having water is more important then having wood.
I would cut pine bough's and I would build a lean to shelter and stack the pine tree branches over the top.
If there was no snow - all the better.
If there was snow - then I would stack pine tree branches on the bottom of the lean to - so I would not have to lay on the ground.

I would stack - ...
...
If you got enough pine tree branches together and enough fire wood together - then you could focus your attention on finding something to eat.
...
Even finding rabbits is a hit or miss ...
That would leave squirrels, deer, turkeys and what else wanders into your camp site.
I would also search the water source for fish.
If you are hungry enough - you will eat almost anything.

For desert - I would cut off some small birch branches and suck on them.
Click to expand...


Sounds like a whole lot of work for getting stuck outdoors one night. I'd just find some shelter and most likely make a fire. I'd just skip the stream and water entirely. I'd be fine for an overnight without a lot of water, or I'd just eat some snow. If I were in some back country, and chances are greater of being stuck overnight for up to a week, I'd do things differently and some of your ideas might have more meaning, but that is not what you said. Eating rabbits is not on my list for overnight activities unless I was planning that before I even set foot in the woods. Again, most places in Massachusetts, just hunker down with some shelter and figure it all out in the morning.
 
I'd just like to point out that eating snow is not a good idea in any survival situation. You waste almost as much water internally as you gain by eating snow as your body fights to melt and warm the snow. The trade of is core temp, which is not worth it IMHO. If I couldn't melt it somehow I would go completely without before eating snow.
 
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That's great info - thanks for sharing!

noddaduma said:
On taking temp readings off the reflector: the reflector acts as a mirror for the infrared radiation that your temperature gun picks up. You were basically metering off whatever was reflected in the Mylar "mirror": fire, snow, yourself, etc. Hence the inconsistent readings.

If you want to measure temp at the reflector, attach a sticky note or tape similar piece of paper to the center of the Mylar once it's set up. Then meter off that paper surface. It won't significantly affect the amount of heat being reflected, but will give consistent readings.
Click to expand...
 
Great post. A trick to keep the corners of the space blanket from slipping is you can use a small pebble in each corner, cover it then tie it with the 550. I would be interested to see what a wool blanket would do as a back stop with Pine tree branches along the back of it. Also, Coyote33 it is generally a bad idea to eat snow. It cools your core down way to fast. I would recommend melting it. If anyone had their interest sparked by the OP I would suggest reading the "SAS Survival Handbook by John "Lofty" Wiseman.
 
Bravo Zulu Andy. I need to check this forum more often. I've done the buring heated rocks thing in Boy Scouts back before Jeramiah Johnson came out on film. But never on frozen ground. It would be iteresting to see how laying on the area were the fire "was" would work out. I've seen another way to secure the corners of the mylar blankets are those thingmes that hold up stockings on garter belts also used to secure the corners of bed sheets. I think the Air Force use them to hold the shit tails in they hook em to their socks. They do take up a bit of space in a kit. I think it was a Brit kit I saw them in.
Understand you had available but did not use your hatchet and saw for the evolution. I am guessing if you used your hatchet and saw you would be able to put up a bit more wood during the same time?
Were you carring all this(Causulty blanket,mylar bkt,hatchet,saw) in your Koala or did I see your "day " pack hanging in one of the pics?
Again nice work. Robbie
 
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Robbie said:
I've seen another way to secure the corners of the mylar blankets are those thingmes that hold up stockings on garter belts also used to secure the corners of bed sheets. I think the Air Force use them to hold the shit tails in they hook em to their socks. They do take up a bit of space in a kit. I think it was a Brit kit I saw them in. Robbie
Click to expand...

The only problem I see with using these is that a good gust of wind stands a good chance of ripping the blanket right down. The same basic idea, but with stronger clips, might actually work, though.
 
Excellent post and a reasoanble scenario. "Survivorman" makes a good show, but it's not "realistic" for most occasions.

One of the better (safer) ways to break a long piece, rather than stomping on it, is to put it between two close together trees, and bend it - no risk of turning an ankle, or getting a flying piece of wood in the face.

Reps inbound
 
Beat me to it!

MisterHappy said:
Excellent post and a reasoanble scenario. "Survivorman" makes a good show, but it's not "realistic" for most occasions.

One of the better (safer) ways to break a long piece, rather than stomping on it, is to put it between two close together trees, and bend it - no risk of turning an ankle, or getting a flying piece of wood in the face.

Reps inbound
Click to expand...

Also, for wood too large to break by any means, couldn't you just drag it over the fire, and burn it piece by piece? Get a big bon fire going with big wood and you'd be able to sleep for a bit.

All in All EXCELLENT post! Thank you very much!
 
I'm thinking on this now ( I realize I'm being an arm chair survivalist here): How about dragging as many tops to your location during light as possible, then starting the fire at dusk and processing the wood by fire light, and drag burning anything too big to break?

Once again, You've provided us with excellent information here! Thanks!
 
careful34 said:
I'm thinking on this now ( I realize I'm being an arm chair survivalist here): How about dragging as many tops to your location during light as possible, then starting the fire at dusk and processing the wood by fire light, and drag burning anything too big to break?

Once again, You've provided us with excellent information here! Thanks!
Click to expand...

Too large a fire might actually cause you to not be as warm. The OP had trouble with the fire putting holes in his reflectors.

With a larger fire and no reflectors, you will have to stay further away from the fire, and one half will be uncomfortably hot while the other half will be freezing. I slept by the large bonfire at the last NES shoot at Monadnock, and experienced that very phenomenon. My front half (toward the fire) was burning, while my back half (away from the fire) was freezing.
 
Right. I wasn't thinking reflectors. Maybe just a lean to of hemlock branches or something.

With a larger fire and no reflectors, you will have to stay further away from the fire, and one half will be uncomfortably hot while the other half will be freezing. I slept by the large bonfire at the last NES shoot at Monadnock, and experienced that very phenomenon. My front half (toward the fire) was burning, while my back half (away from the fire) was freezing.
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That's also excellent information to know that you can't stay comfortable with just a huge fire either. Thank you to you also!
 
careful34 said:
Right. I wasn't thinking reflectors. Maybe just a lean to of hemlock branches or something.


That's also excellent information to know that you can't stay comfortable with just a huge fire either. Thank you to you also!
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Space blankets and tarps aren't the only things that can act as reflectors...if you find a rock wall, or built a wall out of natural materials, those will work, as will a lean-to with a fire just outside. Rock isn't much of an issue, but a log wall or lean-to DOES stand a chance of lighting up if you have too large a fire.


Also, it wouldn't have been bad if I wasn't attempting to sleep (had to be nice and fresh to shoot all day the next day, after all!). It wasn't bad at all while we were just hanging out, since I could just move a little this way or that, and keep it comfortable. As soon as I stopped moving, though.....
 
xtry51 said:
I'd just like to point out that eating snow is not a good idea in any survival situation. You waste almost as much water internally as you gain by eating snow as your body fights to melt and warm the snow. The trade of is core temp, which is not worth it IMHO. If I couldn't melt it somehow I would go completely without before eating snow.
Click to expand...

Especially true of yellow snow... my Dad taught me that one early!
 
Is there a reason why this forum is so retarded that some peoples posts are only one or two letters wide?
Is there something in my settings that is causing this?

Here is my opinion - anyone foolish enough to get stuck out back in the woods someplace and depending on nothing but a cheap space blanket to save their lives is probably not the kind of person that I would want to go hunting or camping with.

I have wrote several articles about survival in the wild and my opinion stands that you need about 1 to 2 cords of wood per a week when you do not have any shelter and do not have a stove to hold the heat in and regulate the amount of wood that is burned.

I would predict that with the pile of wood that he accumulated that it wasn't going to last very long when he burned it all at once in the beginning and thought that small sticks would hold him out for any period of time.

I would love to be on one of those survival programs on the television - because these punk kids now a days would hate the heck out of me because they do not understand the skills necessary for survival in the wild.
It's easy to put on a show for television when there is cameramen / women standing right there beside you - with full bellies and a helicopter ride out of there is only a phone call away.
But in the real world - being stranded is nothing like being on a reality television show.

In the real world, you have to work from before light in the morning until well past dark - just to accumulate the necessary things to keep yourself alive. A real idiot would go in the wild with a single shot rifle or over / under .410 /.22 rifle.

A smart person wouldn't take 5 people with them to go hunt birds of small mammals and wouldn't even waste their time trying to do so - because you burn more energy doing it then what you replace in protein.

You hunt for the largest animals you can find and you smoke or preserve the meat. You don't let somebody tell you that you can't shoot an animal - because in the wild - there is not anyone there to tell you that you can't.

If you are hungry enough - you will shoot a deer with a .22 or a bear or a elk.
All the WTSHTF stuff is just silliness.
If it really did happen - 99% of all the city slickers would already be dead!
The survivors could live for years by just raiding the local grocery stores for canned foods.
Jump start the fuel islands at gas stations for gasoline.
Raid fuel storage tanks for fuel.
Raid the Walmarts and parts stores for motor oil.
You would have your pick of anything that you would want.

Fresh foods - you would have to grow yourself.

Again - that would leave about 75% of the people to starve to death on top of the 99% of the city slickers because most people do not know how to hunt and gather and they do not know how to farm.

The most stupid part of reality television shows is that no one in their right mind would go to Alaska in the middle of the winter and decide to get stranded.

You would need at least a year to prepare a camp site and store away enough food, water, and fuel to burn to get you through one winter.
After two - three years - you would run out of firewood and would have to move and build a new cabin all over again.
And you wouldn't have men and women sleeping in separate sleeping bags.
That is the reason why all those experiments fails - because everyone is still out for themselves and they do not realize what it takes to survive on their own and they do not have someone who is smart enough to crack the whip and make those spoiled rotten brats get out of bed at 5AM and start hunting and gathering and they come running home after a couple of hours - if they don't get anything.
In my world - if you don't work - you don't eat!
Its as simple as that.
If you wanted to eat bad enough, you would shoot one of the cameramen and eat them before anyone else found out that they were missing.

In the real world - you do not become stranded in the most ideal situation - a place with lot's of firewood and a space blanket and some thermometers and all the gadgets that this guy has to prove how great of a woodsman he is.

In the real world - a person would probably just dig a hole, throw some branches on top, climb in the hole and go to sleep and not even worry about keeping a fire going all night.
 
Daniel Boone said:
I have wrote several articles
Click to expand...

Link for us to read?

Daniel Boone said:
In the real world - you do not become stranded in the most ideal situation - a place with lot's of firewood and a space blanket and some thermometers and all the gadgets that this guy has to prove how great of a woodsman he is.
Click to expand...

I know Andy personally, that is not what he is doing.

Daniel Boone said:
In the real world -
Click to expand...

Still lots of I woulds and you wouldn't's.

Andy in NH said:
I was curious as to how much wood a person would need in order to survive a cold night stuck out in the woods without a dedicated shelter, sleeping bag, or other equipment.
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Way to derail the thread by critiquing his post by stating you need to work harder to survive a winter. Ya' think? [thinking]
 
Daniel Boone said:
Here is my opinion...
Click to expand...

Dude, I'm all for flying off the handle, as most people here I'm sure will admit, but I usually try to keep my sights on the target. The title of this post was not "How to survive indefinitely above the arctic circle using nothing but a 10/22." This thread is about simple knowledge of gathering firewood and how much you need. It's a simple exercise carried out very well by the OP'er with some simple hard data for those who may never have actually spent a night in the woods. No one is reading this thread thinking when they're done they know everything they'll ever need to for wilderness or SHTF living.

Oh, and this may surprise you, but even starving city folk are smart enough to raid canned and other food from stores before actually starving to death. So if you're big plan for a SHTF scenario is to wait 3-4 weeks and then walk around like you're the only one who was smart enough to forage for canned food, I'm sorry to say you're in for a rude awakening.
 
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Robbie said:
I've seen another way to secure the corners of the mylar blankets are those thingmes that hold up stockings on garter belts.... They do take up a bit of space in a kit.
Click to expand...

That - and they are a single use item. I've been trying to streamline gear so that it is multi-functional - less space, less weight, more capability.

Robbie said:
I am guessing if you used your hatchet and saw you would be able to put up a bit more wood during the same time?
Click to expand...

Great question; I'm not really sure. The wood tools are for processing larger pieces and larger amounts of wood, but I'm not sure how that compares with snapping off branches by hand. Maybe I can test it out in a few weeks? [wink]

Robbie said:
Were you carring all this(Causulty blanket,mylar bkt,hatchet,saw) in your Koala or did I see your "day " pack hanging in one of the pics?
Click to expand...

In the Koala I had; a G21 w/ light, two spare mags, notebook / pencil, camera, mini-tripod, thermometer(s), GPS, fire kit, extra gloves, and a folding knife. In my day-pack I carried the test gear; casualty / space blankets, bungee cords, as well as a FAK, some water, hatchet, folding saw, fixed blade knife, 'Scoobie' snacks, an extra insulating layer, and a small square of closed cell foam insulating pad.

MisterHappy said:
One of the better (safer) ways to break a long piece, rather than stomping on it, is to put it between two close together trees, and bend it - no risk of turning an ankle, or getting a flying piece of wood in the face.
Click to expand...

Good point. No excuse on my part other than "old habits die hard". [thinking]

careful34 said:
Also, for wood too large to break by any means, couldn't you just drag it over the fire, and burn it piece by piece?
Click to expand...

careful34 said:
How about dragging as many tops to your location during light as possible, then starting the fire at dusk and processing the wood by fire light, and drag burning anything too big to break?
Click to expand...

All great ideas, but somewhat beyond the scope of what I was trying to accomplish. There were many things I could have done (or should have done) differently, but as with Space blanket Experiment, this is not what I normally go to the field with.
 
Andy please keep doing these experiments, what you do and add here is very appreciated. As far as the critics go, talk is cheap. To Daniel Boone, Is Daniel Boone your pen name as I am unable to find any articles you have written.
 
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Andy thanks for the anserwers. Come to find out those "thingmes" are are actually called suspender clips. This is the kit I saw them in http://www.bestglide.com/sf_survival_kit_info.html . I did a search or two and looked in some books I have but I could find nothing further. I am guessing most people have come to the conclusion, like you due to their limited use they are not included. Robbie
 
This is all good info. The narrow forum is because of the ad in the last post. I think your pile there is good for maybe 8 PM to 1 AM based on fires I've had. You could milk it out to last the night, but as said in here, it would be best to have a wall behind the fire, and one behind you to even out the temps.
 

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