Help which Progressive reloading press

[Andrew92fs]

I agree Dillon dies are not a necessity at all..I am a tad OCD..I have a large variety of dies, but I tend to buy Dillon stuff because I know that (from my experience) will be there should something fail.

For me rather than buying a single stage press I would outlay my initial cash into a class....I think EddieCoyle runs classes and if he doesn't he should as he is a great resource.

Dillon 550 is great beginner press. Progressive, but if you are smart, you will back it off to single stage until you get the hang of things. Slow is smooth, smooth is fast.

I banged around with a Lee Loadmaster I snagged for cheap (no resale value) on Craigs list when I started out. I felt like the dad on "A Christmas Story" doing battle in the basement cursing and clanging around to get the dagnammit thing to run right. Spent more time fiddling and fooling with the press than I did making ammo. Almost killed the hobby for me. Then I went up to The Trading Post, where they have several presses set up to look at and feel. The quality and smoothness of the 550 compared to anything Lee was noticeably better. I'm sure the simple Lee stuff is pretty good and easy to handle but anything other than that and I would look at other presses. On that note, I have EXCLUSIVELY Lee Dies in my dillon stuff. Nothing has shown me the need to justify the expense of Dillon dies yet. Although since it seems I'm Blue for good I'll probably go for Blue dies when I'm big and rich...

Gatling Guns Rule

 

[Andrew92fs]

9mm now is .36 per round...I make it for .12 so the math looks more like savings of .24 per round.......So for BE for 9mm 4,166 @ $1,000 cost (cost is on the high end)............I typically shoot 200 rounds per trip of 9mm so that is 22-22 trips......You wouldn't shoot 21-22 times in the next 2 years?

Just knowing the sheer volume that you produce is definitely a testament to Dillon! I doubt that anyone on here even comes close to producing the amount of ammo you do. I'm kind of in the same boat as the OP with regard to the calibers that I would be likely to be reloading at this point, and while that 650 sounds like a fantastic setup, I have to look closely at the break even point (as the OP should also). For this reason, I believe the 550b might be more in line price-wise for doing mainly 9mm and .223 wouldn't you agree? Going by Andrew's post above, having to load almost 6k rounds to reach the break even point with the 650 makes it hard to justify for average shooter who is not on a competitive league or something. I would definitely appreciate your input though if my thought process is flawed though.

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Also if you plan to get the 550B, you may want to not use someone's 650 as you will want one.....I have refrained from touching a 1050 for this exact reason.

Just knowing the sheer volume that you produce is definitely a testament to Dillon! I doubt that anyone on here even comes close to producing the amount of ammo you do. I'm kind of in the same boat as the OP with regard to the calibers that I would be likely to be reloading at this point, and while that 650 sounds like a fantastic setup, I have to look closely at the break even point (as the OP should also). For this reason, I believe the 550b might be more in line price-wise for doing mainly 9mm and .223 wouldn't you agree? Going by Andrew's post above, having to load almost 6k rounds to reach the break even point with the 650 makes it hard to justify for average shooter who is not on a competitive league or something. I would definitely appreciate your input though if my thought process is flawed though.

 

[JimB]

550 is a glorified single stage. Get a 650 if you go blue and like lots of little moving parts and speed dial customer service.

-Proud to be dad every day, a licensed plumber most days, and wish I was a shoemaker on others.

I own a 650, the last sentence here is not even close to being true.

 

[Andrew92fs]

I agree I have only emailed Dillon for worn out parts......There is something so elegant about the way these presses operate....I love messing with it....I was nervous at first and then I dove right in with the manual and it has been a fantastic learning experience....I am not mechanically inclined compared to my family that has restored multiple foreign cars, but I was able to very quickly overcome the learning curve, but am always learning.

I own a 650, the last sentence here is not even close to being true.

 

[Terminator03]

9mm now is .36 per round...I make it for .12 so the math looks more like savings of .24 per round.......So for BE for 9mm 4,166 @ $1,000 cost (cost is on the high end)............I typically shoot 200 rounds per trip of 9mm so that is 22-22 trips......You wouldn't shoot 21-22 times in the next 2 years?




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Also if you plan to get the 550B, you may want to not use someone's 650 as you will want one.....I have refrained from touching a 1050 for this exact reason.

Thanks for chiming back in with further cost analysis. This is exactly the kind of info that I need when discussing larger purchases like this with my wife. It needs to make sense financially for her to even consider since she is not at all into the shooting sports, yet is the primary breadwinner for our family. She is always supportive of my endeavors if I can articulate "why" it makes sense over just buying a few boxes of ammo for range trips. One thing is for sure though, I would make way more of those "range trips" than I currently do now do to the cost of replacing the ammo that I shoot.

 

[Andrew92fs]

I agree...I am a very analytical person and the way I looked at it was financially and then when I got into it, it was more about quality and fun. In the past I have bought things and regretted the purchase because for a little bit extra I could have gotten something of more quality (snowblower). I don't drink, I don't smoke, I don't have season tickets, I drive a modest car, I went to school more than half my life on scholarships,...My indulgences are my house, my travel, movies, my food and my reloading hobby....oh and my lovely gf.

Thanks for chiming back in with further cost analysis. This is exactly the kind of info that I need when discussing larger purchases like this with my wife. It needs to make sense financially for her to even consider since she is not at all into the shooting sports, yet is the primary breadwinner for our family. She is always supportive of my endeavors if I can articulate "why" it makes sense over just buying a few boxes of ammo for range trips. One thing is for sure though, I would make way more of those "range trips" than I currently do now do to the cost of replacing the ammo that I shoot.

 

[Cmaro21]

Lee presses suck. Dillion or hornady. I shouldnt have to replace plastic parts almost every time i use my press. My lee lasted till i could not stand it any more.

To be fair, Lee stands by their product. That being said, I wouldn't get one (another one). Thank God for Midway's return policy, I sent my Lee progressive back in under a year to them after Lee replaced several of the dies and other parts on a few occasions. I know that I could have been part to blame but it did not seem to be built 1/2 as well or run 1/4 as well as some dillion's I've seen.

 

[IPSC_DRL]

Get any press you want.







As long as it is BLUE!

I have two on my bench. One is always setup for 45ACP and the other gets switched around between any of 9 different calibers.

 

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

I wouldn't worry about not touching someone's 650 or 1050 as Andrew suggested, I think it would actually be helpful if you tried all 3 and then made up your mind.

The suggestion on Brian Enos' site is a good one, he has a good breakdown of what he feels you should have as a press. As I remember if you shoot less than 2,000 rounds of a single caliber a month then the 550 is it, above that the 650 and even above that the 1050.
I have a friend who has the 650 and a 1050 and I have used both. I still prefer the 550

One thing about the 550, if you should a variety of calibers it is much quicker to change over than the 650 from caliber to caliber. The 1050 takes even longer to change over.
I also like the control of the 550 over the other two.

But it is Coke Pepsi between the 550 and the 650 some like one some like the other and we will defend our choices to the death

 

[Andrew92fs]

Yea not touching a 650 was def. a joke..I agree the more knowledge the better....They all have their fact based pros and cons and def. all have their subjective based pros and cons. What I do encourage is learning, learning and learning some more....Hit a reloading class as I have mentioned...I learned through mistakes, forums, and manuals. A reloading class would have been a great help.

I wouldn't worry about not touching someone's 650 or 1050 as Andrew suggested, I think it would actually be helpful if you tried all 3 and then made up your mind.

The suggestion on Brian Enos' site is a good one, he has a good breakdown of what he feels you should have as a press. As I remember if you shoot less than 2,000 rounds of a single caliber a month then the 550 is it, above that the 650 and even above that the 1050.
I have a friend who has the 650 and a 1050 and I have used both. I still prefer the 550

One thing about the 550, if you should a variety of calibers it is much quicker to change over than the 650 from caliber to caliber. The 1050 takes even longer to change over.
I also like the control of the 550 over the other two.

But it is Coke Pepsi between the 550 and the 650 some like one some like the other and we will defend our choices to the death

 

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

I think they run a reloading class up at GOAL

 

[EddieCoyle]

I think EddieCoyle runs classes and if he doesn't he should as he is a great resource.

I do.

I have two classes coming up - one at GOAL in Northboro and one at Blue Northern Trading in Ayer:

http://www.massreloading.com/schedule.html

 

[Massman]

Go blue and don't look back. Top notch customer service should you ever have a problem. My 650's were the best investment I made when I got into reloading. I load pistol and rifle calibers on them. Takes me about 10 minutes to do a caliber change.(with the quick change kits). One is set up for small primers, one for large primers so I don't have to mess with changing the primer station.
Good Luck!

 

[Andrew92fs]

I am currently looking for a gently used 650, but more because I want to do more at once when friends are over.....I did however buy the entire priming unit so I could just swap that out instead of all the little parts when going from small to large primers....

Go blue and don't look back. Top notch customer service should you ever have a problem. My 650's were the best investment I made when I got into reloading. I load pistol and rifle calibers on them. Takes me about 10 minutes to do a caliber change.(with the quick change kits). One is set up for small primers, one for large primers so I don't have to mess with changing the primer station.
Good Luck!

 

[jar]

Looking at payback time oversimplifies things imo. You really need to include your time in the payback calculation. Upgrading from the LnL to the 1050 had no effect on my per round costs, but it was totally worth the money. Being able to load up 200 rounds the night before a match in about 15 minutes is great. Not having to stop and fiddle with things all the time is huge. I love adjusting the primer seating depth by turning a screw and having every primer seated exactly the same. I haven't dialed in the primer pocket swager, but once I do, I can use a bunch of crimped primer brass that I've been sorting out over the years.

Yes, the 1050 is expensive. However, if you look at it like a gun purchase, it starts to make sense. How many guns do you own that you don't particularly need, but bought because you enjoy shooting them? The 1050 makes loading a joy instead of a chore. Of course, I'm a special case in that when I'm not in the middle of selling and buying houses, I shoot 10k 9mm a year and probably a total of 1k of all other centerfire pistol/rifle ammo combined. If you load a few hundred of dozens of different calibers, the cost of the 1050 gets ridiculous.

 

[Andrew92fs]

I agree, but financials and or ammo supply are the 2 main reasons why people get into reloading (then customized loads)..On what press people buy: Some people endure the evolution and expense when starting due to saving fixed costs and then end up spending more in the long run by upgrading presses...Quality time is what matters to me...I love reloading not fixing presses or being bored.....If I purchased a 1050 I would likely only use it for one or 2 calibers because as you said it does get cost prohibitive. They are truly the ultimate machine in my eyes...Whatever the OP chooses he should know that while we may all have differing opinions, most here at NES and in the shooting sports world in general are always eager to give pointers or buy your stuff.

Looking at payback time oversimplifies things imo. You really need to include your time in the payback calculation. Upgrading from the LnL to the 1050 had no effect on my per round costs, but it was totally worth the money. Being able to load up 200 rounds the night before a match in about 15 minutes is great. Not having to stop and fiddle with things all the time is huge. I love adjusting the primer seating depth by turning a screw and having every primer seated exactly the same. I haven't dialed in the primer pocket swager, but once I do, I can use a bunch of crimped primer brass that I've been sorting out over the years.

Yes, the 1050 is expensive. However, if you look at it like a gun purchase, it starts to make sense. How many guns do you own that you don't particularly need, but bought because you enjoy shooting them? The 1050 makes loading a joy instead of a chore. Of course, I'm a special case in that when I'm not in the middle of selling and buying houses, I shoot 10k 9mm a year and probably a total of 1k of all other centerfire pistol/rifle ammo combined. If you load a few hundred of dozens of different calibers, the cost of the 1050 gets ridiculous.

 

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

Get either a 550b or a 650 and you will never have to upgrade. Personally I like the 550 I also like to make sure the powder dropped by having a simple mirror setup on the press to look in each case as I seat the bullet. But then again running up 400 .38's sets me up for a while.

 

[KTech2316]

I tried the Lee progressive machine. What a turd! Ran the LNL quite a bit. Wasn't bad but did require a lot of "attention" to go on long runs of ammo. Went with the Dillon 650. By far and away the best press I've used! Thousands of rounds made and no issues. Zero primer feed issues,Zero indexing issues...This thing is as solid as it gets! I have a 1050 coming soon!

(I use RCBS for all my single stage stuff.Went thru 2 Lee single stage presses in 2 years)

 

[*chris*]

Ran the LNL quite a bit. Wasn't bad but did require a lot of "attention" to go on long runs of ammo. Went with the Dillon 650. By far and away the best press I've used! Thousands of rounds made and no issues. Zero primer feed issues,Zero indexing issues...This thing is as solid as it gets!

Someone else pointed to the bakeoff I did between my LNL AP and my 650 XL. Hands down the 650 is the winner although I think the LNL powder drop maybe a tad more consistent.

As others said, you can't go wrong with either. Others have different opinions, but I think auto indexing, like the LNL AP and 650XL, really speeds up the reloading process making it a necessity.

I do have a LNL single stage to reload smaller run calibers like 44mag and 308.

Chris

 

[Metalriot]

+1 on the lee stuff. simple yet effective equipment. and very affordable as well. i just broke a lee hand press called lee and they just said email us a few pics of the broken part and we will send you a new one.they didnt even ask how old it was. i received a replacement piece in a week and was back in business. great warranty!

 

[TonyDedo]

Another +1 for the XL650 - it was my first press, I went blue and never looked back.

I am currently looking for a gently used 650, but more because I want to do more at once when friends are over.....I did however buy the entire priming unit so I could just swap that out instead of all the little parts when going from small to large primers....

Good luck, few people sell their 650s, and when they do, they don't depreciate much. Don't expect to find one at much of a discount below retail.

 

[Mark from MA]

New LNL owner here. Just started cleaning it up and putting it together tonight. I'm very moderate volume reloader, but wanted to speed things up for pistol mainly and maybe 223. I'll still reload most rifle on my cheap Lee Breech Lok, which works like a charm for hunting loads that I maybe load 100 a year on.

Price was the main point in my decision, and not being high volume. I had cabela's points and gift cards that brought the purchase price down quite a bit.

The Lee progressives may work for some, but the quality is just not there, too much plastic and lots of tinkering. I almost bought one just to try it and if it sucked I was going to return it, but that's a waste of time and money.

It was a tough choice between LNL and a 550B for me......hopefully I won't regret the LNL.

 

[Fixxah]

I think you'll like the LnL. All machines need tweaking occasionally. The choice for me would have been between the LnL and a 650. I don't consider the 550 to be progressive.

-Proud to be dad every day, a licensed plumber most days, and wish I was a shoemaker on others.

 

[jibbr71]

Having run about 3000 rounds of pistol calibers through my Lee Loadmaster, I can attest to the level of tinkering and futzing it takes to get a run of ammo going. That being said, I went back to 9mm last night for the first time since the initial run, and found that all the tinkering paid off in decreased set up time for a run. I walked into the reloading room about 6:30, switched the press over from .45 acp to 9mm, ran off 100 rounds to try a little lighter load, and walked out at about 8:00. This time included stopping to shoot the bull with my father. I will probably upgrade this press in a couple of years, and probably with a dillon, but for now, it works pretty good for me.

 

[*chris*]

I run Dillons. An XL-650 and a Super 1050. The 650 is the work horse, I use the 1050 exclusively for 223 (my top seller). Between the 2 presses I've loaded around 1 million rounds over 19 different calibers this century. Dillon was always really good about replacing worn parts under the lifetime warranty but the last couple of years, not so much. For your application I'd go with a 650 and separate tool heads - one for each caliber.

How is the wear on the Dillon 650 after hundreds of thousands of rounds? One area that I am disappointed in versus the Lock N Load AP is the amount of metal to plastic wear surfaces on the Dillon 650. I have only loaded a few thousand rounds on my 650, but there certainly are grooves developing in the plastic wear surfaces. The Dillon 650 is a much smoother machine than the LNL AP, but may not be as durable which is a fair tradeoff.

Does the 1050, which is really a production machine, have the same plastic to metal wear surfaces as the 650?

Chris

 

[Mark from MA]

I think you'll like the LnL. All machines need tweaking occasionally. The choice for me would have been between the LnL and a 650. I don't consider the 550 to be progressive.

-Proud to be dad every day, a licensed plumber most days, and wish I was a shoemaker on others.

I agree it was more a comparison on cost not exact equipment. The 550 for me would suffice for the volume i reload. But i did want a self indexer

Lnl is almost setup to run some 45 acp Some WTF moments but all in all bolt on to taking apart the powder loader to degrease get everything setup. Wasnt to bad, few hours which included some bench modification. If i was totally new to reloading i might have been scratching my head a bit more. The written directions certainly suck but a few quick looks at the video and gtg.

I was also a little surprised how far i had to bury my lee dies in the thing but at least they work. I did not want to buy new dies

See how smooth and accurate i can get it going tonight.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[earthshine402]

Having run about 3000 rounds of pistol calibers through my Lee Loadmaster, I can attest to the level of tinkering and futzing it takes to get a run of ammo going. That being said, I went back to 9mm last night for the first time since the initial run, and found that all the tinkering paid off in decreased set up time for a run. I walked into the reloading room about 6:30, switched the press over from .45 acp to 9mm, ran off 100 rounds to try a little lighter load, and walked out at about 8:00. This time included stopping to shoot the bull with my father. I will probably upgrade this press in a couple of years, and probably with a dillon, but for now, it works pretty good for me.

No offense, but that is pretty freakin' terrible. I can switch over my 650 from 9mm to .40 in 10 minutes and load about 100 every 8-10 minutes at a relaxed pace.

How is the wear on the Dillon 650 after hundreds of thousands of rounds? One area that I am disappointed in versus the Lock N Load AP is the amount of metal to plastic wear surfaces on the Dillon 650. I have only loaded a few thousand rounds on my 650, but there certainly are grooves developing in the plastic wear surfaces. The Dillon 650 is a much smoother machine than the LNL AP, but may not be as durable which is a fair tradeoff.

Does the 1050, which is really a production machine, have the same plastic to metal wear surfaces as the 650?

Chris

You should be greasing these plastic surfaces..

 

[houdini]

once you go blue you would never go back.

 

[jibbr71]

No offense, but that is pretty freakin' terrible. I can switch over my 650 from 9mm to .40 in 10 minutes and load about 100 every 8-10 minutes at a relaxed..

I would ask these questions: How many times have you done this, and how long have you be reloading? Being a new reloader, I was double checking as I go, and that time included setting a new powder charge. I am not as practiced in the switch over, and with a known set up to switch over to, I would think that I could make the change and load 100 rounds in about 30 minutes.


Sent from my phone....which isn't really a phone anymore, it's a computer on my pocket

 

[cutlass442]

Lee pro 1000 cheapest per caliber and does tale some tinkering at first but with case feeder now does 400 per hour and smooth once broken in !!!!