Help Needed. Small rifle primers in lieu of small PP

pentium

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Small rifle primers in lieu of small PP.
With no supply of components out there. I have been led to believe that small rifle primers can be used but, gains 25fps or so with no disadvantage. A person mentioned to me that I should research breach erosion issues.

I researched the breach erosion issues. My take on it is that there was a batch of Winchester primers on the market that were inducing the issue of erosion.

I would love to hear your thoughts on the this.

im using a cz 9mm with 125g bullet, and 3.7g vihtavouri
 

gerrycaruso

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As far as I know, small rifle and small pistol primers are the same size. This doesn't seem to be the case with large. I have heard of people using rifle primers in their 9mm ammunition. I'd load a few to make sure the firearm you intend to use will reliably set them off.
 
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As far as I know, small rifle and small pistol primers are the same size. This doesn't seem to be the case with large. I have heard of people using rifle primers in their 9mm ammunition. I'd load a few to make sure the firearm you intend to use will reliably set them off.
Google quickly yields CCI small pistol magnums #550 are the same except for labeling as CCI small rifle #400.

 

jpm

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There was a BOLT erosion issue with some batch of Winchester large rifle primers years ago but those are long gone I'm sure. There should be no breach erosion issue unless you're running some super hot powder near max like Lil' Gun or 2400. Even then I'm thinking of flame cutting on a revolver which wouldn't really be breach erosion. I don't even know how you could have breach erosion TBH
 
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Large pistol and Rifle primers are different heights while Small Pistol/Rifle are the same.

I have only stocked small Rifle primers since the time of 180 Power Factor and .38 Super rounds back in the dark ages of IPSC.

Common practice was to buy 5-6 flats of them each time one of the group put in a powder/primer order so as to split HAZMAT. We used to do that 1-2 times a year. I don't shoot as much now but am very happy that I stocked up when I did. [thumbsup]
 

dhuze

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There was a BOLT erosion issue with some batch of Winchester large rifle primers years ago but those are long gone I'm sure. There should be no breach erosion issue unless you're running some super hot powder near max like Lil' Gun or 2400. Even then I'm thinking of flame cutting on a revolver which wouldn't really be breach erosion. I don't even know how you could have breach erosion TBH
I'm calling BS on that. There should be no bolt erosion since there should be no blowback through the primer.
 

jpm

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I'm calling BS on that. There should be no bolt erosion since there should be no blowback through the primer.
People posted pictures. I believe it was blowing back around the primer in the pocket as I recall. I remember the picture and there was a definite primer sized wear pattern around the firing pin hole on the bolt. I'm not sure what forum that was though, could have been CMP or gunboards.
 

TrashcanDan

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Small rifle primers in lieu of small PP.
With no supply of components out there. I have been led to believe that small rifle primers can be used but, gains 25fps or so with no disadvantage. A person mentioned to me that I should research breach erosion issues.

I researched the breach erosion issues. My take on it is that there was a batch of Winchester primers on the market that were inducing the issue of erosion.

I would love to hear your thoughts on the this.

im using a cz 9mm with 125g bullet, and 3.7g vihtavouri
It'll be fine. Thats not a super hot load by any means.
 

jhrosier

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I'm calling BS on that. There should be no bolt erosion since there should be no blowback through the primer.
That was, in fact, the problem. The primers were being pierced, causing erosion to the breech face around the firing pin hole..
I have pits on the bolt face of my 1903A3 (brand new bolt, BTW) caused by Winchester primers.

Magnum pistol or rifle primers require more force to ignite and might cause misfires. My Beretta 92fs has frequent misfires with magnum primers; none with standarrd primers.

Jack
 

xtry51

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I exclusively run CCI400s for all of my pistol reloads.

The only issue with using CCI400s is it requires a stock spring. If you run lighter springs in something like a G17, you might get light strikes and FTFire. I only run stock pistols and its never been an issue for me in M&P9, Gxx or XDm
 

Rob Boudrie

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I use Small Rifle exclusively for handgun loads that do not require large pistol, mainly for fotay loads for an SVI (moderately hot loads with longer than SAAMI overall length), and previously used them extensively for 38 super. If the breechface erodes, I'll just replace it - Infinity Firearms
 

andrew1220

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Small rifle primers in lieu of small PP.
With no supply of components out there. I have been led to believe that small rifle primers can be used but, gains 25fps or so with no disadvantage. A person mentioned to me that I should research breach erosion issues.

I researched the breach erosion issues. My take on it is that there was a batch of Winchester primers on the market that were inducing the issue of erosion.

I would love to hear your thoughts on the this.

im using a cz 9mm with 125g bullet, and 3.7g vihtavouri
I wouldn’t worry about breach erosion. However if you have a tuned CZ like many of us (ie lighter springs) you may run into light strikes with small rifle primers. That would be the only concern I’d have.
 
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A lot of people use SR in major PF loads (40, 38 super*, 9 major) without issues. Head of to Enos forum and search "breech face erosion". Some people seem to have issues with light loads and small rifle primers not sealing around primer pocket.
 

darrowj

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I use Small Rifle exclusively for handgun loads that do not require large pistol, mainly for fotay loads for an SVI (moderately hot loads with longer than SAAMI overall length), and previously used them extensively for 38 super. If the breechface erodes, I'll just replace it - Infinity Firearms
This subject overall is interesting. I was not aware of this being an option. Thanks for the information and I will give this a try once I run out of SPP.
 

Broccoli Iglesias

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go to any USPSA match. Out of 100 shooters, at least 10 will be using Small Rifle Primers.

I have 3K small rifle primers I will be using to reload plinking rounds. The only reason I won't use them for competition is because I don't feel like re-working a powder load for 3K rounds and then going back to a small pistol primer load.

Anyway, the SRP was a good strategy when the SPP drought started. Now both are almost impossible to find.
 
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Broccoli Iglesias

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I wonder if Shooters Outpost still has the cases of 12k Fiocchi SRP?? $300 if I recall? A friend told me they did a few weeks ago but maybe they've started limiting primer purchases?
In the past 2 months, I went to 3 USPSA events near the place. I told myself I would stop by every time, and I forgot. Lol.
 

DukeInFlorida

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One of my last posts before heading off to mayo Clinic for my high risk proceedure

PLEASE do NOT substitute pistol for rifle primer, large or small. The difference is NOT just the diameters, there are also height differences, and putting in a primer that is too high will cause slam fires as the slide comes forward, very dangerous!

Also, I know how most of you are. Power to the max. The chemicals and the amount of those chemicals for pistol vs rifle are different. And, swapping one for the other could likely cause you do go way over SAAMI pressure specs, causing damage to your firearm, fingers, etc...

It's just not worth the risk! Do not swap pistol for rifle or vice versa.

And, when you throw MAGNUM primers into the equation it even gets worse.

My advise to students on the subject of supply of components has always been to plan WAY ahead. I'm not currently able to do any reloading, but have massive case lot inventories of every primer size and type. And, have for years, including through the previous shortages (Obama years, etc).

Don't hoard. But also don't wait until the last minute to plan for your purchases. This also applies to bullets and powder. It's a great thing to be SUPPORTING your local reloading supply shop. Those are the folks that will try to really help you out. If you don't know the shop owners on a first name basis, and have a good relationship with them, shame on you. Over the years, even if it's a couple of bucks more to buy from the local shops, I always try my best to give them my business. And, that has always paid off in ACES for me.

Plan way ahead in purchases. But, DO NOT swap pistol for rifle or vice versa. Please spend some time researching the dimensions and chemical formulations for SP, LP, SR, and LR. You'll see that the differences are not diameter as much as height. And, most importantly, the chemicals and the amount of those chemicals are different. I don't want to be reading (here) about anyone blowing off fingers.

Peace to all
 

EddieCoyle

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Good luck with your prodedure OD. Keep fighting the good fight.

Just a clarification - all the "small" primers, rifle and pistol, magnum, standard, and match - are the same size in both diameter and height. Rifle primers have a thicker cup than pistol primers, and may or may not have the same brissance as small pistol magnum primers. There's a lot of variability from one manufacturer to another.
 
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BarnBuilder

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I wonder if Shooters Outpost still has the cases of 12k Fiocchi SRP?? $300 if I recall? A friend told me they did a few weeks ago but maybe they've started limiting primer purchases?
I was at SO last week and they had 6-8 cases of 12k Fiocchi Small Rifle Magnum primers.
 

Rob Boudrie

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PLEASE do NOT substitute pistol for rifle primer, large or small. The difference is NOT just the diameters, there are also height differences, and putting in a primer that is too high will cause slam fires as the slide comes forward, very dangerous!
First off, as the reloading guru has said, only large primers have an external difference.

Secondly, you advice is "textbook basic advice", up there with "Do not shoot reloads in this gun", "Do not exceed SAAMI pressures", etc. (the later being acceptable for certain calibers in certain guns designed for the high pressure). It fails to account for the well accepted practice of using small rifle primers for major power factor loads in 38 super (various variants) and 40 S&W in certain gun models, and the various degrees of reloading experience, knowledge and skill.

You probably one of those people who lathers and rinses a second time because the instructions on the bottle say so.
 

Smokewagon

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But, DO NOT swap pistol for rifle or vice versa.
This is not the case with small form factor primers. You can load small rifle primers in pistols with no safety issues at all really. The one minor exception might be with loading military rifle primers in handguns. They have thicker cups and some guns will not be able to trigger the primer.

Ever since the last primer shortage, I bought and loaded as much small primers for pistols as I could find. Did plenty of testing and taking notes so if things ever got scarce I could buy whatever and load it up. I'd have to dig through a crapton of records, but I don't think i saw more than a 20-25fps average increase between one brands small pistol and their small rifle magnums primers. A few of my guns had a hard time getting military primers to detonate(I think CCI 41 and Tula 223 were the worst for me). That was the only issue I found, but it was expected.
 

Smokewagon

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That was, in fact, the problem. The primers were being pierced, causing erosion to the breech face around the firing pin hole..
I have pits on the bolt face of my 1903A3 (brand new bolt, BTW) caused by Winchester primers.

Magnum pistol or rifle primers require more force to ignite and might cause misfires. My Beretta 92fs has frequent misfires with magnum primers; none with standarrd primers.

Jack

My Beretta had a similar issue with not being able to detonate military small rifle primers. never any issue with any magnum primers though.
 

kerryman71

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I've read multiple forums as well as lots of info here, and have seen where guys have been reloading pistol for 30 years, only using SRP. I bought a case of the Fiocchi SRP from Shooters Outpost that was mentioned to give them a try, and they worked fine with no adverse effects. I got about 10 - 15 fps more, a small reduction in powder. My loads are generally mid to high range.

The breach erosion that was mentioned seemed to happen with lower loads, and most likely not seating the primer fully. I found that with the SRPs, which are harder than the SPPs, you have to give it a little extra to make sure it's fully seated. This is all just from what I read on forums, so take it for what it's worth.

Personally, I reloaded a small amount of 9mm using the SRPs with no issues. I'm going back out Friday with a larger batch with a higher powder charge to see how they do.

Also, the Fiocchi SRP are labeled "Magnum", however, there are several retailers that sell them online that note in the description that they are only labeled "Magnum" but are not actually magnum primers. Probably why they were stacked to the ceiling at Shooters Outpost when I bought them.
 
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