Healy to lend voice.

[Agnotology]

There’s half your problem right there. Men don’t read manuals. We either learn how to use something or we break it and start over again.

So what about the elderly lady or the old veteran or even the young disabled veteran in a wheelchair who just can’t get out to go take safety courses? Are you going to deny them self protection simply because you don’t want to shoot with your idea of untrained people at the range, because that’s exactly what it sounds like.

Speaking of, who decides what is sufficient training? I’m fairly certain that I am better trained and have more real life experience to back it up than your do. What if others like me say f*** this agnotology guy his training doesn’t match ours, take his guns so we don’t get lazed at the range.

In this off the cuff hypothetical, I would figure a vet as a general rule would hit the minimum threshold for what any "training program" this would entail. Your 'elderly lady' example doesn't hold water either, I am unaware of any town in the state of MA that doesn't have a program that gives the elderly rides to appointments. They don't ask why, or for what, you just call and schedule a ride to a place you need to be, and a pick up time. Literally Uber for free.

As far as whom - ideally an organization based in firearms. I'd say the NRA, but they are about as reliable now as the politicians. Certainly wouldn't be the state. Definitely not in MA. We have enough gems here already that make policy while not knowing ass from elbow.

I'd be willing to bet you have infinitely more training, because apart from an educational video before stepping into the old S&W range in Springfield where I proceeded to chisel the pad of my thumb off with a slide 10 times in a row, and my original FID Hunter's Safety Course + refresher for LTC, I don't have any. I would be willing to bet in half an hour with you I'd be 10x the shooter I am right now. But in your description, while you don't have the ability to take my firearms, you certainly would have the clout to have my kicked off the range if I was being an idiot. As I should be. I certainly wish my pea-brain at the time had the sense to ask someone to show me a proper grip for the pistol I shot, so I wouldn't have had my thumb sticking up like I was giving a thumbs-up to the rear sight.

 

[Agnotology]

Well then you better learn the concept of slippery slope as well.

And you should familiarize with the 2A not being absolute and is not unlimited, unless you disagree with the Heller decision.

 

[Agnotology]

I want a constitutional amendment that prevents central planning marxists from proposing any infringement on RKBA

Then they wouldn't be marxist's. As stupid as those people are, Marx's writings spoke at length about how the people should be armed.

 

[HARRYM]

And you should familiarize with the 2A not being absolute and is not unlimited, unless you disagree with the Heller decision.

Amherst?

 

[Mark from MA]

What, because I don't want a moron who doesn't know the safety from the trigger in the next lane shooting me because he was too stupid to read the manual? Because they don't know how to clear their firearm without pulling the trigger? I don't care who wins a Darwin Award, I just don't want them to give me theirs. Here's a great quote from Carlin - "Imagine the intelligence of the average person. Now realize half of people are stupider than that."

Having an LTC and training for it does not make one safer.

There have been many ND all over the map in MA.....all of them have had safety training and LTC.......

If it makes you feel safer you probably also think the TSA works too.

 

[Agnotology]

Amherst?

I don't set foot in Amherst or NOHO unless I have to. Don't let the PFP fool you.

 

[cams]

 

[Agnotology]

Having an LTC and training for it does not make one safer.

There have been many ND all over the map in MA.....all of them have had safety training and LTC.......

If it makes you feel safer you probably also think the TSA works too.

You can't stop stupid from being stupid. a non-zero percentage of the population believe in flat earth. But you can limit it's influence with education and training. I would be willing to bet anything with zero training of firearms handling, it would be higher.

Well, not the one in Logan for sure. The guys at Bradley are pretty cool.

 

[HARRYM]

Then they wouldn't be marxist's. As stupid as those people are, Marx's writings spoke at length about how the people should be armed.

Your getting in over your head there. Marx supported gun rights because it suited his purpose at the time of revolution.

 

[Agnotology]

Your getting in over your head there. Marx supported gun rights because it suited his purpose at the time of revolution.

Marx wasn't alive to see a single revolution. He died in 1883. First one was in 1917.

 

[HARRYM]

No but the point being he knew when the time came it was the people who needed the arms. Had nothing to do with him believing that they had a RIGHT to own them.

 

[Agnotology]

All the demonstrated abuses by those governments that still think it's okay to defend their behavior with literal Jim Crow laws.

And since my hypothetical removes the government, it's a non-issue.

 

[HARRYM]

Don't really care what a Socialist German thought about gun rights in another country.

Am I feeding a Troll here?

 

[Agnotology]

No but the point being he knew when the time came it was the people who needed the arms. Had nothing to do with him believing that they had a RIGHT to own them.

Somehow this has gotten to the point where I am defending Marx. Even my MAGA hat is ashamed at this point. Do I need to explain the evolution of Marx > Marxism > Leninism > Communism > Socialism?

“Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered any attempts to disarm the people must be stopped, by force if necessary."

Direct quote.

 

[Agnotology]

Don't really care what a Socialist German thought about gun rights in another country.

Am I feeding a Troll here?

No, you are quoting things you don't know about, history you never paid attention to, referencing things you don't understand and then claiming to not care when you look foolish.

 

[HARRYM]

Somehow this has gotten to the point where I am defending Marx. Even my MAGA hat is ashamed at this point. Do I need to explain the evolution of Marx > Marxism > Leninism > Communism > Socialism?

“Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered any attempts to disarm the people must be stopped, by force if necessary."

Direct quote.

And again you ignore context and the meaning of why he felt that way at the time.

And who GAF?

Did Marx write our Constitution?

 

[Mesatchornug]

And since my hypothetical removes the government, it's a non-issue.

It doesn't, though.

Your hypothetical presumes there's a training cert that's acceptable. Definitionally, this means there are some that are not acceptable.

Which begs - acceptable, to whom? for what?

And you answered - there will be some background check, run by the government, who will also define the list of acceptable certificates. All of these can, and will, be abused by said same government.

 

[Agnotology]

And again you ignore context and the meaning of why he felt that way at the time.

And who GAF?

Did Marx write our Constitution?

Then why are you talking about it? I didn't bring it up.

 

[HARRYM]

Why Karl Marx Supported Gun Rights - Intellectual Takeout

Karl Marx didn’t support the right of workers to bear arms because he saw it as an inalienable right. He supported gun rights because they were a means to an end.

intellectualtakeout.org

 

[HARRYM]

Then why are you talking about it? I didn't bring it up.

Sorry, a Troll made me do it..........

 

[whatluck]

And you should familiarize with the 2A not being absolute and is not unlimited, unless you disagree with the Heller decision.

Your 1a rights aren't absolute. Take a sensitivity class and iq test and pay a $100 fee before you use a computer, or the fed govt will kick down your door and shoot your dog.

How about the 8 a? Let's make a fed bureau to decide who is free from cruel and unusual punishment. You take and pay for a class and carry a card around that says you get a lawyer and a phone call. but if that license lapses were gonna put you in Guantanamo bay indefinitely without a hearing.

Only leftists think they're so smart they have it all figured out. Your particular flavor of boot isn't that bad, let's force everyone else to take it.

I bet you also support red flag laws, you Karen.

 

[Agnotology]

It doesn't, though.

Your hypothetical presumes there's a training cert that's acceptable. Definitionally, this means there are some that are not acceptable.

Which begs - acceptable, to whom? for what?

And you answered - there will be some background check, run by the government, who will also define the list of acceptable certificates. All of these can, and will, be abused by said same government.

Pretty sure any of the major national gun rights orgs could work provide an outline to follow. The basis of the thought process is this - you don't leave training and education up to the people who think 9mm blows lungs out of the body, AR's have GAU-8 Avenger firing speeds, AR-15's weight as much a 10 boxes, shoulder thing that flips up, etc etc ad nauseum

Sorry, a Troll made me do it..........

Grats on learning to google and copy paste a link to your first search result. Either quote his work or give an original thought. The only troll here is you. If I wanted to waste time on listening to regurgitated talking points, I'd turn on MSM.

 

[HARRYM]

Pretty sure any of the major national gun rights orgs could work provide an outline to follow. The basis of the thought process is this - you don't leave training and education up to the people who think 9mm blows lungs out of the body, AR's have GAU-8 Avenger firing speeds, AR-15's weight as much a 10 boxes, shoulder thing that flips up, etc etc ad nauseum

Grats on learning to google and copy paste a link to your first search result. Either quote his work or give an original thought. The only troll here is you. If I wanted to waste time on listening to regurgitated talking points, I'd turn on MSM.

LOL

 

[HARRYM]

Supports restrictions and quotes Marx,,,,,,,

You can't make this shat up sometimes.

 

[HARRYM]

The link supports my points so that's why its there.

keep trolling though.

 

[Mesatchornug]

Pretty sure any of the major national gun rights orgs could work provide an outline to follow.

You're still missing the point. Who defines the "major" orgs?

Why is a certificate from @Agnotology's School for Kids that Want to Shoot Good not good enough? Why should you be required to get certified to teach the NRA's materials?

Further, how do they confirm the certificate an applicant is holding is real?

And after we've done that, who controls the background check?

The basis of the thought process is this - you don't leave training and education up to the people who think 9mm blows lungs out of the body, AR's have GAU-8 Avenger firing speeds, AR-15's weight as much a 10 boxes, shoulder thing that flips up, etc etc ad nauseum

It's a fine thought process. Unfortunately, it hasn't considered the actual process for implementation.

 

[Agnotology]

Your 1a rights aren't absolute. Take a sensitivity class and iq test and pay a $100 fee before you use a computer, or the fed govt will kick down your door and shoot your dog.

How about the 8 a? Let's make a fed bureau to decide who is free from cruel and unusual punishment. You take and pay for a class and carry a card around that says you get a lawyer and a phone call. but if that license lapses were gonna put you in Guantanamo bay indefinitely without a hearing.

Only leftists think they're so smart they have it all figured out. Your particular flavor of boot isn't that bad, let's force everyone else to take it.

I bet you also support red flag laws, you Karen.

So because I put a thought out there that you don't agree with, and am willing to talk it out with people who challenge my thought process, I lick boots? I've never claimed to have it all figured out. I never even said I was right. I still operate on the assumption I could be wrong. But I will defend my thought process until you show me a better one.

 

[Agnotology]

Supports restrictions and quotes Marx,,,,,,,

You can't make this shat up sometimes.

Never bothered to learn someone else's thought process or reasoning to out debate them? Or do you just sit inside an echo chamber listening to only that which you want to hear. God forbid you learn something. edit: even if it's from someone else's mistakes.

 

[whatluck]

So because I put a thought out there that you don't agree with, and am willing to talk it out with people who challenge my thought process, I lick boots? I've never claimed to have it all figured out. I never even said I was right. I still operate on the assumption I could be wrong. But I will defend my thought process until you show me a better one.

Yup. You made a comment about how the average person is too stupid to own a gun but you're smart enough to know what's good for everyone else right?

This has nothing to do with safety. You just want the state to have the power to decide who gets which rights. So you can feel safe. You would trade your countryman's liberty for your own false sense of safety. Makes you a bootlicker. And a tyrant. Hopefully you're not in any position of power like pta board member or crossing guard

You can't compromise on fundamentals, you just end up compromised. Anyone who advocates for expansion of federal govt in any way is

 

[Dadstoys]

And fighter jets! Our drooler in charge made it pretty clear that US citizens need fighter jets. I just have to figure out how to afford one. NES group buy?