Heads up - 2.5 years in prison for possession of 22LR shell casing in MA if unlicensed

AHM

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Massachusetts has tightened that up with case law. You better have articulated facts that lead you to believe they had a weapon
On the one hand,
everyone else on NES swears that SCMODS always beeps that a driver has an LTC.

Is that a sufficient fact?


On the other hand,
RAS of "armed" and "dangerous" is necessary and sufficient under Terry anyhow.

So what's the difference?


And if there is a difference,
what're the consequences of frisking someone under the Federal standard?
  • Civil rights suit?
  • Possession of contraband weapons not admissible in criminal weapons charges?
  • ???
Thanks in advance.
 

EddieA

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On the one hand,
everyone else on NES swears that SCMODS always beeps that a driver has an LTC.

Is that a sufficient fact?


On the other hand,
RAS of "armed" and "dangerous" is necessary and sufficient under Terry anyhow.

So what's the difference?


And if there is a difference,
what're the consequences of frisking someone under the Federal standard?
  • Civil rights suit?
  • Possession of contraband weapons not admissible in criminal weapons charges?
  • ???
Thanks in advance.
Cop in the family told me that it comes up on the screen, including known inventory.
He didn't say that there was a warning light/beep/red flare though.
I'll have to ask him at Thanksgiving dinner.
 

drgrant

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Why would you guys say, "Never happen"? How many things have happened in the last 50 years have that you thought would have?

Because theres a bunch of hyperbole often used when describing legal punishments for gun crimes which is not in alignment with real life results. Fake bullshit and hyperbole helps
no one. On a good day it results in people spreading misinformation. On a bad day it makes someone spread misinformation AND make a personal risk assessment based on erroneous
or fluffed up/exaggerated information. Either of these things often result in poor outcomes. Not to mention the atmosphere of fear it creates deters people from getting an LTC etc, if they believe that a minor transgression will get them thrown in the slammer.

For example if someone told me "you could go to jail for a few years for carrying a gun illegally in NJ" I would believe them, because.... that's actually happened. (see also, plaxico burress etc).

On the other hand, some histrionic boomer pant shitter will go around on some gun board and say "YEW GUIZE YEW COULD GO TO federal JAYLE for 10 YEARS or 250,000 FYNE FOR AN ILLEGUL MACHEEEN GUN!!!" but that never actually happens, the real deal is more like 1-3 years and some much smaller fine. (still heavy punishment, but also vastly reduced from the hyperbole).

In Mass the vast majority of dumb paper gun crimes end up in a CWOF, maybe (permanent or temporary) loss or suspension of LTC, some expensive legal fees and stolen shit by gov, but actually "going to jayle" you have to rack up a good score to actually have that happen.
 

teamRR

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Just as importantly, more importantly, a lot of NH folks don't understand the ramifications of MA laws with these things. Certain parking lots even where I live, you could accidentally drive into MA when the store was in NH. I had someone suggest we meet in such a place once for a private sale, I obviously suggested we pick anyplace just a touch north that would clearly be in NH and that's what we did.

I think a certain number of gun owners, especially a casual Fudd type who just has a few shotguns/rifles for hunting and such, isn't active with other owners, and doesn't go reading up about gun laws, tend to break these laws on a regular basis and just are oblivious - the sort of folks who wouldn't ever break a law to speak of and it just wouldn't occur to them there would be any issue going about their lives with a box of shells on the back seat.
 

Cuthbert Allgood

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On the one hand,
everyone else on NES swears that SCMODS always beeps that a driver has an LTC.

Is that a sufficient fact?


On the other hand,
RAS of "armed" and "dangerous" is necessary and sufficient under Terry anyhow.

So what's the difference?


And if there is a difference,
what're the consequences of frisking someone under the Federal standard?
  • Civil rights suit?
  • Possession of contraband weapons not admissible in criminal weapons charges?
  • ???
Thanks in advance.

That’s a lot of words bro. I’ll do my best. Not every cop is going to know that you have an LTC. It depends on their software, what they run you on, whether or not you live in that town, and if the dispatcher is on top of their game.

I’m not a constitutional scholar, my point really centers around the fact that Massachusetts has become antagonistic towards cops putting people down quote for their own safety…. If they are just padding down every person they come across, and find something, there’s a much greater chance of the courts tossing it now than they used to be. Unless you have articulable facts
 

mothybee

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Because theres a bunch of hyperbole often used when describing legal punishments for gun crimes which is not in alignment with real life results. Fake bullshit and hyperbole helps
no one. On a good day it results in people spreading misinformation. On a bad day it makes someone spread misinformation AND make a personal risk assessment based on erroneous
or fluffed up/exaggerated information. Either of these things often result in poor outcomes. Not to mention the atmosphere of fear it creates deters people from getting an LTC etc, if they believe that a minor transgression will get them thrown in the slammer.

For example if someone told me "you could go to jail for a few years for carrying a gun illegally in NJ" I would believe them, because.... that's actually happened. (see also, plaxico burress etc).

On the other hand, some histrionic boomer pant shitter will go around on some gun board and say "YEW GUIZE YEW COULD GO TO federal JAYLE for 10 YEARS or 250,000 FYNE FOR AN ILLEGUL MACHEEEN GUN!!!" but that never actually happens, the real deal is more like 1-3 years and some much smaller fine. (still heavy punishment, but also vastly reduced from the hyperbole).

In Mass the vast majority of dumb paper gun crimes end up in a CWOF, maybe (permanent or temporary) loss or suspension of LTC, some expensive legal fees and stolen shit by gov, but actually "going to jayle" you have to rack up a good score to actually have that happen.
If you say so, must be true.
 

thesyguy

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When we used to take our Scout troop to the rifle range we would double check their shoes to make sure a 22LR shell wasn’t stuck in the treads. Imagine what would happen if one fell out in the hallway at school on Monday morning?
 

drgrant

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If you say so, must be true.

Lol, read up on some actual case outcomes if you don't believe me, you don't have to go on the word of some guy on the internet. Talking to people "who have actually been through the shit" is pretty instructive, too.
 

AHM

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That’s a lot of words bro. I’ll do my best.
[thumbsup]

Not every cop is going to know that you have an LTC. It depends on their software, what they run you on, whether or not you live in that town, and if the dispatcher is on top of their game.
That's been my line in here for ages.

(I asked our previous Chief in 2014, and he said at that time
that our town's cruisers didn't automatically flag LTCs on any query.

Now, maybe it's actually SOP to upsell from fries to o-rings on any traffic stop.
Or maybe they upgraded the systems since then.
It's not like I hold it against the chief for answering the question I asked).

I’m not a constitutional scholar, my point really centers around the fact that Massachusetts has become antagonistic towards cops putting people down quote for their own safety…. If they are just padding down every person they come across, and find something, there’s a much greater chance of the courts tossing it now than they used to be. Unless you have articulable facts
If it's just tossing illegal possession charges, that ain't much.

I thought you were saying that it violated some law if one frisked a detainee
without an even better story than SCOTUS required in Terry...
 

peterk123

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Man if this is true the people that bought my house in Mass are f'd. I did my best, I truly did. But those little buggers get into all the nooks and crannies. I can guarantee you the new owners already have some stuck in the soles of their shoes and don't even know it.
 

FiremanBob

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Since a spent .22LR casing can't be reloaded, why isn't it excluded from the definition of "component"? Seems to me it is no longer a part which could be used to make a new cartridge.
 

AHM

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PUBLIC ENEMY No. 1...

1637629095533-png.545009
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot with a .22LR case stuck in the cleats stamping on a human face— forever.​
-- George Orwell, "1984"​

I might have made some of that up.
 

LLF

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Since a spent .22LR casing can't be reloaded, why isn't it excluded from the definition of "component"? Seems to me it is no longer a part which could be used to make a new cartridge.
Because the f**king a**holes who write these laws have absolutely NO idea what they are legislating. They listen to douchebags like John Rosenthal and Shannon (T)Watts and come up with these stupid regulations. Even a shell that could be re-loaded (9 mm, .45, etc.) would require thousands of dollars worth of equipment AND primers AND gunpowder all which require a license. Passing these idiotic laws just makes these morons feel like they have done something "to prevent gun violence".
 

Len-2A Training

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That’s a lot of words bro. I’ll do my best. Not every cop is going to know that you have an LTC. It depends on their software, what they run you on, whether or not you live in that town, and if the dispatcher is on top of their game.

I’m not a constitutional scholar, my point really centers around the fact that Massachusetts has become antagonistic towards cops putting people down quote for their own safety…. If they are just padding down every person they come across, and find something, there’s a much greater chance of the courts tossing it now than they used to be. Unless you have articulable facts
Many if not most PDs in Eastern MA have upgraded their MDTs to run CJISWeb. Officer on the road plugs in your license plate or drivers license and if that person has a LTC or FID, it immediately comes up on the screen. No fancy gyrations needed to get that info any more. Those PDs who don't have electricity yet or still use punch-tape to run a plate won't have that capability.
Since a spent .22LR casing can't be reloaded, why isn't it excluded from the definition of "component"? Seems to me it is no longer a part which could be used to make a new cartridge.
Because MA and Gunz! Those writing the laws are clueless, but hate guns and gun owners, so they write garbage laws.
 
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