handing out copies of your teaching certs...

[milktree]

Watertown has a new(er) rule that not only does everyone have to take a safety course within 9 months of a renewal or new license, but now they require a copy of the instructor's certificate.

Aside from it being a completely offensive requirement, are there any compelling reasons to *not* give copies of my NRA and/or SP cert. to my students?

 

[scouter-rick]

Notify Comm2A about this. Is it posted on their website or do you have anything in writing?

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

Since the Watertown PD (or any other PD) can easily verify an instructor's credentials, the only explanation for this requirement is to create an additional obstical to licensing and further discourage gun ownership in Watertown.

I'm so surprised.

 

[milktree]

Notify Comm2A about this. Is it posted on their website or do you have anything in writing?

http://www.watertownpd.org/detectives/fid_ltc/ltc.html

... An applicant must submit all of the following:

• A detailed letter to Chief Edward Deveau giving all the particulars for wanting to carry a firearm.
• Proof of citizenship. i.e., birth or naturalization certificate.
• Proof of residency. i.e., copy of a utility bill
• Written verification that you have recently (within 6-9 months) completed a firearms safety course approved by the Colonel of State Police. This course must be taught by a state approved firearms instructor. You must present a copy of the instructor's certification. This is required for NEW license applications. For RENEWAL applications you must show written verification that you have recently (within 6-9 months) been instructed in the proper care and safe use of handguns by a State, NRA, or Mass Criminal Justice Training Council certified instructor. You must present a copy of the instructor's certification.
• Two letters of reference.

yea, I'll contact Comm2A, this is completely bogus. Imagine if you needed to get a copy of your driver's-Ed instructor's certificate before getting a driver's license.

 

[scouter-rick]

As I read this they are not looking for copies of the Instructor's credentials... they are looking for the Mass. BFS Certification (In other words your completion certificate) from the instructor which is required everywhere. I think you are reading this incorrectly.

 

[milktree]

As I read this they are not looking for copies of the Instructor's credentials... they are looking for the Mass. BFS Certification (In other words your completion certificate) from the instructor which is required everywhere. I think you are reading this incorrectly.

I hope you're right.

However, that's a really weird way of saying that. I've never heard that phrase for it. Waltham's website says, "You must have completed a basic firearms safety course taught by a State certified instructor. Certificate MUST accompany application." Arlington says, "A Massachusetts Basic Firearms Safety Certificate issued by a certified Instructor is required for a first time LTC or FID Card." Those are typical of what I've read, and match my understanding of English grammar.

The phrase "instructor's certification" really sounds like certification issued *to* me, not *by* me.

I suppose I could call the Watertown PD and ask. But it's more fun to be outraged, right?

 

[WanMan99]

http://www.watertownpd.org/detectives/fid_ltc/ltc.html



yea, I'll contact Comm2A, this is completely bogus. Imagine if you needed to get a copy of your driver's-Ed instructor's certificate before getting a driver's license.

Next thing they'll be asking for is a copy of your last colonoscopy.... What a crock.

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

As I read this they are not looking for copies of the Instructor's credentials... they are looking for the Mass. BFS Certification (In other words your completion certificate) from the instructor which is required everywhere. I think you are reading this incorrectly.

I agree with your assessment.

Nothing (new) to see here.

 

[Independence Arms]

Well, they wanna know that before they F**K you, you have a clean bill of health!

Next thing they'll be asking for is a copy of your last colonoscopy.... What a crock.

 

[dwarven1]

As I read this they are not looking for copies of the Instructor's credentials... they are looking for the Mass. BFS Certification (In other words your completion certificate) from the instructor which is required everywhere. I think you are reading this incorrectly.

I have to admit, they way they phrase it makes it seem like they want a copy of the instructor's certificate - not the one he signs for the student, but the one that the INSTRUCTOR got from the NRA or the MASP.

Did anyone call them up to verify what they have on there and what they mean?

 

[milktree]

I have to admit, they way they phrase it makes it seem like they want a copy of the instructor's certificate - not the one he signs for the student, but the one that the INSTRUCTOR got from the NRA or the MASP.

Did anyone call them up to verify what they have on there and what they mean?

I called and left a message with the officer who deals with such things, but haven't gotten a call back yet.

 

[milktree]

I called and left a message with the officer who deals with such things, but haven't gotten a call back yet.

After leaving several messages, and getting a couple "this is so-and-so, returning your call" messages (but no answer in those messages) I finally got something resembling an answer.

It appears that the Watertown webmaster, or whoever wrote that text, is a crappy writer.

They only need the standard certificates issued *by* me, not *to* me.

 

[dwarven1]

It appears that the Watertown webmaster, or whoever wrote that text, is a crappy writer.

I'm shocked.

 

[Bill Nance]

I was asked one time to provide certificates showing that I was in fact NRA certified by a student. I had just moved, so it took some time to FIND them, but I provided them no questions asked.

If a PD insisted on them for a student's LTC, I provide them. -My student's welfare comes first. After they had got their LTC I would go in and have a heart-to-heart with the COP and arrive at an understanding.

Believeive it or not, most of these guys, if they are treated with respect (They've been on the job 20 years+ and raised to a high level of repsponsibility, they will expect and to some extent DESERVE respect) are amenable to reason.

As an instructor here I've had occasion to have a lot of interactions with high-level law enforcement.
You can choose to have a cooperative or an adversarial relationship. Your behavior and attitude will shape how that goes.

Do I approve of how LE CoPs have personal approval over rights? No, I don't. But that's the way it is for now. and the fight won't be won by making enemies of LE. Making them your friends and allies will work a lot better. My policy is that LEOs train for free.

It's cost me nothing, has netted me a lot of great contacts and has cemented me as an ally of LE in my area. When I need a favor, or a student does, who do you think gets a sympathetic treatment?