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Gold and silver prices are down

I didn't say that. Free shipping on ordering and shipping costs back are negotiable. Depends on what they need. Supply and demand and all.
Even in times of high demand, the buy/sell spread does not tend to shrink. My point is that there is no way you can avoid the fact that the brokerage loss on selling PMs is many times greater than that of conventional instruments.

The plus is that PMs move with the market even when they are not stored in a government regulated, monitored and supervised account.
 
Idle curiosity... Does the spread, albeit high, prevent you from investing in then? Or other reasons? Or do you think it's a good part of a portfolio as insurance against bad economic times?

Thx

Rich




Even in times of high demand, the buy/sell spread does not tend to shrink. My point is that there is no way you can avoid the fact that the brokerage loss on selling PMs is many times greater than that of conventional instruments.

The plus is that PMs move with the market even when they are not stored in a government regulated, monitored and supervised account.
 
The spread is one reason.

Another is the inconvenience of redemption. With financial instruments, any brokerage will sell them minus a fraction of a percent commission. Selling PMs is playing lets make a deal with many sellers trying to find the best price.

And then there is taxation. I'm not talking about small $$, but selling tens of thousands in PMs - not something one is going to do off the record with Iggy and Ziggy and the corner goldery. Gains on PMs are taxed as ordinary income no matter how long they have been held (a tidbit none of the sellers seem to mention when explaining the advantages of PM investing).

I sold a s-load of stock to buy my current house for ca$h. There is no way, short of criminal activity, to "hide" that level of asset sale - and it was bad enough paying long term capital gains. Plus the stock I sold appreciated more than gold during the time I held it.
 
If I shipped a gold coin, I don't think I'd get insurance, that would just draw attention to it. My PMs are really a hedge or insurance anyway, not an investment.
 
Stocks and bonds are like an internet grocery delivery service. Great and convenient when things are going well, but when times get tough, you may find they disappear.
 
But, if you got insurance and it got lost anyway (not stolen, just lost) you would be made whole.
I don't insure very much that I ship, but if it was gold? You betcha!

Yeah, it's just that I've probably shipped a hundred items by UPSP and never lost one. But a tiny envelope insured for $1000, that'd be a tempting target to disappear.
 
I've shipped and received hundreds of coins and PMs. I've never heard of or seen anyone ship anything over $200 without it being insured. I've had a couple of packages lost by USPS. I would recommend that folks ship anything of value using registered mail or at least add insurance and signature confirmation to whatever service you use.

If you sell a coin or PM back to a professional numismatist or PM distributor they have to buy at a point where they can make a profit on it. I have previously sold coins and PMs this way but not in the past several years. You can get closer to the actual market value by selling on coin boards like NGC or PCGS. Another route that works is ebay. List items at a penny to minimize your listing fees - PMs will sell at market value regardless of where you start them so no sense in wasting money starting them higher. Heritage auction house HA.com is an option if you have a truly rare item (R5 or higher on the numismatic rarity scale http://www.pcgscoinfacts.com/Features.aspx?page=7a ).

Finally, one piece of advice that I received early in my PM and numismatic experience that I think is worth repeating is - do not only buy coins. Be on both sides. If you haven't sold any coins or PMs do so. Many folks make the mistake of thinking that the price they paid for an item is the items value. The actual value is what you are able to sell it for.
 
On my first gold purchase it was from an individual who had purchased insurance and tracking. Well when it didn't show up I emailed him and asked what did the tracking show, to which he replied, delivered the day prior. We started looking into it and come to find out the PO delivered it to the house diagonally across the street. I'm an odd numbered house and they were an even number and the address on the package was correct, carrier must have just had a brain fart. I'm sure packages go missing, I just wouldn't want to be out either the money or the product.
 
Some years ago I had a few gold coins shipped to my office from Apmex.

I check UPS shipping and it says the package has been delivered. I check around the office and no one has the package. The UPS signature was a name we didn't recognize.

I call Apmex and tell them. They say the package has been delivered. I explain it has not been delivered and they check with UPS. The UPS driver says he delivered it to us. Nope, we don't have the package.

I ask a couple folks in the office to visit other companies in our building to see if the person signing for the package works there. And we found her and my package.

Later I get a call from UPS security, and he tells me their thinking of calling the police. He felt we were being dishonest. I explain to him that we found the package delivered to the wrong office. He tells me their driver verified he delivered it to the right place and hints that I may have been trying to be fraudulent. So I tell him to please call the cops because their driver is either incorrect or lying. That I never got the package. That the person who signed for it does not work here. And they should go to hell for making false accusations. The rest of the conversation did not go well, as I told them to eff off and stop the BS.

The conversation did not go well... but I wouldn't back down. Not when someone is questioning my integrity.
 
The conversation did not go well... but I wouldn't back down. Not when someone is questioning my integrity.

I had a similar reaction with my local post office. I was having something relatively inexpensive delivered and it was out for delivery. I saw on the tracking that it had been delivered but was no where to be seen at my property. I call the main PO line that tells me to call the local manager who should be on duty. He was still there and seemed surprised that his delivery driver would deliver a package to the wrong address. Fortunately they have a GPS check-in when they scan the packages and found it was delivered to a house with the same number but on a different street. He actually ended up going over there to get it and hand delivered it to me. Normally I get that same houses mail in error. This time they F'ed up the other way. It kind of irked me that he gave this feeling that there was no way his driver screwed up.
 
Some years ago I had a few gold coins shipped to my office from Apmex.

I check UPS shipping and it says the package has been delivered. I check around the office and no one has the package. The UPS signature was a name we didn't recognize.

I call Apmex and tell them. They say the package has been delivered. I explain it has not been delivered and they check with UPS. The UPS driver says he delivered it to us. Nope, we don't have the package.

I ask a couple folks in the office to visit other companies in our building to see if the person signing for the package works there. And we found her and my package.

Later I get a call from UPS security, and he tells me their thinking of calling the police. He felt we were being dishonest. I explain to him that we found the package delivered to the wrong office. He tells me their driver verified he delivered it to the right place and hints that I may have been trying to be fraudulent. So I tell him to please call the cops because their driver is either incorrect or lying. That I never got the package. That the person who signed for it does not work here. And they should go to hell for making false accusations. The rest of the conversation did not go well, as I told them to eff off and stop the BS.

The conversation did not go well... but I wouldn't back down. Not when someone is questioning my integrity.

Never ship anything valuable or breakable by UPS. The only time I ship UPS is if sending something back to Amazon.
 
I had Fedex deliver a 1911 to an unsuspecting homeowner who lived down the street from a gunsmith.

Fedex sent someone out to redeliver, and overnighted me a refund check for the shipping.
 
I'm selling a 1oz gold eagle for $1,200 cash. FTF in the Townsend area if anyone is interested. I got hit with an unexpected expense an need some fast cash. That about $150 under spot.
If no one on this forum buys it from you, try Boston Bullion in Burlington. They will pay you the spot price minus $10.
 
So, don't leave us hanging.
Did he give you the gold back or say he didn't know what you were talking about?
If he did give it back, is he now buried in your basement for knowing you collect Gold?

lol sorry I didn't reply sooner. Yes he did give the package to us, and he never even opened it, even though he had it for 2-3 days. I would like to think that he would have dropped it off at my house eventually, even though it is basically across the street, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. And since he didn't open it, I didn't have to bury him.
 
Hi guys. I know very little about buying and selling gold/silver. Read just a little on the web a while back but didn't retain much. Thought I'd post here because I recently came across a 1939 Mercury dime. Cursory Google search suggests it's worth about 1.25 in melt value or about 3 for collectors. What should I know about this coin? How about investing in gold/silver in general?
 
What should I know about this coin? How about investing in gold/silver in general?
"Junk silver" sells a a big discount to spot when you go to liquidate it.

The only way to get the collector value is perhaps ebay.

PM investing is "buy at retail, sell at wholesale". Pay attention to the round-trip loss assuming no market value change when selecting the form in which you get PMs (rounds, bars, sovereign coinage, etc.).

Profits are taxes at "ordinary income" rates - no capital gains on collectibles.

Investing for numistmatic value takes a lot of expertise.
 
There's a BIG difference between PM value and numismatic value. If you're interested in collecting coins, that'a very different path that's based upon age, rarity, condition and general collectibility. Yes, some coins command more money because people just like them.

Gold/silver can be collected via the purchase of coinage or bars. There are all sorts of folks who make gold bars, from 1 gram to hundreds of ounces, and larger.

At the moment gold is about $1318 per troy ounce. Silver is about $17.45 per troy ounce. A troy ounce is 9-10% larger than the standard ounce measurement used here in the US. There are 14.58 troy ounces per pound, rather than 16.

Although I do like the intrinsic beauty of some coins, such as the St Gaudens $20 gold piece from the early 20th century, you pay a premium above and beyond the price of gold for these.

I break the market down into a couple of defined areas. There are private mints, such as Apmex and Sunshine Mining, and government based mints. These are most major countries, including the US, Canada, Mexico, China, South Africa, Australia, England and many more. I prefer coinage from major countries, particularly the US. Put simply, there are fake coins out there. Both gold and silver. Should someone counterfeit a US gold/silver coin they can and will be prosecuted by the Secret Service. It's a dangerous play. However, knocking off a private mint's products, albeit illegal, may not get the same level of attention and scrutiny by law enforcement.

And that's one of the reasons you want to buy from respected dealers. They stand behind their products. All they have is their reputation and inventory, and if they lose their reputation they risk losing their businesses.

Most of the stuff I've bought is US. When premiums have been really, really low I've bought some Canadian too. Canadian silver maples go on sale from time to time.

I only buy small quantities. And I generally do so on eBay for a couple reasons. First and foremost, there are sales that pop up that are good buys. And then I can use a credit card to buy them, giving me air miles. If I buy directly from an Apmex, for example, they'll add 3% for credit card purchases, or I have to get involved in a wire transfer or mail them a bank check. eBay just makes it all much more convenient.

On eBay I've purchased from a few vendors, primarily Apmex, but also an odd order from JM Bullion, Liberty Coin, Pinehurst and MCM. All have been fine. Watch for vendors with tens or hundreds of thousands of transactions an a positive rating of 99.9% and higher. Apmex has a quality guarantee, but I've never had to use it. I bought a silver coin from them that was in a plastic capsule. The capsule got cracked in shipping and I sent them an email. They fed-ex'd a new capsule. No doubt in my mind the fed-ex charges were way more expensive than the 50 cent capsule.

Also consider how you'll store the coins. Gold is inert, so not much worry there. But silver can and will tarnish, so consider where you're keeping them. And consider where you'll want to keep them from a security standpoint. A few years ago someone bought an old desk from an estate sale. They took out the drawers to clean it up and they found tens of thousands of dollars in jewelry and PM's. A friend passed away a few years ago and we knew he had some gold coins although we did not know how many. He had showed us a few and indicated there were more. We found some but think there's still some in stashed somewhere. Sadly his wife knew about them, but he didn't tell her where he kept them. DOH!

So the issue of storage and security are important.

If you have more questions please do ask!

Rich



Hi guys. I know very little about buying and selling gold/silver. Read just a little on the web a while back but didn't retain much. Thought I'd post here because I recently came across a 1939 Mercury dime. Cursory Google search suggests it's worth about 1.25 in melt value or about 3 for collectors. What should I know about this coin? How about investing in gold/silver in general?
 
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