• If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership  The benefits pay for the membership many times over.

Gold and silver prices are down

alan226 said:
You mean suicide....
Click to expand...

of the non-consensual variety.
enbloc said:
Real World price on a Random Year ASE is $7-8 bucks more before shipping and insurance. High premiums suck...

JM Bullion 10:30pm July 14, 2020:
Qty(e)Check/WireBTC/ETHCard/PayPal
1-19 $26.26 $26.53 $27.35
Click to expand...

Yeah, unfortunately the retail coin/bar market is a relatively small part of the overall silver market - so the mints can't keep up with demand. Hopefully they'll expand production capacity, but they don't like to do that.
 
In fairness to the PM retailers, my premiums for selling would be significantly higher than theirs is. I see every reason to buy (or at least hold) and very little incentive to sell right now.
 
whacko said:
I know the premiums. I'm not looking to buy I'm waiting to sell. Sitting on a decent stash I bought for $15.50 per ounce cash and carry when the price was right.
Click to expand...
I mean if you’re short on cash or in dire straits I get it but if not why on God’s green earth would you even think of selling your physical silver? If you bought 1k oz’s I guess, but if you bought like 20 or 50 Buffaloes hold that stuff man.

We are in a much different place that we were in 2008-2011. If you want to buy it later on remorse when Biden is prez you will pay a capital gains tax of 20% on that precious metal purchase.
 
There have already been a few producers in the gold mining sector who have sold off tens of thousands of ounces for revenues exceeding $50 million or more. Gold out of the ground is selling for around $1000 an ounce. One gold miner that I was invested in sold enough ounces of gold for a total gain of $54 million.

Basically, there will be a great quarterly report from almost all of the gold producers. When it comes to the explorers and the developers all they have right now is at best, assets of land with mineral resources, and at worst only intellectual property.

That being said, I love miners. I’m invested in them and have see some phenomenal gains. It’s a volatile market and you have to perform due diligence before you make that trade.
 
djbradles said:
I mean if you’re short on cash or in dire straits I get it but if not why on God’s green earth would you even think of selling your physical silver? If you bought 1k oz’s I guess, but if you bought like 20 or 50 Buffaloes hold that stuff man.

We are in a much different place that we were in 2008-2011. If you want to buy it later on remorse when Biden is prez you will pay a capital gains tax of 20% on that precious metal purchase.
Click to expand...
I have a certain amount that I keep long term and will probably never sell. But......I bought a chunky amount when I had a deal at $15.50 out the door on pure speculation that the price will do what it did in 2011 (or similar not expecting $50 per ounce) and I'll flip it. Papa needs a brand new gun. 🤣

Seriously though that's the deal. I have a certain amount I'll never sell...but this recent buy I'm just playing with.

And as far as needing cash.....no.....that's not it I'm "good"......well.....more than good actually I own my house.....the bank doesn't (that was step one in our retirement plan). 😏
 
djbradles said:
I mean if you’re short on cash or in dire straits I get it but if not why on God’s green earth would you even think of selling your physical silver? If you bought 1k oz’s I guess, but if you bought like 20 or 50 Buffaloes hold that stuff man.

We are in a much different place that we were in 2008-2011. If you want to buy it later on remorse when Biden is prez you will pay a capital gains tax of 20% on that precious metal purchase.
Click to expand...

don't worry about Biden, he'll off himself with two bullets to the head.
 
whacko said:
I have a certain amount that I keep long term and will probably never sell. But......I bought a chunky amount when I had a deal at $15.50 out the door on pure speculation that the price will do what it did in 2011 (or similar not expecting $50 per ounce) and I'll flip it. Papa needs a brand new gun. 🤣

Seriously though that's the deal. I have a certain amount I'll never sell...but this recent buy I'm just playing with.

And as far as needing cash.....no.....that's not it I'm "good"......well.....more than good actually I own my house.....the bank doesn't (that was step one in our retirement plan). 😏
Click to expand...

Silver went to $50 in 2011 cause people thought $3.5 trillion in Fed printing would lead to inflation. It didn't so silver sold off hard.

This time not only has the Fed printed another $3 trillion, the government has issued a $3 trillion stimulus, much of which went into the economy rather than financial markets. That will lead to traditional inflation which you didn't see in 2011.

The real kicker is that in 2011 the Fed took 3 years to print $3:5 trillion, buy this time we had double that amount in 3 months, and we may need another one every 2-3 months.

So $50 is probably just going to be a pit stop this time. I'd hold onto those ounces a little longer.
 
GomerPile said:
What does the “hive” think about gold miner stocks?

Gold price is up, fuel cost is low seems like a setup for a great quarterly report.
Click to expand...

My 401k is like 85% gold and silver mining stocks. So yeah I'm all in. it's a perfect storm of great fundamentals for gold miners. 0% rates are also a huge driver since there's no longer any yield disadvantage to owning gold.
 
It’s laughable how the MSM is constantly stating that gold is gaining because of the coronavirus. That CNBC headline gets old really quick. It couldn’t be the massive printing by central banks or myriad other issues, of course not.
 
djbradles said:
It’s laughable how the MSM is constantly stating that gold is gaining because of the coronavirus. That CNBC headline gets old really quick. It couldn’t be the massive printing by central banks or myriad other issues, of course not.
Click to expand...

Well, CNBC needs a way to explain that the gold rally is temporary and nothing to pay attention to. Go back to buying FAANG stocks, sheeple.
 
djbradles said:
I mean if you’re short on cash or in dire straits I get it but if not why on God’s green earth would you even think of selling your physical silver? If you bought 1k oz’s I guess, but if you bought like 20 or 50 Buffaloes hold that stuff man.

We are in a much different place that we were in 2008-2011. If you want to buy it later on remorse when Biden is prez you will pay a capital gains tax of 20% on that precious metal purchase.
Click to expand...
Please explain. I have never heard of the concept of paying a "capital gains tax" on a purchase, only a sale.

There is no capital gains tax on the sale of PMs. Such sales are taxed a "collectible" sales and taxed at ordinary income rates - a little detail none of the sellers websites list in their "buy" analysis of the gold market.
 
Rob Boudrie said:
Please explain. I have never heard of the concept of paying a "capital gains tax" on a purchase, only a sale.

There is no capital gains tax on the sale of PMs. Such sales are taxed a "collectible" sales and taxed at ordinary income rates - a little detail none of the sellers websites list in their "buy" analysis of the gold market.
Click to expand...

Semantics aside my quote was taken somewhat from this story:

“Capital gains taxes are the price of making a good investment. They’re levied on profitable stock trades and real estate deals but also can apply to sales of businesses, pieces of art, collectible cars, gold and other assets. President Donald Trump’s administration is looking at ways to reduce capital gains tax bills for investors, while Democrats seeking to challenge him in 2020 have put a tax increase on the table.”
 
will pay a capital gains tax of 20% on that precious metal purchase
Click to expand...
My point was that you pay the tax upon sale, not purchase.

For persons in a federal income tax bracket over 20% (about $39K for an individual; $79K for a couple filing jointly) 20% capital gains will be a REDUCTION in taxes, since gains on PMs are now taxed as ordinary income no matter how long you hold the asset.

The current trap is PMs do NOT get capital gains treatment which, in general, is favorable compared to ordinary income treatment.

Capital gains taxes are the price of making a good investment. They’re levied on profitable stock trades and real estate deals but also can apply to sales of businesses, pieces of art, collectible cars, gold and other asset
Click to expand...
Not really in the case of gold.

www.journalofaccountancy.com

Tax-efficient investing in gold

Whether as bullion, coins, funds, stocks, or derivatives, gold holds an age-old fascination. Smart investing takes into account how gains are taxed.
www.journalofaccountancy.com www.journalofaccountancy.com
"Taxes and investing in gold​
​
Gains from investments in physical gold and physical gold ETFs outside an IRA are taxed as collectibles. If a gold investment is held more than one year, any gain is taxed at the same rate as ordinary income, except with a maximum tax rate of 28%".​
 
Last edited:
That's funny! I think my dad is a VIP over at APMEX. He got worried about the market a while back, sold some stock, and bought a bunch gold and silver from Apmex. I can't recall how much but it was than my entire collection that I had been accumulating over two decades. He tells me that Apmex will occasionally call him to ask him about potential future purchases but he's never bought PMs before or since haha [laugh]
 
Win said:
That's funny! I think my dad is a VIP over at APMEX. He got worried about the market a while back, sold some stock, and bought a bunch gold and silver from Apmex. I can't recall how much but it was than my entire collection that I had been accumulating over two decades. He tells me that Apmex will occasionally call him to ask him about potential future purchases but he's never bought PMs before or since haha [laugh]
Click to expand...

I certainly have not purchased enough from Apmex to make me a VIP in even a nudie bar... never mind Apmex. Maybe it's my manly good looks or charismatic personality... or a computer error...

:)
 
Varmint said:
I'm gonna go with $399 over spot.
Click to expand...

JM Bullion is 249 over spot for 100 oz bars.

whacko said:
I just crunched the math and jm is 3.99 over spot for Canadian maples.
Click to expand...

Yea that's for 1 oz coins, not 100 oz bars.

Technical tax question:

If you buy for cash and sell for cash, how the hell s the IRS going to know what you paid and what you sold at?

I know I held a number of 100oz bars for a short term and sold them to the dealer that I bought from. I did get a 1099 for that sale since it was over 10K. The buy price was left open since I paid cash. On the tax return form I deducted my buy price from the sale price and paid tax on that difference at my tax rate. How is the IRS going to disprove my buy price?

Since most of us continue to buy, when sold, how does anyone know what we paid. The stuff I bought at 18$ spot looks the same as the stuff I bought for $8. So I guess I sold the 18$ spot stuff.
 
smokey-seven said:
JM Bullion is 249 over spot for 100 oz bars.



Yea that's for 1 oz coins, not 100 oz bars.

Technical tax question:

If you buy for cash and sell for cash, how the hell s the IRS going to know what you paid and what you sold at?

I know I held a number of 100oz bars for a short term and sold them to the dealer that I bought from. I did get a 1099 for that sale since it was over 10K. The buy price was left open since I paid cash. On the tax return form I deducted my buy price from the sale price and paid tax on that difference at my tax rate. How is the IRS going to disprove my buy price?

Since most of us continue to buy, when sold, how does anyone know what we paid. The stuff I bought at 18$ spot looks the same as the stuff I bought for $8. So I guess I sold the 18$ spot stuff.
Click to expand...
I've never encountered a shop that handed out a 1099....but then again I've never sold $10k worth 🤣

So.......here's an even better question......they don't know what you bought it at......so there's that .....but also does the shop record that they even gave you a 1099? What would happen if you just didn't file it at all?
 
Filers of 1099's send an annual report to the IRS listing exactly what was filed. BTDT.

In addition to the premium, compare spot between vendors. The APMEX spot for Gold is currently $7.71 more than the JM Bullion spot, and APMEX silver spot is .05 above the JM Bullion price. Platinum spot is $7.84 more at APMEX so a pattern starts to emerge. Monex shows lower than either of those for Gold but is the highest of the three for silver.
 
Rob Boudrie said:
Filers of 1099's send an annual report to the IRS listing exactly what was filed. BTDT.

In addition to the premium, compare spot between vendors. The APMEX spot for Gold is currently $7.71 more than the JM Bullion spot, and APMEX silver spot is .05 above the JM Bullion price. Platinum spot is $7.84 more at APMEX so a pattern starts to emerge. Monex shows lower than either of those for Gold but is the highest of the three for silver.
Click to expand...

JM Bullion seems a little less trustworthy to me. I've ordered from them a couple times and didn't get the warm fuzzy you get from Apmex.
 
alan226 said:
I'd love to buy more silver, but can't bring myself to pay 30%+ over spot....
Click to expand...

Take a close look at your stack overall. Dollar cost averaging changes that buy it today price into an average you may be able to live with.

Shortages are not going away in a month and Eagles may never catch up this year. Don't forget this is the last year for this design of the SE's.

I bought a bunch of MS70 First Strike SE's and will repeat a matching number in 2021 so I will have the last and first in MS70 First Strikes.

MS69's are now selling for what I paid for the MS70's.
 

Similar threads

Gold Question from Newbie
Replies
23
Views
872
Varmint
Varmint
FREE….seed starting and basic garden planning & questions seminar. 4/6/24 Hardwick MA
Replies
7
Views
99
mousegunguy
mousegunguy
Problem with my ExPed DownMat 7...
Replies
9
Views
262
Andy in NH
Andy in NH
US Senators Are Being Issued Satellite Phones in Preparation for a 'Disruptive Event'
Replies
11
Views
1K
GM-GUY
GM-GUY
good video on what happens when grid goes down
Replies
10
Views
848
bolt
bolt
Back
Top Bottom