You're kidding me, right?
There are cops that actually read the stuff posted here that is so incoherent as to be laughable??
Tell me it's not true?
I guess I'll just have to shelter in place!
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Friend is losing his LTC
- Thread starter Skylineracer329
- Start date
You're kidding me, right?
There are cops that actually read the stuff posted here that is so incoherent as to be laughable??
Tell me it's not true?
I guess I'll just have to shelter in place!
Same.
You are right and I agree. I never said they weren't important. I just take personal offense to comparing the bill of rights to the right to drink. If people worried about the constitutional rights more I have a sneaky suspicion that the other "non constitutional" ones wouldn't be infringed. Instead they worry about their "comfort" rights while the core ones are eroded. So when someone compares having a drink and taking a ride to owning a firearm, I think it's a little weak. But hey..as was said before I must be an Obama constitutionalist.
If you are transporting a loaded handgun, it must be under your control. Under your control has never been defined, but being in the trunk probably doesn't comply.
This isn't new. See mgl chapter 140 section 131c, paragraph a:
Note that the word firearm means handgun in this section of the law.
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It was finally defined about three and a half year ago in Comm. v. Eustace Patterson., where the appeals court said that "a firearm is within the ‘control’ of its owner or authorized user only when that person has it sufficiently nearby to prevent immediately its unauthorized use."
You've posted that before, with the same implication that this text somehow clarifies it. It certainly doesn't clarify it to me. Near as I can tell, it is still entirely subjective. If you are in your car and the gun is in your trunk and you have locked the car, is it in your control or not? I bet you that 9 out if 10 cops would say it is not.
Not to derail but all this loaded/unloaded in the trunk stuff has me now more confused than ever.
Is loaded in the trunk but in a locked case good or no?
Seems just loaded in trunk is bad. No?
What IS loaded/unloaded? Full mag in gun but empty chamber? No ammo locked in case with handgun? Mag loaded but not in gun? Mag loaded but not in case with gun?
I hate the effing vagueness of the laws in Ma.![[hmmm]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/009.gif "Hmm [hmmm]")
Is loaded in the trunk but in a locked case good or no?
Seems just loaded in trunk is bad. No?
What IS loaded/unloaded? Full mag in gun but empty chamber? No ammo locked in case with handgun? Mag loaded but not in gun? Mag loaded but not in case with gun?
I hate the effing vagueness of the laws in Ma.
DarthRevan
NES Member
... I cant fathom the proper response for how much this comparison sucks
Stop trying to conflate MA law with NH law. One thing is in NH if you don't have a P/R license, having ANY loaded handgun in an MV is definitely illegal. If you do then there doesn't appear to be any stipulation/limitation on it.
-Mike
DarthRevan
NES Member
So... I can open carry freely in that beautiful state... but I cant have it in my holster loaded while driving without a P/R.
Sounds like libtards have been moving in
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To make it unloaded, wouldn't that be brandishing?
*sigh*
That isn't a new proscription, it's been that way for a long ass time. The problem is that the RSAs prohibit carrying a loaded handgun in an MV, and one of the exemptions from that law is having a P/R license. Just get the license and be done with it.
No such law in NH. Just don't be retarded, but frankly, unloading and loading your handgun constantly IS kinda retarded.
-Mike
Sorry, didn't mean to be annoying. Just want to make sure that people know about the Patterson case.
The court's statement is quite helpful for understanding the storage statute (131L). Then, it tells us when the gun does not have to be locked up. I agree that it's less helpful for understanding 131C(a), but I don't think we have any other case law to go on.
Section 131C in its current form appeared in 1998 (Ch. 180, sec. 44 of the Acts of 1998). Does anyone know what 131C said before then?
I don't know what the purpose of 131C was (beyond just "gun control"), but a possible narrative is that it was intended to prevent most people from having guns available in their cars in a condition so that they can be used to shoot police officers at traffic stops. That's why the statute generally requires guns to be unloaded, and extra killy guns (high-capacity long guns and handguns) have to be in the trunk, just to be doubly sure. Then an exception is made for those with class-A licenses, who are allowed to keep their carry guns loaded in the car as well. They are, however, required to keep the loaded handguns under their direct control so that nobody else in the car can grab it (or even remove it from a locked case) and shoot the cop. That's one possible way to make sense of 131C, but I just made it up; there is no guarantee that a judge will see it the same way.
I would agree with the 9.
Quiet
Banned
Taken in totality with the rest of the law, in the section on large capacity rifles it is clearly stated that the gun must be unloaded, apparently led someone who is not me to believe that only long guns needed to be unloaded.
Fuxsters.
I can only imagine the hilarity someone would have (someone who is definitely not me!) who travels to the range with duly unloaded long guns but loaded handguns thinking he was complying with the law should he have been in a car accident on the way to the range...
Why does everyone always either forget about or ignore the 9th Amendment. Still in the Bill of Rights, right?
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Not if you ask SCOTUS.
Without reading 20 pages. In NH, if you carry without a permit: 1st offense is a misdemeanor. 2nd offense is a stiffer misdemeanor. 3rd offense is a felony. This was explained to me when I got my first carry permit around 1973. May be BS. Check for yourself.
WELL SAID! BRAVO! You should have read the responses some of these tool bags gave me when I posted about my brother getting pinched for DUI while he was parked in a public car top fishing access area sleeping in his truck. He had been fishing in his canoe.....yup fell off the wagon and drank while fishing..........realized he should wait awhile before driving and left the canoe (worth $1000 by the way) on the ground next to the truck, climbed in the cab, started the truck for heat (it was last spring and cold out), and went to sleep. Anyway.....cruiser pulls in taps on the window......wakes him up smells booze and then yada yada yada hes in cuffs. Operation under the influence is key in ignition. Bullshit! His only defense is the very valuable canoe was not loaded showing no intent to drive away........which he had no intention of doing. This a draconian law at its finest here......key in the ignition is arresting someone for something they MIGHT do as far as I'm concerned. That law needs to go.
So.........lets flame me again all you no sympathy for driving drunk guys!
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You guys should not be subjected to any laws above & beyond what the general public has to live by.
As a group, the truckers should ban together & get those special provisions to the laws thrown out.
Especially when there are people that are completely hammered, get arrested & get a slap on the wrist. Multiple times!
You probably should have read the thread. P and R or LTC has not much to do with this. The OPS buddy has (well at this point HAD) an LTC in Mass and was arrested for intoxicated while in possession of a fire arm.......and got a transport violation charge because his gun was loaded and in the trunk. He blew .05. Not sure where carrying with or without a permit falls into this conversation but thanks for the inf0
Win
NES Member
Thanks. I wasn't even aware that this was illegal. Seems pretty harsh IMHO...
Not to derail but all this loaded/unloaded in the trunk stuff has me now more confused than ever.
Is loaded in the trunk but in a locked case good or no?
Seems just loaded in trunk is bad. No?
What IS loaded/unloaded? Full mag in gun but empty chamber? No ammo locked in case with handgun? Mag loaded but not in gun? Mag loaded but not in case with gun?
I hate the effing vagueness of the laws in Ma.
1) A loaded handgun in a locked case in the trunk is unlikely to be considered under your control, and would therefore violate the transporting statute 131c if you are driving the car. I believe it would be in compliance with the storage statute 131L.
2) Loaded in the trunk (no case) would likely also violate the transporting statute. It isn't clear to me if it would violate the storage statute 131L or not.
3) In my opinion, a loaded magazine in the gun would be considered loaded, whether or not a round is chambered. IMO, a loaded magazine not inserted in the gun would not be considered loaded.
I'm unaware of any statutory definition of "loaded". MGL Chapter 140 Section 121 contains the definitions for Chapter 140 firearms laws and it does not define loaded. My recommendation would be to not have the ammunition in the locked case with the gun, but that is not based on any statute or case law, just my opinion.
Please note that I am not a lawyer and this isn't legal advice.
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I disagree so very strongly. It doesn't tell us a damn thing. It is so subjective a description that it is meaningless. You could ask ten different people what it means and get ten different answers.
GlockJock
NES Member
In Georgia or Arizona or (etc), Sherrif B.T. Justice would've driven the poor fella home, helped him inside and put the .38 in the nightstand, then went about the rest of his shift...
Yep.
People just run around with flames in their hair.
NOTHING HAPPEND
NO ONE GOT HURT
PEOPLE MAKE ACCIDENTS ALL THE TIME
This dude just happened to have a beer an hour ago and had a firearm in his trunk.
Wake the **** up out of your state induced comma.
You wanna hear a nice comment, and a logical one ? Which would have probably been written if there was an internet service 30 years ago ?
"How is your friend doing after having a car accident"?
"Well, if he was able to get out of the tipover shit while walking, good for him"
WTF is going on ...
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Some people mistake my hatred of drunk driving laws for being soft on drunk drivers. I'm not soft at all.....you want tonsee real reductions in DUI INJURIED (capitalized for emphasis on non drakonian laws)......when someone gets in a DUI collision and causes damage then take their license permanently and add still jail time. You solve two problems......get rid of the reduction in freedom due to the current draconian BS......and ACTUALLY remove drunk drivers from the road permanently that create damage to others. Has to be better than the current revolving door of DUI offense followed by another DUI offense then another and another.
DarthRevan
NES Member
Even better when they pull up that close to you then ride your ass for a mile then throw the lights on because you didn't move out of his way in heavy traffic.
no you don't have to say anything. Yes your vehicle while be inventoried.
A locked case will require a warrant during an inventory search.
Jason Flare
NES Member
The current revolving door in a revenue generator.
[QUOTim =bill o;4168898]Which law mandates you answer that question? Not arguing, just curious.
Also, does an "inventory" allow for destroying a lockbox?[/QUOTE]
Yeah Im curious as to what law mandates you answer the question too.
Inventory search of your vehicle incident to a tow/arrest does not allow cutting locks off of a lockbox, at least at my dept anyways. Youd need a search warrant.
Also, does an "inventory" allow for destroying a lockbox?[/QUOTE]
Yeah Im curious as to what law mandates you answer the question too.
Inventory search of your vehicle incident to a tow/arrest does not allow cutting locks off of a lockbox, at least at my dept anyways. Youd need a search warrant.
