Friend found an old gun in the basement

I like it....man I cant find cool stuff like that...best find for me was a few daisy bb guns .
 
Palladin said:
it's worth some $$, pre 1968 so it doesn't exist.
looks like a smoothbore single shot
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Looks like a Single-Action Antique. Any Maker on it ?

If it's an Antique - 1899 or before - legally you require no License to own it in MA. That does NOT mean you can start carrying it in public !

Though I'm hoping it does not fit the legal definition of a Short-Barrel Shotgun. That could be a problem.

Need close-ups.
 
SalemCat said:
I've used eFA-10 to transfer firearms to myself - had to. They came from out-of-state to me as a C&R FFL-03. In fact, I'm legally required to eFA-10 them to myself.

But the main thing is we all look at this gun. If it's a rusted solid Iver Johnson, time for the trash. Not worth the time or money.

But if it's decent, yes, bringing it to a Gun Dealer to buy or transfer simplifies things a lot.

If we can see it I'm certain you'll get appraisals aplenty.
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Yes but you're situation is not the same.
 
It is an old Stevens tip-up .22 single shot. I have one that was in my Dad's things. It was made when .22's were loaded with black powder and there is barely any rifling left. I shot it once and it key holed at 20 feet. Interesting gun but minimal value even in good condition.
 
rmaclean86 said:
Quite frankly, if its an old basement find then there is a good chance that it was never registered to anyone. It does not exist, but to make things "hunky dory" in lib land you can take possession and (remember, an e FA-10 can be used for personal transfer, purchase or registration) just register it in your name. Done. What have you done? Taken an unregistered arm and lawfully registered it. There are other alternatives as presented in earlier responses....
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bostonasphalt2 said:
If you want to stay truly legal, you cannot FA10 it to yourself. To say otherwise is bad advice!
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This
bostonasphalt2 said:
Yes but you're situation is not the same.
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This too


IANAL so I wasn't gonna add my 2 cents, but I would think that technically the gun belongs -illegally- to the new homeowner assuming that the new homeowner never had a license and that when ownership transferred an FA-10 wasn't filed, so that's a violation and the friend doesn't even qualify for the civil infraction because that's only when the gun is illegally posessed SOLELY for an expired license if he was ever licensed. I think you can't then transfer the gun from him to you through an FTF FA-10 because there is, in fact, a seller involved. It has to go through an FFL.

But like I said, IANAL and this would be my guess on the sucky situation.

ETA: Good point made by Garys below about age! My post is assuming it's post 1898
 
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The big question is how old? The way to answer that is to provide as much information as you can and hopefully someone will know what it is. If it's an antique, made before 1899, it's not a firearm under MA or federal law so he can sell it to anyone. If it's made after 1898, then it's a firearm and has to go through either a 01 (dealer) or 03 (collector of curious and relics) FFL.
 
I would like to understand why an FFL would necessarily be involved in any case. My impression is that the law is simply not clear on this topic, this type of transfer, a found gun, was not anticipated. Or, maybe it was, and there is a well defined protocol for this and I just don't know it.
 
Madisonian said:
I would like to understand why an FFL would necessarily be involved in any case. My impression is that the law is simply not clear on this topic, this type of transfer, a found gun, was not anticipated. Or, maybe it was, and there is a well defined protocol for this and I just don't know it.
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IF it's a firearm then it must go through a dealer. A non LTC or FID holder can't possess, let alone sell a firearm to anyone other than a dealer. I went through this last year with a friend whose Dad died and left a gun behind. My friend had no LTC and wanted to sell the gun. Since I'm licensed I could hold the gun until a buyer was located. At that point I conveyed the firearm to a local dealer who transferred the firearm to his inventory and then out to the buyer. The seller was my friend, not me because while I could hold the firearm for him, he couldn't transfer it to me or anyone else. That had do go through a FFL. That's what the law in MA requires. Other states are different. Well actually MOST other states are different. Down south I'm told that it's very common for all sorts of firearms to be sold FTF at yard sales and even estate sales.

I also helped the same friend sell an antique S&W revolver. That required no FFL since it was made in 1893 and was an easier deal.
 
SalemCat said:
If it's an Antique - 1899 or before - legally you require no License to own it in MA. That does NOT mean you can start carrying it in public !

Though I'm hoping it does not fit the legal definition of a Short-Barrel Shotgun. That could be a problem
Click to expand...

These two lines seem contradictory. If it was made before 1898 it's not a firearm. Period. At all. Nope, certainly is NOT a firearm. As such, can be possessed by anybody, just as with any other object that isn't a firearm. So it can't meet the definition of an SBS, because shotguns are-wait for it-firearms. Which a pre-1898 object cannot be.
 
Well, it's not a Frank Wesson Rolling Block, as it's action is totally different. It's something similar, though. IMHO it's 1899 or before. A legal Antique Firearm.

Legal Antique Firearms can be owned, in MA, by any Adult who is not a Prohibited Person. So you friend can most likely legally own it. It's likely it does not require a Safety Lock, either.

Clearly manufactured, given the Serial Number. But by who ?

Anyone know of a good Antique Firearm forum the OP can post to ?

(so glad it's no shotgun)
 
We plan on bringing the firearm to a ffl and have it transfered to me, but can't figure out what type of gun it is. I'm assuming we will that piece of the puzzle.
 
If a smoothbore has a barrel less than 18", it's Any Other Weapon (Under the NFA) and, therefore, evil

If it has a rifled barrel, it's a pistol, and less evil.

This is why an original Liberator had a smoothbore barrel (cheaper to make) - BUT it's a "Curio or Relic" per ATF, otherwise it's a short-barreled shotgun (AOW),
and a reproduction has a rifled barrel (now, it's a legal pistol)
 
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WallHack said:
These two lines seem contradictory. If it was made before 1898 it's not a firearm. Period. At all. Nope, certainly is NOT a firearm. As such, can be possessed by anybody, just as with any other object that isn't a firearm. So it can't meet the definition of an SBS, because shotguns are-wait for it-firearms. Which a pre-1898 object cannot be.
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This is a good link: General Laws: CHAPTER 140, Section 121

Which supports your assertation. And I'd be inclined to agree with you. BUT.... In actual practice there was a guy in MA (covered in other threads) who got jammed up pretty good for carrying an Antique Handgun without an LTC-A CC. I believe he was acquitted on appeal. Not a good situation.

I buy Antiques from a MA FFL. He makes me do the background check thing every time. Just like I were buying a Brand New Glock. Caution is king.

As far as Antiques go, Mass Law states Firearms manufactured in 1889 are Antiques, CONTRARY to the ATF which states clearly only BEFORE 1899. What does the extra year buy you ? A Federal Felony should you ship an 1899 Firearm across State Lines without FFL on both ends.

And the Laws in NY, IL, CA, and CT ? As bad as MA, probably worse.
 
MisterHappy said:
If a smoothbore has a barrel less than 18", it's Any Other Weapon (Under the NFA) and, therefore, evil

If it has a rifled barrel, it's a pistol, and less evil.

This is why an original Liberator had a smoothbore barrel (cheaper to make) - BUT it's a "Curio or Relic" per ATF,
and a reproduction has a rifled barrel (now, it's a legal pistol)
Click to expand...

Of course, MUZZLELOADERS of every evil variety, pre-1899, are ATF-Legal. I think.

I do know the LeMat Pistol, a Percussion Cap Muzzleloader Pistol, which incorporates a very short smoothbore muzzle-loading SHOTGUN beneath the main barrel in its design is generally considered to be a Legal Antique and exempt from most laws, in most States. Even Replicas are Legal Antiques per the ATF.

Le_Mat_Revolver.jpg
 
SalemCat said:
This is a good link: General Laws: CHAPTER 140, Section 121

Which supports your assertation. And I'd be inclined to agree with you. BUT.... In actual practice there was a guy in MA (covered in other threads) who got jammed up pretty good for carrying an Antique Handgun without an LTC-A CC. I believe he was acquitted on appeal. Not a good situation.

I buy Antiques from a MA FFL. He makes me do the background check thing every time. Just like I were buying a Brand New Glock. Caution is king.

As far as Antiques go, Mass Law states Firearms manufactured in 1889 are Antiques, CONTRARY to the ATF which states clearly only BEFORE 1899. What does the extra year buy you ? A Federal Felony should you ship an 1899 Firearm across State Lines without FFL on both ends.

And the Laws in NY, IL, CA, and CT ? As bad as MA, probably worse.
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Can you cite this case? Your FFL wants to do a 4473 for an object, that's between you and him. Does he run a background check when you buy ammo or targets, too? All I said was if OP's gun is pre-'98 he's good-to-go. And he is. If the state wants to charge someone for carrying a firearm when they're not carrying a firearm, we apparently have bigger changes to make in this state than I thought.
 

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